#106, Travis Loop on the waterloop and water news

Welcome to Talk With Water. The pod gas that takes a deep dive into the world of water with those making waves. My name is Todd Butler and I'm your host for Talk With Water. I'm also a principal collaborative water resolution which you can find at waterspeeds.org. In addition, I'm Edwin Cheed of Texas Plus Water and the Texas Water Journal. Both publications are free. My special guest today is Travis Loop. Travis Loop is the founder of the Water Loop and award winning nonprofit news outlet, Exploring Solutions for Sustainability of Water. Travis began his career as a newspaper reporter and returned to his passion for journalism to launch and operate the water loop. He brings more than 20 years of experience including as communications director at the US Environmental Protecting Agency, time at the Water Environment Federation and the Chesapeake Bay Program. He was also a speech writer for the Governor of Hawaii I have to know a little bit more about that because that sounds like a good job. Yeah. Travis, welcome to Talk With Water. Thank you for making time to talk with me. Todd, it's awesome to be here. Very happy. You came on my podcast. I'm happy to come on yours here. Texas, I cover issues all around the country and Texas has really rapidly risen up as one of my favorite places to follow what's happening with water. I've had the opportunity to visit a few times but I need to get there a lot more often because there's so many cool things going on and I'm really happy to be here. You read that resume and I think just the longer your resume gets it's a reflection of you just getting older and having a lot more experiences in the rearview mirror, right? I can, yes, I can batch for that. 100% but I mean, I've had conversations. I was going to say I've had conversations and I'm like, oh, I want to say, oh, I've worked in water and media for 25 years. Oh, my God, that just sounds old to say. So I kind of dance around it. Well, it's a unique combination of things and before we get into that specifically, I always have to start out with my guests to find out about their background of water. So when did you first become focused on a career on one? Yeah, I think water was a part of my personal life a lot longer or a lot before, a longer before it became my professional focus but it was always very important to me personally growing up actually in Maryland around the Chesapeake Bay, going to the Atlantic Ocean to the beach and then growing up a competitive swimmer. I made my choice of college based on where I could go live by the beach and be by water. So I was not thinking about career or the best place to go to school. I just wanted to be by the water. And it was actually that job that you mentioned when I was the speechwriter for the governor of Hawaii, which was a really cool demanding fun gig. But you know, in Hawaii, natural resources are a big deal. You're surrounded by water on those islands. And so it kind of crept into my work a bit there. But then my first real job when I relocated back home to Maryland was working at the Chesapeake Bay program. And that is a organization that has EPA, some other federal agencies, the six states that are in the Chesapeake Bay watershed, the District of Columbia, all part of trying to restore the Chesapeake. And that's where I started doing public affairs, media relations, communications focused on on water. You know, and then my journey then like you said took me to work for EPA in DC at the Office of Water for six years. That was an education every single day in water issues around the country. Then I went to the Water Environment Federation. They throw the big Weftech party every year for 20,000 water professionals. That's really the utility side. And I've been doing my water loop thing exclusively for for over three years now, which is incredible. And really a dream come true. Well, let's let's talk about the water loop. So, you know, one thing that it's interesting to me is, you know, you do video and audio. I'm not brave enough to have video with my audio. I'm not sure how many people I really want to see me. And whether that will really cut down on my audience if they see me. But your yours is both. And you know, I think that's the, I noticed just recently you probably noticed this Apple podcast just announced within the last week that they're adding video. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure really what that means. But it just says that, you know, that's kind of the, I guess the wave now is that even if you have a podcast, you have a video component of it, say on YouTube or something like that. And then, and then, you know, you've also got the, you know, just audio on the various platforms. But, but, you know, I don't want to preempt you, you know, tell us about the water, how you, how you came up with the idea and some of the things you're doing right now. Yeah. I mean, I kind of, I was interested in journalism and media news way back in elementary school. I tried to start a school newspaper. And my fifth grade teacher said, we don't have time for that. But I, but I didn't get discouraged. I came back to the career, did it and did it in high school. And it was my first job out of college, was newspaper reporter and editor. So I've always loved that information gathering and sharing side of things. I also always loved back in the day, if you will, driving around and listen to talk radio. You know, my local station, what's happening where they would just talk for hours or driving in the middle of the night somewhere, having a list of talk radio. So I always loved that conversation format. And then podcasting kind of had this big surge about a decade ago. And I was like, well, you know, this is kind of this blend of journalism and media and talk radio stuff I love. And then you get to also focus it on a topic that you're interested in. And I always wanted my own kind of outlet. So lots early mornings, late nights and weekends, figuring out how to build a podcast and do video and set up social media accounts and just how to put the whole puzzle together. And you know, I've been doing it over five years, three years just exclusively. And my whole focus is like, we get all the doom and gloom about water from so many sources, right? That regular media, social media, what are neighbors think? And that, you know, there's a lot of that bad stuff happening. No doubt, but it's not the full picture. There's so many successes going on. There's progress happening. There's pathways to solutions. And so I was like, let's look at the way we can address these challenges. And that's really the lens I've decided to take is that exploring solutions piece. And some people call it solutions journalism. So it is the sunny side of the street, if you will, but it's still objectively additorally credible. And I've had the fortune now over the past few years to really travel the US. And I think we've gone about 30 states with Waterloop and visited projects and people and places that are making that positive difference. And it's kind of evolved into like a documentary slash podcast mashup. Right. You know, I show these places, but I do have longer conversations within the episodes. So yeah, that's where where I'm at with it. That's a neat format. You know, I've done a few kind of, you know, on location podcasts. And every time I do one of those, I'm like, why aren't I doing this for every one of them? But, you know, I'm hoping to do more of those in the future here. You know, you've got the video component, which I really do enjoy that aspect of it. And, you know, it does, I guess, allow you to, to like show people pictures of, you know, hey, I'm standing in front of this, this pump station or, you know, here is, you know, this bay. And, you know, we're working on these issues or whatever. You know, that's that really, you know, not just the, not just the, you know, having the conversation with person, but you're there looking at it, you could, okay, you immediately get so much more information, you know, you know, more conversation. People are, you know, there's a lot of people that are dominantly visual learners. You know, and so I think that that, that resonates for sure. And, you know, honestly, it's a differentiator for me as I'm out there as there's, you know, a lot of different water podcasts now. But this is, you know, I think I'm kind of, you know, the one that's like, all right, let me get out there and do this filming piece. I am a non-profit news outlet. So, you know, I kind of depend on grants from philanthropy or even corporate sponsors to make that all possible. It's, you know, as soon as you start getting on planes and traveling and I have a filmmaker I've worked with for over three years. And so, yeah, the financial side is different, but it's worth it. - Yeah, that's the part I have not mastered yet is you know, finding sponsors and doing all that but I'm hoping to figure that out at some point. - Well, you know, I just wanna say, - I just wanna say, by the way, did you have to contact people or did you get contacted by people and just curious? - Yeah, it is more of me and some folks helping me doing that business development, doing that proactive outreach, looking for the foundations that are interested in certain places or issues or topics, looking for the companies or organizations that are interested in those same things and seeing who wants to invest in the storytelling. I think our water sector broadly talks a ton about communications and honestly, things have gone well, but I think that's an area where they should all look to invest more. They talk about it, it is critically important, you know, podcasts like yours or operations like mine. And I think there's a lot of opportunity to help boost us up more. Yeah. - Yeah, you know, that makes me think about something, you know, going back, I don't know, maybe 20 years or so, you know, there would be sometimes a communications director, you know, for the water organization that I would work for, but you know, mostly what they were doing was just kind of fielding calls from journalists and maybe setting up some interviews or giving them some answers based on what was going on, but it's, I mean, like you indicate, it's a totally different, you know, era now with that. And, you know, even if, you know, I guess maybe early on, there were a lot of water organizations, not worked from one, like didn't want its name, the newspaper, you know, we don't want people to know what we're doing. And then when you go in and you have a water project, they're like, who is this, you know, entity coming in here? - Yeah. - Once it developed this water. And so, see, it seems like that's really changed quite a bit. - You know, that you're totally right that that was the long time mindset of the water utility sector is like, let's just keep our heads down, out of sight, out of mind, like our pipes and pumps and stations, right? But that actually came to be a really backfire on the water industry because like you just invited to, people weren't really familiar with what utilities and others did for water. They only heard about it when there was bad news or something went wrong. And so also the public, that led the public to not be as supportive or, wait a minute, I wanna raise my rates, why should we do that? But there has been a massive shift and it's still underway across this country, across Texas in utilities taking a much more proactive marketing, customer outreach type approach. One of the things I wanted to mention today was just give a shout out to the San Antonio water system. I think they're one of the utilities out there in the country that's really focused on that. Education, outreach, communication piece. There's other good ones in Texas for sure, but I've just known them for a while. And so that's kind of where things are going. And I think you're starting to see public sentiment kind of come along with it a little bit. People are realizing the importance of water. Spurred also by some of the crises that we've had, right? Just even like drought in Texas, right? Well, you know, an example, I mean, there are multiple examples that demonstrate that the public has responded. And the latest in Texas is, we'll talk about here in a little while, is the $20 billion that this voters have approved, a billion dollars every year for 20 years starting in 2007, for water infrastructure and new water projects. And so, you know, that passed with flying colors. And Texas in the past, you know, that might, I mean, there were votes like that for example, the '68 water plan to fund that, which failed. And so, you know, having, you know, you mentioned Santero water system, but you know, having looked in that region when that organization was really trying to educate the public about water issues. And, you know, having seen what also El Paso water has done. You know, you know, it's real, you know, key element to me about water management now, if you're a large municipal water organization, is that, you know, hey, you know, people need to know what you're doing and they need to know why the rates might need to go up because of all these, you know, things that you're trying to handle in terms of your infrastructure and, you know, how complicated that is and, you know, the weather is playing a big role in it. And so, you know, I think that's a, you know, that's been a real benefit to the water sector is it's kind of like, you know, kind of like coming out of the shadows, you know, in a lot of ways and saying, hey, you know, we want you to know what we're doing. And have a, you know, have an insight into where we're going. Yeah. And, and, you know, educating the media proactively too, you know, like that's something that's talked about a ton is like, don't just try to call up a reporter when there's a bad story out there, right? Like get them, get the media to come and just tore your facilities and see what's going on when times are quiet. So they understand and so they can trust you and they can turn to you when something's breaking. Like, that's key. And I'd also say, I think there's an opportunity for companies that aren't necessarily water utilities but that are big water users or have a big influence on water since people are so concerned about it to tell their sustainability stories around it as well. And get some good will, if you will. Yeah. I've seen actually examples where there were a whole series of debates and newspaper articles on a certain facility. And then when we finally took people out to see it and totally changed the discussion after that because they assume it was this huge facility and, you know, was, you know, shifting the direction of the river and you know, doing things like that and then turned out to that. Now it's really very small. So there's a real advantage in doing that. Yeah. No, absolutely. And again, I think that that stuff's, you know, it's happening around the country but it's definitely happening there in Texas. It's good to see. And I think that some of like the large statewide organizations also are doing a great job of raising the profile of water in Texas, like the Texas Water Foundation. This idea that slogan, Texas runs on water. I love that. It sure is true. Right? When you look at what underpins so much of the economy. So yeah, it's exciting times. Positive stuff again. Like I like to focus on. Great. And so kind of, you know, stepping back a little bit. Are there specific water subjects across the country that the water loop focuses on? Hmm. You know, I like to, I like to, I'm interested in anything that water touches really. You know, I'm a water guy. I think it's all fascinating. I think it's all connected. But in the utility space, there's a phrase this one water. And I think a lot of times that means drinking water, waste water, store water, hey, this is all connected. We have to manage it holistically. But water certainly goes far beyond that, right? We have, we have water sheds and rivers and lakes and the water cycle. We engage with water in so many other ways than turning on our faucet or flushing our toilet. You know, we go out fishing, we go out paddling, whatever it might be. So I love to, I love to really look at all aspects of water. Coastal resilience. You know, I've been on farms in Iowa looking at how they reduce the flooding or the nutrient runoff off their fields. You know, Ben and the Central Valley in California where people are having to kind of get help with their wells so they can get down deep enough to hit the groundwater. Coastal resilience here in North Carolina, how are they putting in living shorelines to deal with these stronger storms that we're getting? So really every aspect that water touches, I'm interested in and have done something on. But I think given my background at EPA and at WEF, you know, I have a strong, a strong core around municipal and industrial water treatment. You know, those are the places that the water cycle is almost interrupted, if you will. It goes through those users to either get used or treated or touched in some way. And those are such critical moments for water and impact all those other parts I was talking about. So that seems to be a real strong lane for me. That's where there is a lot of interest in, from the funding side too. And in that storytelling is around kind of again, the water treatment, the actual hard management of water, if you will. Yeah, that's kind of a look at it. It's everywhere, but that's one of the strong pillars. Well, I'm glad that you do focus on that. I see a tendency for a lot of the focus to be on water projects, right? Because there's a, you know, where your ride loves a good fight. And, you know, the critical worth is going on all the time with your own treating drinking water and treating wastewater kind of gets, you know, pushed to the back of the line. And a lot of the things that you hear and you read regarding water. No, absolutely, but they, you know, like I said, that's when you talk about pollutants in the get in the water somehow, that is that's how we clean our water. Flat out. That's it. It's a drinking water plant, a wastewater plant. Maybe there's some nature-based stuff out there that helps as well. Certainly, wetlands filter water and, you know, nature does it. But like, you know, when it comes to the everyday turn of our society in this country, you know, it's those facilities, tens of thousands of them in communities everywhere that are cleaning that water and then returning it to the environment, returning it to our cities and towns. And industry has such a huge impact. They are massive users of water, manufacturing oil and gas production, whatever it might be, data centers now, right? So what's happening at those facilities in how they are cleaning water or, you know, contaminating that water or how much are they using, how much are they returning? So I think that big infrastructure has such a critical role on water in every other way. Yeah, I tell you, somebody kicked a horn as nests. I mean, you can't turn around and not see something about data centers now. Yeah. And I mean, that's a whole conversation we could have, right? I mean, it certainly connects to Texas. I think you guys have a big boom in data centers, including in that corridor between San Antonio and Austin, where everything's getting built. I also think, and this is something that's frustrating me, is there's a real lack of accurate information on just how much water data centers are using. What is the spectrum of use? Are they really using a lot? Are they really using a little? How is that trending? How do they use water? And when there's a, when there's a lack of information, then misinformation, disinformation, or rumors, speculation, they fill that void. And so it's something that I want to do more research on personally, is like, okay, what's the truth here? And I think that those big tech giants, kind of by being so cryptic, are shooting themselves in the foot on that front. And they could probably serve themselves better with some transparency. I know there's proprietary stuff around how data centers are set up, and certainly data itself is sensitive. But I think kind of the black box around those is really hurting the reputation. And they should be more proactive on that front. I'm trying to get in one myself to film, right? And that is just a no-go. It's really hard to make that happen. Yeah, yeah, it's hard to make that happen. So we'll just put the call out here again. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of noisy. Oh really? Oh, okay. Yeah. They might not. Yeah, yeah. I haven't heard much other than just images of cabinets and cabinets of computers. To go along with that, I know that they are ultra concerned about their water footprint, and about this PR disaster that they have on their hands. I know that if anybody can solve, efficient, can get more efficient. If they can go to closed loop, if they can go to no water cooling, figuring that out, companies like X and Google and Meta and Amazon, they're the ones that can do it, and they're on a mission to do it. So bring us collectively along with you on that journey. That's kind of how I feel about it. If they hired me to do comms. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot more that needs to be shared with the public, but I'll just mention two studies have just come out recently in Texas on data centers and water. One is from the Houston area, Advanced Research Center, and the Houston Advanced Research Center, and then the University of Texas at Austin's Cockrole School, the engineering school. They both put out reports here in the last couple of weeks about water use in data centers. The state is actually, I'm seeing what the authority is for this, but there's a news headline I just saw recently that the state of Texas is going to acquire data centers to start reporting their water use. So that's a good way to pivot directly into Texas and your work in Texas, because you do have content that you've created related to Texas. Yeah. Well, I'll be interested to follow that regulation. It makes sense that a major water user needs to kind of let folks know what's going on. Yeah, like I said, I've had the fortune of coming to Texas a few times, but not fortunate to be there enough. So I definitely hope to change that. Laws the place. It's not quite the time of year. That's true. That's true. Well, one of my, you know, I was there on like a roasting 98 degree day in Austin, and that Barton Springs felt incredible. That was great. So a couple of the specific stories that I've done by visiting and filming, one was about Texas Springs. And I know you're really connected to this issue. And just like what's the state of them, especially in that central Texas area, Hill Country, if you will. And what's impacted them and what's being done about it. And so I went to Austin and visited Barton Springs. And then also kind of made my way. Gosh, Jacob's well out there. And then I think there's also San Marcos, kind of the Springs there. So you've got three, three different situations. And it really struck me how because of basically an endangered salamander or a little lizard, right, they're able to keep, manage or regulate the water. I think in the Edwards aquifer, you can correct me here when I forget things wrong, that keeps Barton Springs just, you know, able to be full and usable by people, right. And then I go out, then I go out to Jacob's well. And gosh, I can't remember when I was, it was about a year and a half ago. So it's like October of 24. And it's just a stagnant, yucky puddle. Right. And then as a water person and someone likes exploring, that was a major bummer that I did not get to jump in that thing and enjoy it. But it also, you know, I think reflected a lot of the strain on the groundwater in that area. Massive development happening. I think a lot of leaky infrastructure. So that was incredible. And then I finished down there at San Marcos and met with, you know, the indigenous folks, the Koala Tekken. I think I got, I think I get that right. And that was just, that was really, first of all, it's beautiful, incredible water, just the clarity and the watercolor, stunning. But then the spiritual side of it was really incredible, hearing their story and their, their creation story and their connection to those springs of Texas. So, again, I was amazed at like this incredible resource for recreation and culture that Texas has. And how there wasn't more of a broad effort to protect them and make them more resilient and keep those suckers full, you know. So, yeah, that was, that was some of my experience there. Thoughts? Yeah, I was going to say, so, you know, I worked on the adverse offer issues, you know, for a number of years related to maintaining spring flow for the endangered species at San Marcos Springs and Komal Springs, which is the larger says springs. And, you know, they have their own fish, the fountain daughter. It was springs and they have a number of salamanders and they got Texas Wild Rice in San Marcos and an extinct fish at San Marcos again, buzi up. And then a number of other, you know, species associated with those springs that were that were listed as threatened or endangered. And, you know, the management of the Edwards aquifer, at least the, you know, the Santana segment of it is, is based in part on the judgment and the federal endangered species at case called Sierra Clever's that's how I got really evolved in water and Texas, I was working for the special master in that case. And, you know, when you go to the Barton Springs situation, that's a water quality related case, the SA case that resulted in Barton Springs being preserved. And so both of those systems now, you mentioned Jacob's well, you know, all of those systems I think are suffering quite a bit right now. I know at least come all the same, our springs are very low and Jacob's well, I don't think it's flowing again. And you know, we're heading to a potential reckoning this year with regard to that because the springs have started at such a depleted level that, you know, if we have a, we have a really hot and dry summer, we'll have a crisis at the springs. And so, opening that doesn't happen. But, you know, oddly enough, not because of the condition of those springs, but because of some proposed pipelines taking groundwater from East Texas to Dallas that has resulted in the Texas House Natural Resources Committee taking a look at the rural capture. Which you mentioned earlier. And so we just had a hearing and interim hearing here last week on that subject about the rural capture and, you know, what the result of its been and how it impacts groundwater management. And so, you know, it seems like, you know, there is a revised, you know, I guess kind of interest in the legislature to see if something needs to be done there. And what's triggered that is, you know, the concerns of people in the local communities who are where the large groundwater transfer projects would originate from. And then that water might go to Dallas or something like that. So, so that has resulted in a new round or maybe a new phase in the state's evaluation of how we manage groundwater. And that phrase groundwater transfer strikes me as dangerous. You know, it's like, wait a minute. I just, you just see so many lessons around the country and in Texas of what happens when you start, you know, overtapping your groundwater. We're talking about one right now with just the health of the springs. But, you know, you start to, like I mentioned in California, you start to have communities that don't have water because the groundwater is gone. And that does not seem like the best way to come up with quote, new water at all. You guys, you guys have one of the best examples of that in the country. Water and El Paso, what is underway there with a going direct, potable reuse. So treating their wastewater to such a pristine, pure level that it is going to go right back into the drinking water supply. And it's going to be the first permanent community in the United States to do that. And I think that's coming on, you know, later this year, next year or so when it's going to kind of get going. And that is a, that is a shining example for the country because that's, that's how you kind of create new water in a way without having to bring groundwater from some other community or build some crazy reservoir and hope at rains. You just keep reusing the, cleaning the water and reusing that water that's right in front of you. And the science and the technology is so proven and so established on how we can clean water. You know, it's what, what astronauts have been doing on the space station for 25 years, you know, they say today's coffee is tomorrow's coffee if you get that. So, well, you know, that's 10 million gallons a day that, yeah, the pure water center is going to produce. And I was, I was just trying to, to page through and remember which episode it was, but I did an episode on that here a few months ago. And, you know, hopefully I'll find it, episode never here while I'm putting around, but, you know, that, that place will be, I think it'll be an example and they're setting it up so that, you know, people can, they can really show people what's going on there. I think, you know, it's going to be an example for all across the country. And, you know, my, my thinking is every major city in Texas in 20 years will have one like that. I agree. I agree. It's a necessity. You know, yeah, I think it's going to give them about 25% of their demand, right? So they're going to get 25% of their water from just recycling their water. I just did a, just finished a seven part series on water recycling in California. And obviously they have extensive projects underway, but Texas is beating them as far as having the first, you know, direct reuse facility. But I mean, California is, I don't even say betting big because it's proven they are investing big in this supply. And I agree with you 100% that like Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio should all be starting those plans right now, right? Episode 91. And I spoke to Gilbert Trejo and Christina Montoya Halter about that project out in El Paso. And so I'm hoping someday I can wrangle an invitation to go out and see it. Yeah. Well, maybe I'll meet you out there, you know, when they flip the, flip the faucets on. Oh, that'd be fun. We could meet up and do a little joint conversation. I'd be that pleased. Right. Right. So we'll get you on camera. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'll switch over. I mean, I, you know, I don't know. I interview a lot of beautiful people. I mean, I tell you. I'm like, I'm looking at, you know, I can see him of course because in the way I record this, you know, you see me, I see you so I can like give you signals or something. We need to short some up or do something like that. But all the people I have on, you're like, you know, they're, you know, they're good looking folks. And so I probably should, should be doing the video. So we'll see. I don't know. We'll see. I'm going to think about it. There you go. Anything else related to Texas that you want to share with us? Well, the other one, my other kind of big adventure was going to Houston and learning about that incredible history of land subsidence. Yeah. From the first half of the 1900s, you know, into maybe the first three quarters of the 1900s, all the groundwater pumping getting to that topic, right? That happened. And because they're coastal and because the aquifers are different, right? The aquifer inland, let's say in San Antonio or Austin, it's going to hold its shape, if you will, right? The shape of that bucket. But on the coast, it's just like layers. And so what happened when they pumped the groundwater is all that stuff just compacted and settled and and Houston sank. And it was really fascinating to visit one of the communities that sank by over 10 feet. I think it's called Baytown. And you know, they had to leave. They had abandoned that neighborhood and turned it into a nature park. And then very interesting to see how, you know, the subsidence district, I think it's the Harris Galveston subsidence district, you know, was created in the 70s to really combat this subsidence. And okay, what's the science here? What are the solutions and, you know, talking to them and talking to the USGS and learning about, all right, we got to get off groundwater and we got to get on surface water because otherwise we're going to just literally, you know, destroy the city right from underneath our feet. And they've got all the data that shows that that worked, you know, and that where they have switched to surface water, the subsidence, the sinking of the land has stopped. Of course, Houston is booming and continues to grow. And the area is where they haven't made that switch yet. You still have in the subsidence. They have plans to switch to surface water, so that's good. And I think the other part was that's, I visited, I think it's their northeast purification plant that Houston water runs, the city runs, which is one of the biggest upgrades of infrastructure I've ever been in. You know, they're expanding up to, it's a couple billion dollar project. Didn't have the, I think it's like a two billion dollar project. They're basically building a whole new plant that can produce 380 million gallons a day of drinking water and ship it all over the region. So that's the kind of investments you have to make to kind of be sustainable in this day and age. It was really interesting seeing all the different players involved, right? You have these people that work at a nature park. You've got the subsidence district, you've got the heavy utility. folks and engineers and everyone kind of working on that story. So that was that was a pretty cool what I got to do too. Yeah, the you know, the whole mindset here in Texas in regard to to water infrastructure, you know, has changed so radically over the last couple of decades. And of course, particularly the last few years, it's really accelerated. But, but you know, people really now are focused on, hey, you know, we want to fix our leaking water infrastructure because it's hard to find water elsewhere, right? That's inexpensive. And so, you know, the lesson is finally, you know, you know, sunk in that look, make the most of what you have, right? That's, I mean, what El Paso is doing, you're reusing their waters, as much as they can. It's another example of that. And so, so I'm very hopeful with regard to all that and and I'm hoping to see more water markets. There you go. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Well, you know, you got to give that connects back to what you said earlier in the conversation about the $20 billion voter approved, you know, investment over over the years ahead. That's really a pretty unprecedented around the country. You know, that's a that's a big bold move that had pretty unilateral, if you will, bipartisan, whatever support. So credit to the leaders in Texas, credits to the politicians and credit to the people for making that investment. It's going to be key to kind of all the things we we talked about here. Well, hopefully other states will take a look at that. Maybe maybe follow suit. We'll see. So, hey, what are some of your upcoming features that you're planning for this year? I mean, I know we're into this year, but there's a lot of it left. Good, good question. Well, I'm doing a couple series that are still in kind of pre-production and lining up all the support that are not in Texas, but there's things I love to do in Texas, people are interested. Real quick, I'd love to do something on the Rio Grande at some point. I'd love to do a trip down the Trinity from kind of Dallas to the Gulf. And I'd love to do something out in West Texas around the Permanian Basin and the opportunities around produced water. So I'll just throw those out there. Stuff I have coming up. I'm doing a thank you. I'm doing an extensive series on municipal water efficiency in Colorado. So I'm going to be traveling around to like a dozen communities across the state and looking at the things they've done in recent years to really treat conservation as supply. So they're not, they can't make more water fall out of the sky. So they're focusing on efficiency as a way to kind of boost their supply. So super excited for that to film that series in May and start getting it out in the middle of the year. I'm also working to put together a series called Day in the Life where I'm going to be embedding with water utility workers for their shift. So I will actually go with a drinking water operator for his shift. I'll go with a sewer collection system person for their shift, et cetera, et cetera, all at my local utility here in Wilmington, North Carolina to show like what these people do every day. And just what goes into bringing people, you know, clean water. And the third one I'm working on is around lead service lines. You know, we have millions and millions of these lead lines in the country that run from the water main in the street to people's homes. Lead is toxic, especially for young kids. And there's been a big effort for the past decade after the Flint, Michigan crisis to try to get these out of the ground. EPA has a lot of regulatory actions where the next decade is going to be key for meeting those deadlines. So I'm working on a series to go around and look at the communities that have taken on this issue, learn from what they've done, and look at how that all is going to be accelerated in the years ahead. So those are a couple of the big series that I'm working on right now. Well, that's a great list right there. Yeah. And I like how you work it. You said you're going to call Roddo right? Yes, sir. And so I like, you know, hey, places that are really scenic and fun to visit, they have water. I mean, I mean, I mean, I cannot, this is truly a, I've been really lucky and fortunate and it's been a dream getting to kind of go around and physically see the places. Like I said, that dip in Barton Springs is like one of the top of the list moments. Like that was incredible. That one always stays in my memory. So there's a lot of beautiful water, waterplaces out there for sure. Good deal. Well, I'm going to ask you before we wrap up a couple of kind of bigger picture questions here. All right. So what emerging trends do you see within the war community right now? That's the first one. And interesting. I didn't prep, I didn't prep for this. So I would say, or you might have to edit the gap for a second. One of the big solutions I'm seeing or sorry, one of the big trends I'm seeing is around nature-based solutions. This idea that we're not going to just use big heavy gray infrastructure pipes and pumps and that sort of thing to deal with our water challenges, but that we actually have to use nature itself. So this is like from simple green infrastructure stuff in cities like bioswales or rain gardens or permeable pavement, permeable surfaces, you know, recreating wetlands, recreating living shorelines. So using kind of nature as a compliment like a green and gray blend is something you're seeing a lot, not just the utility space, but in the kind of the environment conservation side, even agriculture, tapping into nature-based solutions. There's a big trend of focusing on people and the needs of people and the impacts on people in water projects. A lot of times in the past, whatever the organization or government agency would just kind of go ahead and do their thing, but there is a big shift towards involving communities and individuals from the start and throughout a process so that a water project really meets their needs and the daily lives in those places. That's a big trend. I'm seeing a big trend around multi-benefit projects. So how is what we're going to do? Clean the water. How does it beautify a community? How does it help the local economy? So people are looking for these kind of like win-win-win opportunities with the water projects they're doing. I don't want to use the word sustainability or resilience because those are vague, but those are out there a lot. And then going back to our conversation now, I mean AI, how is AI not going to impact water in the form of data centers, but how can the water sector use AI to actually improve how it's managing water or how it's planning projects? That is like white hot right now. That's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to figure that out myself. Those are all great trends. I'm especially glad to hear that you're hearing more about nature-based solutions because I've heard a lot about those and there seem to be a lot of interest in those in recent years and that maybe it cooled off, but I'm glad to hear that you're seeing that people are revisiting that again. Yeah. I hear you like things are hot for a little bit and they cool off, but I think that there is a pretty fundamental realization that nature knows how to manage water, you know, how to store it, how to clean it, all that kind of thing better than we do and let's use it as an ally. So maybe some of the buzz and chatter isn't as hot, but it is I think it's become really ingrained and a lot of the approach out there. Well, last question here before, you know, we wrap up. Any thoughts on how you characterize kind of the current state of water management in the United States? It's that a, I think we're at a really big transition as we all were so many things in our society, you know, kind of moving from the analog era and almost an industrial era to this digital tech innovative 21st century. Again, that's kind of a broad societal shift and I think that that's reflected in how water management is changing also. I think what comes along with that is, you know, we made a lot of progress from the early 70s with the Clean Water Act and the Drinking Water Act and then that kind of stalled out maybe over the past decade or so and now people are like, okay, what's the next iteration of how we get progress going again? What have we learned? And how do we move that ahead? And I think that there there's been a lot of crises, right? They say never let a good crisis go to waste. - No, no. - Yeah. And I think that, you know, people have seen Flint. People have seen the drought in California. They've seen the drought in Texas. They've seen these devastating coastal storms, like Katrina or like Haleen that hit the mountains of North Carolina and caused devastating flooding. I mean, you know, unfortunately, the terrible situation in Texas Hill Country last year. People are hearing about these forever chemicals, PFAS, they're hearing about microplastics. So I think that there is a heightened awareness of the challenges that we face with water and therefore a heightened public awareness of like, we need to do more to care for this resource. And so that's all, all that stuff's kind of colliding to shape this new era that I think we're just kind of stepping into. - That's a great assessment, 11. - Yeah. - Yeah. So we've reached our final question, Travis. How can our listeners find out more about the end viewers? I guess we don't have yet, but you get your. - How can people find out more about the water loop in your work? - Yeah, I mean, I'm on the social medias, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, you can follow me there. Waterloop.org is the website, you can go to YouTube and look up Waterloop and you can go to Apple and Spotify and look up the Waterloop podcast. So anyway, you prefer to consume your info, you should be able to get it. And every one of those listeners or comments or likes or downloads is the goal that keeps me going. - Yeah, yeah, I understand that. That's great. - Well, I really enjoyed this and we'll have to find it an opportunity to get together in Texas. Absolutely, when I get down there next, I'll look you up or we can plan something around El Paso or whatever it might be, I think it's fun. I super enjoyed talking to you. One of the most informed people on water I know, and I'm like, all right, if I need to know something happening in Texas with water, Todd's the guy to ask. So, oh my gosh. I do not ask you to say that. - I knew you didn't, but it's true. - You're not being paid for any kind of enforcement. - Thank you, that's what was the kind of you say that. - Yeah, yeah. But, and my final word is like, just generally, like I think there's a lot of parts of the country that are sleeping on what's happening in Texas with water and they should kind of tune in. So, great. Well, hey, they can do that by listening to Tockless Water. - That's it. - There you go, there you go. Travis, thanks for joining me. - I really enjoyed it. - Yeah, I appreciate it, so much fun, thank you. - This has been Tockless Water, and my guest today was Travis Luthe, the founder of Water Luthe, and award winning non-profit news outlet, Exploring Solutions for Sustainability in Water. I wanna thank you, the listener, for spending your valuable time on this podcast. Finally, I wanna give a big thank you to Anna Jones and Sarah Wingfield at the Meadows Center for Water and the Environment at Texas State University for getting each episode of Tockless Water, Raid of Flow. If you enjoyed our discussion today, please subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review to let us know how we did. This is Todd Boeber, let's talk water again soon.