#1054 - Bryan Johnson - The 2026 Immortality Protocol

Good news, I'm going back on tour with a brand new live show in Australia, New Zealand and Bali. If you are interested in learning how to overcome imposter syndrome, reach your goals while not missing your entire life, my perspective on where true confidence comes from, everything I've ever discovered about discipline, plus brand new insight that I've never spoken about on the podcast, then join me on stage as I explore all of these topics with you and you can get involved during an extensive Q&A where we work through the biggest questions that you have. Right now, Perth and Brisbane are completely sold out, but there are still tickets available for Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Christchurch, Auckland and Bali and you can get yours right now by going to the link in the description below or heading to Chris Williamson.live. Sorry to report, I have a new boner record, three hours, 49 minutes. The fellowship of the ring is three hours, 48 minutes. Is that a good thing? I mean, I guess from whose perspective? Pick. Yeah, your perspective? Is it good for you? Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's substantially better than an elite 18-year-old. What would an elite boner 18-year-old be? Around two hours and 45 minutes. What refers to elite, like vasodilation, like. Yeah, like take an 18-year-old in peak condition. And let's say what would the nighttime erections be? They'd probably hover somewhere around like high to nearly three hours. That'd be a elite level. And so it just crushes that level. So yeah, I mean, from a pure biological capacity, yeah, it's pretty good. Okay. What were you doing with it? Three hours, 49 minutes. So this is. It's kind of like it's news to people as I've been sharing this, that I mean, people. Then are generally familiar with the idea that when you are 12, 13, 14, you start having boners and they happen a lot, you know, like in class, you don't even ask for it. Gustave wind. Yeah, Gustave wind. Literally anything and you can't do anything about it. Hey, whoa. I mean, do you remember that I would walk in between classes and it's like, you got a boner? How's it going to go? We're going to go. We're going to tuck it into the waistband. Pull it up. Pull it up. You exactly put a little book cover in front of it. But like, you can't control it. You can't really stop it. And then as you age, those things naturally go down. So people kind of forget about it as a phenomena. But men and women have arousal cycles every night, three to five erections every night. Men get erect. Women have their clitoris and gorge. And so it's this natural process. The body says like, I want to keep my sexual function alive and vibrant and it pulls it every night. And so it depends upon your quality of sleep, your metabolic health, your cardiovascular health, your physiological health, and your hormone health. And so if those things are not in place, it doesn't happen. And so if someone's bragging about four hours of sleep a night, and like they feel fine, they're doing great. They have no boners. It's a. It's a. You might have survived with the sleep, but your erection wasn't there. This is why I started talking about these things. We were measuring a whole bunch of stuff. But I was really, right now, sleep deprivation is high status, right? If you can basically flex and say, I only need to sleep four hours a night. I'm amazing. I work 18 hours a day. People are like, oh my god, what an amazing person. We admire you so much. So it has this really weird, high status. So this frame of the boners makes sleep deprivation low status, right? It's like, sure, you can brag about that thing. But also, your body has shut down its sexual function, and you can no longer get boners. And so it's really like. That was one angle. The other one is like the erections really are one of the most representative biomarkers of overall health that you can have big muscles and you can have great skin. And if your boners are not there, then, you know, your body's not in a good shape. He's saying that night time erections are like the weather vein or the canary in the coal mine that's an aggregate ton of other shit that's going on. Exactly right. Yeah. It basically is a representative marker. And you can't do anything about it. You can't go to the gym and work out your boners, right? You can't pump iron. You go to sleep. It either happens or it doesn't. You have no control over it. So it's just really great marker. But what you mean is you have no control over making it happen at the time, but you do have control over your health, which is going to be indicative of whether or not that does happen in future. So you could go to the gym and do a ton of zone two, which I imagine improves cardiovascular health, and then make it some more boners. Exactly right. Yeah. But otherwise, when you lay down and you close your eyes, it's just like you say a prayer and it's like, I hope they happen. You can think of Lord of Rings all of you one, but it's not going to happen. Exactly. The company that does this, the makes this device, they've got a 20,000 night data set. And my scores just like trounce everybody in the data set. Okay. And so we've worked very hard. Is that the thing you're most proud of? You know what? It really is. I know it's like a in our society, people hear that and they blush like, oh my God, that's so, you know, like, why are you talking about that? But like, it's like a biological function. It has them, like we as a species, our primary biological objective is to reproduce. It's like, it's on point with what our DNA is meant to do. And it also is like the most counter-culture thing you can be doing because we have this culture that has high status relative to sleep deprivation and have niche lifestyle, drinking a lot, doing addictive things, nicotine, vaping. So it really is like counter to all those things, trying to say those are actually low status. This is high status. So it's trying to change the moral narrative on like what do you aspire to and what really is a flex? Great point. It's a weird, trades like that. I think most people understand if you're smoking particularly cigarettes, if you're drinking very regularly, if you overweight. These are, there are visual markers right now that also suggest you're probably going to be pretty fucked down the line. Sleep deprivation is one of these weird inversions of that where you're rewarded for the sleep deprivation in the moment and the costs are pushed further down the line. I guess it would be like a birth rate decline, like you don't see it because the population can be getting bigger even while the birth rate is getting smaller because people live longer and then this thing drops off a cliff or a climate change. You can continue to do it and continue to do it and continue to do it until you reach some point where you can no longer handle it. It's like going bankrupt, gradually and then suddenly, slightly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're right to call out the fact that there's this sort of pedestalization of it. I think about, especially watching you who is now the tip of the spear of sort of, you're the canonical example in basically no time at all. You know, it would have been back in the day like a Ben Greenfield and then it would have been a terror, a human and I guess these guys all have their own pockets, right? You're like hard longevity now moving into culture with like limited balance on I'm just doing what it takes to be as healthy as possible. Yeah. Anyway, everyone's got their own little pockets. You've become the canonical example. What I've seen is this sort of the spiral is getting tighter and tighter and tighter of movement, counter movement, counter, counter movement, counter, counter, counter, so we don't know that sleep's important. Matthew Walker comes out and says, she'd watch how much you sleep. That was the first time I ever learned about it, right? And I think we'd be right to say he was close to this sort of front modern push of that. Then that lasts for a good while and we get back to, well, you know, like the cursel and grime culture can come back in and take over and then you get back to, you know, this is really, really fucking important and it'll improve your performance right now. And now we've already gone back to like the next iteration of the hustle and grind culture which is much more of a pushback against overoptimization. So there was this is important. Fuck off. No, it's not hustle and grind. You will perform better if you do sleep well and also you should consider your sleep which is an elevated version of the first one. Fuck off. You're overoptimizing. Like we can just do it ourselves. But do you know what I mean? You know, this ping pong. And it's like also, I mean, I'm waging a medical warfare, right? And so like this is the classical thing that has always been done for our history is you take a given moral value in society. If you don't like that, that thing has power, you invert it, right? So this is like a Christianity would say the meek and herithia earth, right? So this is like a counter to the rich and powerful have the ability to push everyone around and do as they please. And so you can't really combat that. So if you can't compete on strength, you compete on virtue. So you invert that, right? And so this has been done through religions has been done through all kinds of cultural norms. And so this is, I'm trying to basically do the same thing to death culture. And so death culture is, you know, we power wealth and status are the primary objectives of our society. We will do anything for power, wealth and status, including killing ourselves. And killing yourself for power, wealth and status is actually a virtue, right? Like you're a hero, you're on the heroes journey, if you do this thing. And so to combat that, you have to take that, which is high status and make it low status. And so the way you punch away at that is you do the thing where it's like, if you get four hours of sleep a night, you have no boners, right? If you don't have a boner, are you a man, right? And the same thing is for women, you know, like same cycle. And then you can also say, you know, if you're not well rested, if you don't have good nourishment, if you're not exercising, you have functional IQ, 10 to 12 points, lower, in the full standard deviation. So it's actually making you dumb, right? And like, what, what do people care about more in that high status place than their intellect, right? Their ability to actually maybe only after that would be their erections. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, there's, it's so primal. It's like how smart am I? Like, how sexually, um, formidable ever person, right? Like, like, that's, that's who we are as these animals. And so I'm trying to take those high status things, bump them down to low status and invert the arc. And otherwise, when you make these like, um, good nature, like sleep, because it's good for you, no one gives a fuck. You have to hit the heart of power, because unless you pick to, to speak to power, wholesome status directly, nobody's going to change anything because they're locked in on the goal. They've been taught to pursue, which is like, I care about my status in the tribe. I don't want to be ostracized. I want high status and high respect and high power, which is I can get. Which is, it talked to me about power wealth and status. Is there a hierarchy to you? Is the one which is most addictive than the rest? Is there a sequence that people seem to move through on that evolution to wipe themselves, rid themselves of the slime? Yeah. You can just jump into groups and just see it. So cleanly, like, for example, I spent some time in DC recently, they're, they're not after wealth. I mean, you can get wealthy being in DC, but that's not the primary objective. You're really after connections and power and status within that community. Whereas in Silicon Valley, it's really about wealth creation, right? Like, that's like the ultimate objective. And so different communities have different levers. Uh, I'm impartial to whatever they are. Like ultimately, people are trying to, people playing this game are trying to superimpose their view on the world, right? They're trying to muscle in and reorganize the world to somehow be trained by their mental models of existence. And whether that's done through a product or their philosophy or their presence or their personality, but everyone's trying to wrestle, wrestle like their memetic essence onto the world. What do you make of the Harvard longevity study? I'm sure that you've become familiar with this. The world's longest running study on other life and happiness. And it does have some sort of longevity, life span, health span predictions in there. Given that that's been going already for such a long time and has had a huge data set, right? I think it's like 80,000 more. What's your perspective on that given what you're interested in? I mean, there's probably some truisms on like humans respond favorably to having robust relationships. Like that's true. Long ago, it's true now, uh, humans respond favorably to exercise. There's a lot of truisms like we know this shit, truly, you know, the case. But I think it's like what may be interesting about this is, uh, that is a good retrospective study. I'm not sure all of it's going to carry over into the future. So in the, in the coming years, if we figure out some of these, uh, new therapies to rejuvenate ourselves in ways we couldn't before, it may be an entirely different environment in which we look at long-lived species and it may be less about those things and more about other things. Now, this is not to say that relationships are going away. It's not to say that fundamentals of like, uh, being active, they're going away. But I do think we're at a moment in time where in, if you have that study going on and we're talking in 1960s, we'd be like, yep, good data. Just carry on, but being in 2025, where AI is now starting to make novel discoveries, I think the landscape is going to be very different. What are the specific differences that are going to have the most lever behind them? I mean, we, there's an open question like, what is AI in our lives? Like is AI a relationship or not? Uh, do we have human relationships like what are the contours of those things? What do longevity therapies do for us if we start playing around with gene therapies? What is it also? I mean, for example, look at those, like these GLP ones, you, you put it, you take a shot. It alters your experience with hunger, like it changes a fundamental part of being human. And so if we have the ability to change something so like fundamental to our essence and we get really good at drug design, like what else are we going to change? So I'm talking about this on like a 10, 15, 20 year time scale. This is not like next two or three years, but still like, we are in this open frontier where there may be maybe some things that continue as universalisms that just as a bilateral species. They're true. But also, uh, it's like a radical change and I'm more interested in like what is going to be different than what has been. Hmm. Yeah. Uh, Morgan Hausel spoke the same as ever, uh, is an interesting one that people try to predict the future. But what is easier is to work out the stuff that's not going to change moving forward because the future is as yet undetermined, but working out what from the past can be predicted. Yeah. It's quite nice. Um, there is this sense, right? Everybody's had the sense that our generation, we are the one, it's the inflection point, it's the precipice, it's right now, it's always right now because it always just feel like that, right? If you look at a hockey curve, that graph at each point, it was the highest, most rapidly ascending, biggest, quickest, moving point ever. And then you just pull it along a little bit and then it zooms out and you go, oh, that was nothing. Yeah. But now, now it, and then you zoom out and you're going to go, but now, yeah. Sure. Yeah. I read, um, I just finished 1929, but the stock market crashed also tripping on Utopia and also a history of Western thought. I finished those three books last week. And like the, the theme that comes through is that humans replay the same actual play every generation. It's the same cast of characters. It's the same archetypes. It's the same arguments and they just roll through different ideological spaces. But it's the same dynamics. And so we experience this moment, like you're saying, like, we think it's novel and unique. And we imagine we're something that's pivotal, but really, like, it's just the same thing. It's really very humbling because then it goes back to like, how much of your lived experience is NPC and how much of it is truly novel? And then I have to, like, concede probably 99% of my lived experience as NPC. I probably have one shot, a novel thought or like, you know, it's just, it's just, it's the state of play. And it's very hard to get outside of that. But once you realize that it's some way, it's somehow relieving that that's the case. But also challenging. You have to figure like, how do I pull myself out and try to find moments of sobriety to see what this moment is? Yeah. This is, again, speaking of the Christian piece, the, the meek, the sort of humility, the you're less special than you think you are. It's grounding in that way. I don't think British people need more of that. Maybe Americans do. We're already going. God, I love the Brits. I love how, I love how, um, honoree they are, and brutally honest and acrimonious. And I find, I, I do, I find the, those personality traits be so charming. Hmm. Well, I think everybody misses what they don't have, right? Americans would probably quite like a little bit more piss-taking and being brought back down to earth and British people want a little bit more enthusiasm and encouragement. Yeah. Why, I came over here as, oh my god, it's like being, you know, taking a drink and not knowing I was thirsty, I was so nourished by this, and then for you, it's like, I've always wanted someone to tell me I'm a prick. Like, I, you know, if you're finally these people, say it to me straight, um, I'm interested, you know, sort of relating to the Harvard longevity thing, um, from the outside, a lot of what you're focused on seems to be kind of the raw physiological, um, but there's a huge emotional piece to longevity, regardless of how much AI is going to change things. Yeah. Um, and some of that will manifest in, like, sympathetic stress, chronic stress, blood pressure, sleep, blah, blah, blah, more than that as well is what is your moment to moment experience of, of lifelike too. Yeah. So, I'm interested in how you are thinking about the emotional and spiritual piece of longevity and health when you've got all of this focus on the physical piece. So are you, are you and how are you looking at those two elements? Do you even conceive, conceive of them within your map framework? Yeah. I mean, first, I don't really feel emotions. So, no, I'm joking. I mean, people, that, so the, that's a very common perspective. What people don't realize is that the entirety of my endeavor is, um, is about AI. And how we as a human race survive this moment, like, full stop. That is the only reason I'm doing this. Was it like that when you first started? Yes. Really? So, you saw the writing on the wall with regards to AI before normies like me did. In 2016, I, I gave this talk and I was like, look, if we look at this graph, very clear, it's up and to the right. And it's big. What was the graph? AI. Right. Whatever it is, it's going to be big. And so I didn't care to get into the prediction game of like what it, when it's going to arrive and what it's going to be and all that, just that this is a moment. And I was trying to poke around, like, given this, uh, it, it really does feel like this is like very much like a feeling to it intuition. It feels big and it feels consequential. And it feels like we probably want to be sober to get this and right. And so what I've been trying to do more than anything is to say we need a new moral philosophy that enables us to survive this moment. That basically the philosophy we have now that drives everything is, is one built on death. We are inherently a die species. We seek death for the glory of immortality through our various games. And the new moral philosophy I'm trying to create is don't die. That is like when you get birth to super intelligence, existence itself is the highest virtue. And so the back to this book of the history of Western thought, Plato Aristotle, uh, medieval Christianity, medieval times, Renaissance, enlightenment, modern day scientific era. Like big chunks of time for these big ideologies. We're due for a brand new moral philosophy and it will be induced by AI. And so it, the opening is right now and it's not just like some small tweak. It's a really big opening and that's what I'm really angling for. And so health is a vector to basically talk about it to say like, here's how you understand philosophy through these very practical actions, but that's really what I'm trying to do. And so above all, it's a health is a, is a language to communicate a new moral philosophy on what we do as a species in this moment. Before we continue, if your sleep's been off, taking ages to fall asleep waking up at random times or feeling groggy in the morning, moments to sleep packs are here to help. They're not your typical knock you out supplement, just overloaded with melatonin, it's just the most evidence-based ingredients are perfect doses to help you fall asleep more quickly. Stay asleep throughout the night and wake up feeling more rested and revitalize it in the morning. 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My goal is to build the world's next major moral framework, an ideology that bridges human and machine, biology and intelligence, the ancient and the emergent. The coming psychosis, real possibility in the coming years, is that society becomes dangerously psychotic. Yes, we are already psychotic, addicted, fragmented and self-destructive, but I mean clinically psychotic and on a civilizational scale. We are already showing precursor symptoms, record antidepressant use, rising suicide rates, rampant addiction and global increases in loneliness and anxiety disorders. These are all biomarkers of a species whose cognitive environment has outpaced its biology. Human cognition evolved under conditions of slow change. Our nervous systems and social architectures were shaped for a world that changed near imperceptibly over millennia when things changed faster than our native capacity with lose coherence. The hippocampus binds the present to memory and the prefrontal cortex constructs a coherent future. Does that mean? Yeah. It means that we are going to struggle to keep up and it's going to be so unnerving to us that things might get chaotic and psychotic and it might just like have the bottom drop out. During this book, 1929 about the stock market crash, the focus was financial gain. Invest in the stock market, get credit to invest more, leverage yourself up and then when that burst, it created all kinds of destruction and economy and we took us a long time to recover from that. I think the equivalent right now would be hope that you have hope for the future, right? Like you have imaginations of what you want to be, become what you want to achieve, everyone has that and as society progresses, when AI starts doing various things, it's not that they're bad. It's just that change happens and that creates uncertainty for humans like what am I going to do? Who am I? What's my identity? How do I feel secure? All these basic questions. If we can't answer those as fast as people feel insecure about it, then you kind of teeter on the psychosis where like can you keep your shit together? And so people focus a lot on AI, like is AI a threat? Should we pause it? Like all these different questions, there's an equal and opposite concern of what happens to human society when all this change is happening so quickly and we can't respond fast enough. Like is human, like is the bottom falling out, the real risk of, you know, then humans do human stuff, right? Like we, what's the bottom falling out in this scenario? It's the sturdiness of law and order of hope that I, my son, you know, my 20-year-old son, he can go to school, he can get a degree, he can get a job, he can make money, he can find his own apartment, he can get married, you know, if he wants to have kids like the natural life progression, if he can't quite see that structure anymore, who is he? Or you take like my dad who's like now is early 70s, he's on the other side, he's in the legal profession, the tools are getting so good, like he just can't hang, like it's hard for him to hang. And he's like, what do I do? Like I'm now out of the game and I don't feel any worse, like I don't have any identity because he's really, really struggling. And so you take any person at any stage in their life, you've got really serious existential challenges on this. This is not guaranteed. It's just like a thought experiment of like what could happen. And so what don't die could be is like this, this thirtiness beneath us to say it's okay. Like our identities are not tied up in our profession. They're not tied up in our status in the community. It's like actually tied up by this, this virtue of existence that we're going to fight this new game as a species that don't die. And so it's trying to create sturdiness of identity, sturdiness of community, sturdiness of like we've got this, we have a purpose, we have a mission, we're here for a reason. It's the mission of being alive is simply mortality. Does that not drop down much of the complexity that people find beauty in? It's like simply being alive. Like there's two parts to this that I see in my mind. One is one which is very whole, it's about enoughness, it's about being okay as you are. But that's not how humans are wired. You know this? Yeah. Like power, status, money, like we are going to try and even if it's just I play pickleball on a week, we can with my friends, I want to become better at pickleball next week. If I'm not better at pickleball, there is this sense of lack that comes through. Yeah. But on one side, there is sort of enoughness, but when you get down to a more sort of raw, objective ledger, like your job is to be alive tomorrow. Yeah. Fucking hell. Really? Yeah. Like maybe if we were in a time of war, or there was a lot of pressure or there's a pandemic, like, oh, that'll imbue me because I'm, there's resistance. But like, really, like the peak of my contribution is to not expire by tomorrow permanently until, you know, it does happen. Yeah. And I mean, I'm spiring as that is a vision versus yeah, I mean, so to make a parallel example, think of capitalism as an objective function. So you say making money is your goal, right? When you wake up, that's what you do. And now you see the entire world is engaged in that goal in some capacity, everyone. Don't die is a similar game where you say our goals of species is to end death, not just for ourselves, for us collectively and the planet. And so you're basically taking on the biggest challenge you could ever take on in this part of the universe. You're trying to solve for entropy, like let's just like list out a few things we could work on. How would you go about building a global biological immune system? So let's say we say a pandemic like COVID is not good for us. Like we don't want those anymore. We don't want the plague. We don't want somebody in a lab, you know, cooking up smallpox again. Great. How could we build out a global biological immune system where we have sensors around the world where it automatically detects any kind of pathogen that is threatening to our life. That's a pretty cool scientific project. Now let's say we care about the oceans and the ocean health and the coral reef is burning up right now. That's bad from an environment. How do we stop that from happening and rebuild coral reef? And so you just start like ticking down the projects of how could you as a species solve for entropy, like solve for death. The list is endless, like it's like you have more to do than you ever could in capitalism. It's a bigger game than capitalism. Can you flex it in the same way? Sure. I mean, you have the same rules, right? Like anyone who does something has high status in the community. Like if I'm solving, if I'm making a contribution, like for example, I started to, again, like my entire game is to make death related things that are high status, make them low status, right? And so in this case, you could start scoring companies that do something that actually kill you, right? So that could be scrolling and let's scroll and do so you'd endless scroll. It could be alcohol. It could be vaping. It could be porn. It could be toxins like all the things companies that introduce that into the world. You would quantify it and they would get a die score. Every fast food company represents death, right? They are actively introducing molecules into people's body that induce death versus more healthy ingredients. So like that's an example where you start assigning a quantitative measure on what an entity, individual or company is doing into society. Like a carbon offset, but for long as you have a team. Exactly. But you define it in this really granular fashion and you tie because right now if you make money and you dirty the world, it doesn't matter, right? If you make money and you poison people, it doesn't matter. In fact, you're kind of a hero. So like to tie social status with your actual effect on life or death for the species. What have been the biggest changes in your approach or beliefs about health and longevity over the last few years? You came in the show maybe three years ago and then we go to hang out in Roatan a couple of years ago, but lots of research, lots of experimentation, self experimentation. What have been the biggest pivots? Yeah. I'd say one is do less, like most things in health and wellness and longevity don't work. And so people spend a lot of time doing stuff and I would say save your time and money and don't do a lot of stuff, do a few number, do a few different things. And then two is the biggest yield is typically doing behavioral change. So like if a person has, everybody has their thing, let's say somebody's thing is like they love skittles and they just, you know, can't help themselves to have a bag later night. Then that's the biggest longevity therapy for that person is a stopping the bag of skittles. And so what a person will typically do is like if they have that, if they're locked in on that battle, they will, um, to compensate for that, they'll go to a gym, they'll go get red light therapy, they'll do a cold plunge, they'll do all this stuff, but it's basically to compensate for the fact that they feel so powerless to stop the skittles thing that they'll rather do this. So most people are doing that compensation. Even though like those things are good, they're not the higher yield thing. The higher yield thing is to stop the bad behavior. But that's the thing that most people feel very hard and what they don't realize in doing that is like the reason why that's hard is because they're not sleeping. Not sleeping well just destroys your willpower. And they're not sleeping well because they need like five other proceeding things are in case. So I try to help people understand like here's a five step process to nail your sleep. When you nail your sleep, your willpower boosts, when you willpower boost, you can tackle skittles. That's your therapy. Okay. So it's sleep numero uno. By far. Okay. After all of the experimentation, what's the 30,000 foot view on how to get perfect sleep? You want to lower your resting heart rate before bed. It's the highest value biomarker you can track on a daily basis. So you'll find that everything that increases your heart rate before bed beside sex is bad for you. And everything that lowers your heart rate before bed is good for you. And so for example, food, timing of food is really important. So if you're bedtime to 10 pm, you want to have your final meal the day at 6 pm. So four hours, I personally do like 10 to 12 hours, because I really like that digestion time. It lowers my heart rate to like 39 to 40 beats per minute. So food four hours before 60 minutes before bed screens off. So that's very hard because we're all addicted to our phones, but hard cut phones off because you want to avoid scrolling, texting, working, and that's very arousing for the body. Red light, amber light in the house. So whites, blue lights are really bad for middle tone release. You want to have like a 60 minute, wide down. So when screens are off, you want to use that 60 minutes to just calm yourself down. So this is very hard because people have, we've created these habits where we're glued to our phones. And if we're not on our phones, we don't know what to do with ourselves. And so it creates this panic. So the 60 minute time under before bed is really precious in that you just need to kind of be with yourself. Now you can hang out with a friend, a family member. You can go for a walk, you can have breathwork, meditation, a hobby, like puzzle, journal, whatever. But you just need to learn how to be with yourself without stimulation. And that will naturally allow you to calm yourself down. I do this process where I talk to myself. So like, I talked to my various Brian's. So like sleep Brian comes on duty at 7.30 pm because my bed time's 8.30 pm. And then all the Brian's line up and they want to talk to me. How many are there? Oh man. There's probably a dozen. I probably allowed. It's like a bunny blew me up. Okay. And vicious Brian is by far the loudest. He's always like, he shows up and he's like, I got a banging idea. Brand new idea. It's fucking amazing. And sleep Brian says, I love you, ambitious Brian, doing this real solid, like doing great out there. Also. We're in sleep mode. So I'm right down your idea. And tomorrow we'll talk about this. And the next one is anxious Brian. He's like doing all the checks like today. Did you make any big airs? Did you like, you know, do anything? I'm excited, anyone. Do anything stupid or do anything, say anything you regret. And so like doing that into a reconciliation of like, do you have good self-awareness? And they all just line up. But if you don't talk to them, then when you head it hits the pillow, they show up and they're like, we're here and we want to talk about our stuff. And then you go to bed finally, you wake up at 2 a.m. and they're like, we're back. And so you've got to have some kind of reconciliation process to calm those voices. So like those, those are the big ones like food, light, wind down routine, screens off that, yeah, like, and then caffeine, so you want to have your final caffeine around noon each day. So you have a six hour half life. Those are the real big ones. So, but what you want is like for a man, you want to like be like 50-ish heart rate, same with the same with the female. If you're in that zone, you're doing pretty well. If you can bump down a bit more. And once you get that nighttime routine knocked down, then you can start. Exercise in very well. Like, if you sleep really well, you will power this guy rockets. If you sleep poorly, like knocks your prefrontal cortex offline, you can't really have much more power. So that's like number one. Okay. Lots of that. A quick aside, if you have been feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the problem. They play a huge role in your energy, your focus, and your performance. But most people have no idea where there's our or what to do if something's off, which is why I partnered with function because I wanted a smarter, more comprehensive way to understand what's happening inside of my body. 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Now it does not mean that you have to always be in a routine, but the body is built for routine. So for example, if your bedtime is 10pm, your circadian rhythm is locked in to 10pm and your body expects sleep to happen at 10pm, this is what jet lag is. Yes, exactly. This is like you have a garbage truck that rolls through your body at around 10.30pm and it's there to pick up all the trash. What is that? It's your, basically, your cleansing system of like your, your glyphatic system is cleaning all the trash from your body. And if you're not asleep at 10.30pm and in your deep sleep mode, it's going to, it's going to not come. So you've got trash built up, like New York, you've got the trash bags all over the place. And so people think if I'm not in bed by 10, I'm going to go to bed at 1, that's okay. I'll sleep into my morning makeup. It doesn't work that way. And so the body has very specific rhythms that it wants to be on. And so when you lock in, it's good. And so when some of this argument, like, I'm going to give my body heart some poetic stress, right? I'm like, push it to one and then I move back. The body hates it. Like, inconsistent sleep is as bad as little sleep. I was going to say, do you, when it comes to prioritization, is duration more important than regularity or are they equal? It's regularity by far is the best one. Yeah. More than duration. Oh, so I'm sorry. You said duration. Um, I don't know, I'm not sure on that one. It's kind of like picking a favorite child because you kind of need both. Yeah. Like, the less than here is, because these are bad habits people have. You need to be on time. You can't make it up. You can't skip during the week and then make it up in the weekend. So you miss a garbage truck every day. It doesn't come back. Like, sure, maybe we can, but then you're so off on your circadian rhythm that like, now is a garbage truck even in service. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, so I understand what you mean with regards to the timing, but the 60 minute window. What if you don't get it? What if this, you're out at dinner, you're doing something with friends. You're hanging out. You don't get to, you're around some bright light. I've got a great, a great story from a friend. And he was in his hyper, hyper optimizer zone, which everybody goes through where it's like, the stress of trying to be perfect kills you more quickly than you're in perfect state. And he had this 60 minute wind down routine, which was blue light blockers on and the mouth tape and the nose strip and the magnesium by glycinate and everything else. And he'd been sort of winding down for 60 minutes and his girlfriend at the time had been downstairs. And he was brushing his teeth in the dark so that he wouldn't have any light on. And she just comes like tinkering in, hits the light in the bathroom, like, lights come on. He's like, ah, he's blinded. He hasn't looked at the light for an hour, goes to bed and he's raging. He's like, ah, he's my entire routine has been messed up and I laid there sort of staring at the ceiling. Doesn't sleep. And she drops off within five minutes, having just come in from like, you know, scrolling tiktok or whatever. The example is about the fragility of reliance on that and the fear that without it, what does that create? Oh, I mean, how am I going to be able to write my book today? I didn't get my, you know, like, as you said, like, what were the stupid things that I said today? That's anxious Brian. But another type of anxiety is, oh, I didn't get my routine done. Therefore, I can't sleep, which becomes self-fulfilling, sleeps one of the very few things that trying harder at it makes it worse. Yeah. I mean, people can find their happy balance. I think if you look at the various archetypes of people, some people love that kind of regimen. They love to be regimented, they like structure, they like process, procedure, order, and that's just their personality type. Other people like the girlfriend in the story, she's not. And so the, I think the thing here is for people to recognize their kind of archetype of where they naturally gravitate to where they feel good about themselves, if you're not naturally orderly and structured, like, don't be that, right? If you're, yeah. Yeah. So it's just like, find your jam, but understand there are principles of play, which you can't just override. Right. Regardless of whether you like structure or don't, like, if you have a three hour swing between bedtimes across a week, yeah, yeah, your body doesn't work in that way. Um, what are, what are the things that people focus on to sleep that don't move the needle? Hmm. I, I really, I guess I take 300 MCGs of, um, melatonin, just like, so a third of a gram, microgram, milligram. Yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's very like people, people fucking way, way, way overcooked, like one milligram, five milligrams, like this 13, 50, yeah, exactly. Exactly. I do it. It's very tiny dose of melatonin. Uh, it's the offset, the calcification that happens in my pineal gland, like, as you age, your pineal gland calcifies, you produce less melatonin. So it's like a little offset teeny bit. So in 10 years time, maybe you'll take 500 microns. That's right. Yeah. Exactly. And so it's, it's a very small touch. Otherwise, I don't take anything for sleep. Okay. And so I'd so much rather build habits. And this is the same thing, like, Americans, just like we are, we take more anti-depressants than any country in the world. Quick fix. We love pills. Like, we love pills to solve fundamental problems. And habits. Dummy are a power to. Yeah. Habits are the strongest ones. So like, that's why I focus on it. Just build your sturdy habits. In the archetype you are, that's the tried and true thing that delivers the best. Now, if you want to try to amplify with whatever you take, cool, but generally speaking, um, it's really about habits. Okay. Give me your formula for behavior change. Behavior change is so important, let's assume someone's taken the first red pill, which is sleep. And I now have access to, um, the amount of willpower that I'm supposed to have, as opposed to, however much is diminished. Yeah. I'm a shit-sleep from the night before. Yeah. I've arrived, it looked, behold, my litany of shitty habits. Exactly. Like a guy in a side, a side alley going, would you care to. Exactly. That's my was of shitty habits. Someone has a shitty habit, maybe it's the skittles, maybe it's, whatever, pick whichever you think is a good one, talk me through your James Clear approach to the Brian Johnson's James Clear attempt. Okay. So I'll show you mine, but I wonder if this resonates or not with people. But I had this issue where at 7 p.m., I would overeat every night. Yeah. Evening eating for me is the only time. No, no, no, never overeats in a breakfast. Oh, yeah. It was just 9 a.m. and I gouged myself on Snickers. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like maybe like a, I'll weekend brunch where you order, you know, pancakes, you're like, oh my god. That's a one off. Yeah. Well, that was a bad idea. I don't want to do that again. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So like your willpower goes down all day. It makes sense. Like 7 p.m. like you have stress, you're worn down. Like you just want to like whatever. So that was my issue. I already ate at 7 p.m. And so I did it every day for years. And every night it was the same battle, right? Like, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I do it. And then like, you know, my, the top button on my pants. I can't be buttoned up. And I'm like, fucking hate myself. Like this is so tight. I'm so uncomfortable. So I tried so many things to stop that. And I couldn't. And so the one thing that I did is one day, I just kind of said in just evening, Brian, you're fired. Like you, Brian, who occupied me from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m., you're an unreliable thing. Like every day. You would. Yes. Do it. Like you basically come up with these rationalizations like tonight's the last night. Tomorrow morning we're going to exercise really hard. It's one bite. Like whatever your specific entry point is, you always convince me to do it. You're a slippery motherfucker. Exactly. And you basically make morning Brian miserable. You make dad Brian less good, let's go dad, like ambitious Brian is hurting because of you. And so I said you're fired. And so that means from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. you do not have authority to eat food no matter what. Like I don't care what's happening. You cannot eat food because you're so shifty. And so I just made that rule. And so I gave him a name. I wrote down his arguments. And so he would come into my mind and be like, Hey, I'm here. And I'd be like, Hey, evening Brian. Like how you doing, man? Fuck you. Yeah. And like, Oh, you're going to use the we're going to work out hard tomorrow morning argument. Or like tonight's last night, like I see you. And I know what that is. I've done this a hundred times, I've never my entire life felt satisfied with myself after doing this. Ever. I've never felt proud of myself. I never felt good. Yeah. You're selling yourself alive. How are you going to feel after doing exactly? Exactly. And so yeah, that was just it was just a rule. And so I guess the rule is something like none is better than some that we do like to rationalize that. Oh, just like every once in a while is fine moderation is a principle of life I want to play by. We have all these very clever catchphrases to justify our inability to actually do we want. And so yeah, that was really clean hope for me. That's cool. And the reason I like it is because of this most recent iteration of the over optimizing, can we not just fucking like how lame how like the stress of trying to be perfect is killing you more quickly, the imperfections moderation man. And there is a kernel of truth in it. And this is why like a slower, more gentle approach to I see you. I think there's something there that I see you. I think there's something there is Hey, man, your focus on these habits is a kind of fragility. And it is destroying the enjoyment of life by obsessing over how you live it, right? So I get the angle on that. The problem is that nobody scrutinizes the just live by vibes man approach. With the same like level of resolution, because by design, they're living by fucking vibes and often it's being tracked. But you've I've never even thought of it before, but you've fucking nailed it, which is the I just live by moderation, dude, is not living by moderation. It's living by extremists. Like you end up the moderation, you put those uses example because I like biscuits, cookies, I like biscuits. If you tell me pack of Oreos, there's one outside, you can eat none of them or you can eat all of them. I'm like, done. Exactly, right? But you can eat two of them, you're like, yeah, exactly. Fucking Superman. Yeah. No, I can't eat two of them. Yeah. No, give me a start. Maybe I don't know. Maybe some people aren't like this. Yeah. I'm, I'm a eat all of them. So you're what on the surface, like first order looks like the very bureaucratic dictatorial Nazi policy. Like how can you do this to yourself? Like, ah, you're not balancing life. Like it would be much better if you just allowed yourself to treat like every so often. It's like, okay, show me how every so often you're every so often is. Yeah, exactly. It's not that every so often. It's actually most of the time. Yeah. You know, I just like I'm a bit more flexible with my sleep, you know, sometimes I let myself sleep in. Sometimes I give myself, I go to bed a little bit later, like it's like, okay, let's just look at when you're going to bed. It just keeps on shifting later and later and there is no trend over time. It's just why and sometimes it's getting wider. Yeah. So yeah, I think I've never thought of it before, but the everything in moderation is not done in moderation. Exactly right. Yeah. So this is like, again, a medic moral philosophy warfare. So the person who's arguing for moderation is attempting to take a drive towards health and make that low status and make their moderation high status. So this, if you, if you, if you look at the world through this lens, you realize everybody at all times is trying to take their position and they're like assessing the battlefield and they're saying anything that makes me feel low status, I'm going to invert and make that high status thing, low status and my thing high status because I inherently want to feel superior to people at all times and that is like literally everything that's happening at any moment is society ever. It's just like humans want to feel superior in high status. Okay. Do you know the inner citadel idea by Isiah Belin? I don't. I'll have me to teach you. Okay. I think it's maybe useful to you. Isiah Belin says, "When the natural road to one human fulfillment is blocked, human beings retreat into themselves, become involved in themselves and try to create inwardly that world which some evil fate has denied them externally. If you cannot obtain from the world that which you really desire, you must teach yourself not to want it. If you cannot get what you want, you must teach yourself to want what you can get. This is a very frequent form of spiritual retreat in depth into a kind of inner citadel in which you try to lock yourself up against all the fearful ills of the world and the different way to look at it is if your leg is wounded, you can try to treat the leg and if you can't, then you cut off the leg and denounce that the desire for legs is misguided and just be subdued." That's right. Yeah. That's it. I mean, basically that's the exact articulation of what we've been discussing. Yeah. It's pathetic and more of a loss of warfare to feel superiority because nobody wants to feel inferior. Yeah. It's like it. We looked at Adelarian stuff much. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of that is driven by this, I can't be inferior. Yeah. This is why getting into a relationship with too much of a power imbalance, one person is significantly busier than the other. One person is significantly better looking the other. One person has significantly more attention than the other. The power imbalance is so great that unless the second person is happy to only ever sing harmony and never sing lead and is there like in service and the service becomes their reward. If you have two people, you can't have two people singing lead, like one person has to sing harmony. Yeah. And if your lead singing and their lead singing and theirs is fucking way ahead or yours is way ahead, there's going to be tension. And I think about those bridges that you see during earthquakes, and they sort of do this. They're like flex, like that. And I think about that kind of visual, it's this sort of flexing intention. It's not even necessarily appalling apart, it's I'm going this way and you're going that way. Yeah. Exactly right. Yeah. I mean, what is society? I mean, I guess like there's two macro games happening in society, like in that tension is, what is, what is high status? And then within that game of who is high status, right? That's it. And then you've got everyone else playing to try to take the high status, make it low status. But like right now, the highest status game is wealth. Right. Capitalism. And this came from out of Smith couple hundred years. So I'm saying, like, we look at the highest status game role wealth. What about a renowned popularity recognition, because you look at somebody who already has lots of wealth and a lot of the time, they continue to pursue status, I spoke about this with Naval. And his, I think this is true, you're interested to get your perspective, money is evolutionarily novel. And yet, it's a proxy for status and it gives you things that status can't, but we should have raw status for status is like prestige, dominance, access, it's like a recognition. That should be more deeply rooted and therefore less easy to satiate than money, because money is more novel. And money is not direct access to the thing that you need, right? Money without status can make you live, but status without money can make you fucking miserable and kind of on the street in a way. But it seems like people who get lots of status rarely continue to pursue money, whereas people who get the fucking infinity money do always continue to pursue status. You've seen a symmetry here for sure, you're interested with your perspective on money and status. Absolutely right. I mean, I think, basically, I think that's correct. I think money has more raw power, just transactional, just raw power, like the ability to do things in the world, like to move the world money in this current context. Now, behind that, so again, I remember two games, one is what is high status, and then two is who's winning within status. And so my comment on money is that that is within context of that is high status. But if you look at broader status of what is high status, right, like religion has played status, right? Like you look at Christianity where Jesus is like, look guys, I've got a new status game for you. And it's not what you're being told, like I'm going to tell you a whole new rule set, and so any religion has done that. And so this is the game I'm trying to play. I'm trying to basically say, like right now capitalism is status, like if we say like this is the thing, and I'm trying to say this is the thing that might lead us to make a terrible error in judgment on what we do in this moment. And that the flip is existence itself is high status. Interesting. And never to the exchange of anything else, it never is never worth trading existence for anything else, wealth, power or status, existence itself is the highest virtue. 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If I go into the link in the description below or heading to drinklment.com/modernwisdom, there's no code. I usually care about the box more than that, drinklment.com/modernwisdom. Yeah, I do understand and I think what I like is that you are not trying to append the game of status itself. Yeah. That's locked in. It's like saying, well, rather than trying to work out a more efficient rocket to get us off this launch pad, we can just defeat gravity, and you can go, no. There are physics within the system and one of the physics is on the physical losses. Yeah. So really the master game in society, the ultimate game is determining what is status. What is the highest status? Then of course, you have billions of billions of humans will play within the game. They'll just be like, oh, this is the game and the function of the reward system, like I'm playing. They won't think about it. They won't realize that the game is set up for them. They'll just play it. That's interesting. Yeah. So rather than trying to convince people not to play the game, you just change what the game is playing. Exactly. They'll play it. They'll have the same fundamentals they'll apply to the new game. So when you say existence of the highest virtue, the same human behaviors that are stamped out throughout time, same archetypes, same play, same stuff, every single time, just get the game right. That's what I'm saying. This moment is so simple, just get the objective function cracked. It's like some sort of judo throw that uses your opponent's momentum against them. Yeah, exactly. So to speak. That's right. Okay. Tell me about your sauna experiments. Yeah. I was watching those unfold with intrigue. So we really did. We discovered quite a few things that I didn't, I shouldn't say discovered. We found out a lot of quite a few things. So one is for those who are new to sauna, dry sauna has the most evidence because you're trying to get your core body temperature up and so infrared does not get hot enough and wet sauna will basically burn you at the temperatures you need. So dry sauna is the right traditional dry sauna. Yep. 20 minutes a day at 200 degrees Fahrenheit, 83 is that 83 Celsius, 93 Celsius, all right, 200 Fahrenheit. So three things we found. One is I was in LA during the LA wildfires when like 20,000 feet up if you go close to them. Usually my toxins on my body, when before the fires happened, and then after the fires happened, and I was absolutely baked in toxins. So I was in like the 99th percentile as I'm sure other people in LA were too of toxins that you could like go down the list, be like, this chemical is used in PVC pipe forever housing. This, this chemical is like a countertop. This chemical is like, you go that you literally see the burned houses and parts. Breathing in teflon. Yeah. And you could like down the list, you could look at the industrial solvent as a case of rent. Exactly. So my body was full of all these houses and cars were burnt. And the sauna annihilated the toxins. It was remarkable. So that was cool. Two is we have been trying to get my microplastics down because microplastics live in the body in the brain. And we were measuring microplastics in my blood and also my semen. And so microplastics hang out in the testicles. And that has all sorts of negative effects on testosterone, on fertility. You just don't want them hanging out there. So I have over a 90% reduction in my blood and my semen of microplastics. And that was a first in world demonstration of no one had ever done that before. So because the microplastics test is actually kind of hard to do, right? Exactly. Yeah. The test is hard. And no one had done semen before. No one had repaired blood and semen. Yeah. And it just holds, because this is fascinating, but you know why kitchen detergents say 99.kills 99.99% of bacteria. Why? It's not because they don't, they're unable to kill more bacteria to the testing tolerance only goes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Then this kind of feels like it was not too dissimilar of the sun. Yeah. So one is we showed that sauna is a really efficacious detox protocol. Number two is we showed, well, we think sauna was the reason why my microplastics went down so dramatically. We relatively controlled across everything else. Exactly. It was very controlled. Like we didn't do any therapy in that time frame that were meaningful. And then three is I had really great changes, improvements in my vascular markers. So it actually improved, even though I've been really good health, it still had a measurable increase in my vascular markers. It increased my veg F. This is like you want veg F in your body because it helps produce more capillaries and blood vessels like you want a higher level. It increased it by 400%, which was amazing. I had a dramatic drop of a p-towel, which is a, a protein in the brain that leads to Alzheimer's. So if that dropped dramatically, we also did a test on looking at when you're in that kind of environment, you want to put ice packs on your testicles because otherwise it annihilates your fertility markers. It'll take down your count, your morphology, all the above. And even men who say, like, I don't care, I'm not trying to have a baby, there's really negative feedback loops. So if you have smashed fertility markers, then it has native effects on your health overall. So I did three weeks with ice, then I went two weeks without ice, in that two week window, I got smashed. So my fertility markers went down by 50%. The prices that you pay to uncover this stuff are the rest of the amount. So I went back on ice, and I've been back on ice for six weeks now, and I got these results on my drive here. Okay, cool. Yeah. So I'm going to go by memory. So it's the highest sperm count I've had ever. It's the highest motility count I've ever had, it's the highest morphology I've ever had. So like, they bounce, not literally they bounce back, it's the highest I've ever been. And if you look at, these are like off the chart numbers, like six to ten times the level of like normal fertility, so what do you think's going on there? Is that just straight vascular changes? We're not sure. I need to do you think's going on to give me, come on, ballpark the mechanism for me. Have a play around. Yeah, I mean, I really need a deep dive, and it's more, yeah, I don't know, it's a really big jump. And I've been doing hyperbaric oxygen therapy, we've been doing the sauna. We haven't done really any other meaningful therapy that could boost it. Okay. So let's go through the protocol for the sauna. You said 200 degrees, dry, dry, the traditional sauna ice pack on the balls. Does time of day matter? Okay. Does, what did you go for as a solution for ice pack on the balls? Yeah. So you can buy these from Amazon, they're like eight bucks, BPA free, no toxins, reusable. So they're blue, they get a pack of like four, and then you want them on the balls in the sauna. So put on cotton underwear, and then cotton shorts, and then slide them underneath the shorts. In between the two. Exactly. Yeah. And then like, so just have two of them in there. But yeah, if you keep them chilled, like, we wonder whether the chilling actually has an improvement. Like we can't. That could be so interesting. Yeah. It's got nothing to do with the sauna. Yeah. We know sauna destroys, but we wonder like, is, is the icing because we saw it out of the sauna, put the ice back on. So like, yeah, if you're working now, like, so we actually would be going to do another experiment after this completed. I was going to start icing the testicles during the day, like, just when I work, like, because we saw a, like, a 30% jump in my fertility markers in the first three weeks of, we're doing nice. And we were trying to figure like, why did they, the sauna increase it? And then the ice just protected the, protected the increase, or, so we're trying to figure out what the colors are. Yeah. Okay. What else have I got to ask? Are you taking any binders, like a charcoal, a color styramene, a, a, a, a, a, a, an AC flush type scenario, something to capture the heavy metals that are coming out of you? None. Right. No. So it was just two pairs of cotton shorts, a nice pack. Yep. And like, and like a cotton towel wipe yourself off, and you're, as you're sweating, jumping the shower. Why the wipe yourself off? If, if the toxins have been excreted via sweat, just nag it when it's like, hey, not your skin, so you doesn't dry and, uh, shower straight after. Yep. That's it. It's the entirety of the protein. Yep. Cool. Um, I'm going to guess you were doing that seven days. Yeah, every day. Right. Yeah. After working out. So I go, work out for an hour. Yeah. I'm really jumping to sauna. And so I'm already really warmed up. Yeah. So it's important to spending the first seven minutes getting up to, exactly. Temperature. Yeah. there seems to be some pretty good evidence about, well, you kind of extending the sessions' benefits. Yeah. Some watts. So you're stacking a few things together. Exactly right. But I do like the idea of that we're talking about behavior change earlier on. Stacking habits. Yes, it's very strong. Exactly. Look, if I'm going to train and I know that when I get home from training, my training session is an hour, but I'm actually going to book an hour and 40 and that gives me 10 minutes to get home, and then I'm going to get in the sauna for 20 minutes, or wherever I'm going to go to, maybe the sauna's the gym or whatever. And then it's going to give me 10 minutes to my shower. And then I'm done. And I've done both of these things. And I've done them in the right order. I've done them like together in that format. Anything else on sauna. I mean, initially I did sauna in the morning. So in the first two weeks, it absolutely wrecked my sleep. I destroyed it. It's not doing it in the morning. Well, I think just doing it period. It's 200 degrees. It's a lot. It's really, really warm. I had never done sauna before. So I think it was just the adaptation time period. I'm fine now, but just like note that there's initially an adaptation time period. And then two is I tried at night initially erecting my sleep. But then I tried it after I had the adaptation period and it boosted my sleep. So I found that there is some virtue in doing it before bed. So you just have to run the experiment. You have to see for you if it's going to improve sleep or not. Yeah, that also means that you're going to have to be training later in the day, which is not always necessary. Yeah, exactly. If you pair those two things, exactly. You don't want to exercise within four hours before bedtime. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. H bot talked to me about that. I was messaging you the day that I started my H bot. It was the day that you put your video out. And I'm in there and you were like, I can't remember what the fuck you replied with a 25th, 20 and five, 83% with natural blah, blah, blah. Just because I mean this big fucking metal dildo and the guy that's there at Vance from beam hyperbarics in Austin, if anyone wants to go to a great hyperbaric place, it's fucking sick. You can book it by the hour. Vance is great. And I'm like knocking on the little, this tiny little portal out of my submarine. And comes in and I just showed my phone. I'm like, I couldn't be bothered to use the radio to get outside. Brian, Brian, message, did you, are we doing this? And you sort of went, that's so funny. Yeah, put his thumb up like that. So, uh, yeah, hyperbaric. I mean, something I was, when you messaged me, I was worried about you because, uh, like a week before somebody had blown up in Arizona. So, yeah, so, what does that look like? Well, so in, in hyperbaric, the idea is you pressurize. So, uh, you're actually, so at atmosphere, at sea level, we're about 15 pounds per scourge of, of concentration of oxygen at two atmospheres, you're 30. So, you pressurize. And some hyperbaric chambers, they pressurize and then they just push 100% oxygen into the chamber. So, you're just hanging out and breathing the oxygen. But if you're doing that, you're sitting in a pressurized chamber and you're basically a flammable, by a parallel way. If you're, you're bomb. Like, so if something, if, if there's a spark of any type, you just blow up your phone or some device that you've got with you or whatever the fuck. Okay, no, no, no, no, no, no, this was, I was not, I was, I had the, I was reading the mask. I was doing stuff. Okay, cool. Yeah. So, um, yes, hyperbaric, oxygen therapy, I think today it's fair to say has been the single best performing therapy we've ever done. And this is both good news and bad news because bad news is that it's expensive. It's inaccessible. It's time consuming. It's super inconvenient. So, it sucks because I hate sharing this because people, it's very exciting, but then it sucks because people can't do it. I mean, if you're already to say, I've got to find a sauna to use and most people don't have a sauna in the house. Oh god, now you tell me I need to produce my own oxygen. This thing weighs fucking two tons. I don't, what's it fit? Totally. Yeah. And like, who has 90 minutes in a day to go do this thing? So, I would just say for, for people who have a serious condition and there's a variety of conditions that this could address, like even cognitive decline or, you know, wounds for diabetes. What would be on the list? Like, so there's a lot of emergent evidence for a cognitive decline that if you're entering the latter parts of your life and you're really struggling, this could have a meaningful impact on that. It is used for diabetics who can't heal very well. It's used for healing. So, people who've had surgeries to accelerate the healing process. If you have some kind of injury, you're really trying to overcome. That can be great. So, like, there are some- Tell me that some athletes post surgery or in 90 minutes, three times a day. Exactly. They're trying to get, they're trying to hit that 90 session number within weeks. Yes. So, like, there are some specialized applications where, and people, where it makes sense for the person to do, but I just want to be very sensitive. I understand, like, it sucks to hear something really efficacious and you can't get at exclusion. That makes sense. So, like, yeah, we, we basically, like, we do with all things, we measure, we have this, we cast this really wide net. We measured everything we could in my brain, my microbiome, a full-blood panel, saliva stool, metable and looks at proteomics, like, you name it, we measured it. And we just found improvements across the board. It was really, because most therapies will improve, like, this particular marker or that marker, but rarely do they have this broad spectrum improvement. So, we saw, like, the, the cognitive decline marker, p-towel 2 and 7 drop, we saw a microbiome. I had zero dysbiosis on my microbiome, like, no signatures at all of dysbiosis. We saw, I had no detachable inflammation in my body. So, like, when my HSCRP came back, zero. The 99.99, like, he's beating the test. Exactly, like, it was really remarkable across the board. And so, it was really efficacious. I did 60 sessions over 90 days. And I've continued to it. I've now done something like 200 sessions over the past year or something like that. So, I just have it as part of my routine. I do it. You want to be careful not to do it too much because you'll have oxygen toxicity. Yes. You want to have some time. But that's why the five-minute break is so important, right? Yeah, and I also take a week-long break. I'll do a sprint. I'm going to week-long break. So, you just need to be careful because you can overdo it and cause harm. 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And if you don't like it, they will give you your money back, plus they ship internationally. Right now, you can get up to $350 off the Pod5 Ultra by going to the link in the description below, or heading to 8sleep.com/modernwisdom and using the code "modernwisdom. A checkout" that's e-i-g-h-t-sleep.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom. A checkout. What was the protocol of mask-on mask-off? 20 minutes on, five minutes off. Cool. Yeah, I was doing that. That what the one super fucking annoying thing there is it's very relaxing to be in, it can be very relaxing to once you've pressurized, but you can't sleep. Yeah. Because you're busy. Got to put this to take this thing on and off. One of the things that I really enjoyed doing was HIV resonance breathing. Yeah. While I was in there. Have you got into resonance breathing? Yeah. Have you been doing it in the H-bot? Yes. So much fun. Yeah, it is. So much fun. There's a product that I got sent. I think in the first person outside of the company to have got it, it's this little lamp. I wouldn't be able to take it in, it would all fucking hell would break loose. But it's basically a resonance breathing stone and you pick it up and it's got an FTA approved thing in it and the lamp goes up and down and you put it back and it's done. So you don't need your phone, you don't need your phone, so that's brilliant. But Elite HIV is what I was using with the strap. I'm going to guess you'll have seen. One thing that I noticed about that niche, niche issue. The strap that came with the Elite HIV thing which you put on so that it can detect like real high fidelity high hertz, heart rate thing. Yeah. The button that you use to press to turn it on has a tiny little air pocket around it. So I got into the fucking H-bot. By the time I'd pressurized to get down, the button had been smashed and I couldn't, there was no air to press the button. Yeah. And then I was like trying to press it and it's just, yeah, yeah. Exactly. SpongeBob when he gets outside of the water. Anyway, H-bot, so I mean a couple of questions on this. 60 sessions as quickly as possible, basically, to start to accumulate because it's not like a one and done type of thing. Yeah. I think I have to do this at the time. I'm interested if there's any more information. Going from state change to crate change, like is this the sort of thing that locks in? I'm aware you haven't then tested coming off and seeing what the tail of this is. But the same thing goes for sauna. Yeah. Are you just fighting entropy with this? Is it something that you just need to do? Or is there anything, because I think there's a, I suddenly know in me, if I look at a therapy or a modality or whatever, and I find that there's no carryover. Yeah. I feel despondent. Yeah. And I'm like, fucking hell. I've just found this new thing. Here's another thing I have to do. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. It's because both you and I are on the other side of the entropy curve. The deal you want is youth. When you're 12, you just keep on getting better. But once you cross over to your age, they just, every day they get up and like, shit, she's better. But yeah, you and I are both on the other side where we're on this irreversible decline. And so, yes, you've got to keep it up. But one thing people are not aware of, with age bot is it's the best skin rejuvenation therapy in the world. So a lot of better than red light, better than micro needling, everything, like better than the vampire facial, better than any laser. It is because if you look at the data on the biopsies of it rebuilding collagen, alastin, and reducing senescent cell, it basically remodels your entire skin. It's not just face, like every layer of skin you're remodeling is really remarkable. Like if you look at people, like if I see people now, I can tell a signature of age bot skin. It's very, very clear to me what it looks like. And so it just, it happens. So yeah, that's the other thing is like a lot of, a lot of women, you know, who really care a lot about skin, age bot, getting the fucking age. Yeah, I mean, then you, if you pair, like the best finger protocol is to, if your first skin is to pair the best devices with age bot. So you basically, you do like a surface level, like a 15, 15 nanometer to resurface the skin for, for spots, wrinkles, like that. Then you do age bot and you can accelerate the healing. Is that micro needling? Is that what you're referring to? No, just a laser. I get 15, 15 nanometer laser, where it's like, it's a very, very benign laser, if you do it right, has lower risk of like pigmentation issues. For wrinkles, spots, just like for texture. And then you can do a deeper device, like a software, S-O-F-W-A-V-E, where it's ultrasound, where it's 1.5 millimeters below, millimeters below the dermis. So you hit top layer and underneath the dermis. So you're rebuilding collagen and the entire scaffolding the skin. And then you do age bot and then you accelerate the healing. So you basically do more sessions in this. Yeah. So that's like, you're doing a cute like skin rejuvenation thing and then fuck up. That's the kind of, you're still here. She's outside. I think I did software because I went to your dermatologist. Which one? Fuck, I can't remember the lady's name. That was why I had a moustache. I grew a moustache because I needed to get rid of my facial hair because they needed to do that in order to be able to. I'm pretty, I'm almost certain it was software. It felt like a cigarette burn that never actually got to. Exactly. Yeah. Like you're being synched by like a hot metal iron. Yeah, but it never actually peaks to the. Yeah. It was a really interesting lesson in the. Yeah. Blowing the it was a really interesting lesson in pain that because what you realize is you ride this crescendo for the people that haven't seen it. It's literally as if someone was to put something really hot out on you. And when that happens, there is a swelling. There is a crescendo. But it usually peaks it. You can almost hear it. If you have alcohol in an open wound, it goes like that. But it doesn't ever get above a six. So if she did, if she set the settings to 3.5 joules, which is the lowest setting, then it gets pretty tolerable if she goes to 4.2 top end because basically it's a total energy per area. I think I had it around about three point. I think she had it at 3.6, 3.7. I was being a weenie. Okay. So if you have the 4.2 where it basically like it cuts down the number of pulses by 30%. Yeah. If you want to like zip through it, God damn that. That is so painful. No, thank you. Oh, man. It does. It just feels like a red hot iron. I'm all right. Synch into the face. No, no, no, thank you. You mentioned there about a sort of vascular health and blood flow. Obviously, we started talking off about erectile, nighttime erectile stuff. For guys to improve blood pressure, vascular health, and then I get down stream from that, the impact on erections, erectile dysfunction, beyond like nighttime stuff. What have you come to learn about that? What's the protocol for a guy to improve that? Yeah. So I guess I would say to people listening, like maybe the thing that's most interesting is when I started this, when I was 42, I was pretty beat up. Like I had eaten sugar cereal as a kid, soda, like you know, downed 70 grams of sugar, like daily canned foods. I did the entrepreneurial grind, right? Didn't sleep. I was depressed for 10 years. I was overweight. Like I did all the starting behind the eyeball. Like all the bad things, right? And so I'm 42. I'm pretty beat up. My aches hurt, losing my hair. And so I didn't really know what could be done. I'm really shocked by how efficacious this entire thing has been. Like I'm just really stunned that the body really has this capacity to bounce back no matter how bad things are. And so I wanted for anyone listening to like who needs hope in their life, it really like the body is too far gone. Totally. Like I just like don't give up the smallest of things can have the biggest yields. And so have hope. And then two is I've been jamming on this for, you know, five years now. My markers keep on getting better. And so we still like I've aged, you know, past five years in time, but I'm still hitting new record highs. And in like nighttime erections and fertility markers in my speed of aging, in my DNA, in my TMI telomeres, like all these things are improving as age as time to be silly. So I mean, on the grand scale of things, I suspect these are like I'm this is not going to get me to 200 years, right? Like it's not on that kind of scale, but still like in how I feel as a person, like I do feel extremely energetic and look very clear headed. I feel my mood is very stable. I don't get irritated. Like I'm just kind of cool with existence, which is like for me, that's the marker of health, you know, like that. So one hope too is it's I think it's really worth the investment of this stuff. Like just pain your your like, pain the discipline to do it consistency. And then that that last thing is you don't need to do what I do. Like you don't need to chase these expensive therapies. You don't need to do age, but like the basic stuff has the dividends. And so I don't want I want people to feel hope and not discouraged. I want them to feel empowered, not like dammit that's out of reach because it really is like it's within people's reach and I hope they're intimidated. Yeah, I hope they walk away feeling like dammit. I can do that. I'm going to do it. I can't do that. What are the big move? We've already said sleep and you've given a good breakdown there. If there was a top three top five. However many you need for okay, the Pareto 80% of the results come from these things, one of those things. Yeah. So I first I would frame this in a moral philosophy. So I'd say if believe I guess first like your most prized possession is agency. Nothing values more than your agency. And right now most people's agency is compromised that they are not the architects of their life because they compulsively scroll. They compulsively eat fast food. They compulsively do all these addictive behaviors. And then when pressed on it, they rationalize it as virtue because they're trapped. And so challenge everyone here to say like reclaim yourself. Don't do anything you don't want to do. And that the enemy is the mother fucker who's trying to get you to do something that is not in your best interest. Fuck them. That is the enemy. And so like that gives you real moral power. Don't be puppeted. Now once you have that principle like I'm going to set my bedtime, I'm not going to doom scroll. I'm not going to eat that fucking bag of skittles. I'm not going to eat the fast food. That's poison. They're going to trick me into thinking it's a treat or something. You're like, but like that's what I think for me, the boundary conditions of like how you create the kind of energy state like I can do this. And I have a moral will to do it. Not just because of self-help, but I'm just fighting an enemy. I'm overcoming adversity. I'm a man standing on my agency or woman. Like that to me gives it the juice to like I have the will power to do it. Okay. Now that we've got the moral framework, one of the tactical things. Yeah. So once you have agency, you want to reclaim your will power. You need to have juice in the tank to say like I can make decisions that I can do it. So one is you want to master sleep. You want to build your entire life around sleep. That's very counterintuitive, but you want to plan when you go to bed, when your wind-ever team is, you want to set strict rules. You want to plan your lighting. Like again, you can choose your archetype, whether you're really regimented, whether you're like more flexible, like whatever your thing is, but just build your entire life around sleep. And if you need justification, realize those not doing that are 10 to 12 points stupider than you. Like they're actually dumb. So they take a retardation exercise for them. You're actually going to be smart. Once you do that, exercise because that also is going to boost your will power. So boost it with sleep, boost it with exercise. And then once you get those two down, then tackle food because food is the most complicated. Food is where we go to like soothe ourselves to do like the self therapy. So only tackle then, try to start just having a bit more good things for you. And if you less bad things, like slowly walk your way into it, radical change is hard for a lot of people, but it's like slow walking into. And then if you again have that in the back of your mind, like a rule, you will never, ever eat fast food, ever again. Like none is better than some. So there's no moderation. There's no ones that they, the idea of a cheat mill is the worst idea in history. Like don't do cheat days, don't do cheat mills, don't do cheat weeks, don't do cheat anything, don't cheat. When it comes to exercise, where for longevity, most people are already doing almost every of this listening is going to have some sort of training regime. I would imagine the vast majority of them are going to be something like a push per leg split. And maybe other people are runner boys and runner girls. If you were to design the minimum effective dose, this is where I think the blind spots are for people. What would you say exercise wise? I mean, I, because everyone's got their jam, well, just Pilates, wait, 20, whatever, just do it. Like just be active for roughly an hour a day, do cardio to strength, do balance to flexibility. Everyone's got their own preferences, but I think I don't go after the details here because there's endless material to go after, just be active and commit to some people like chicken, some people like salmon, some people like kale, some people like spinach. Exactly. And the same thing with food, like I don't get into the game of carnivore versus vegan versus paleo versus whatever, their abstractions, which are irrelevant, eat what you want, measure your body, make sure you're good, and then fine tune yourself. Like I have a don't die food guide, we tried to look through all the scientific evidence as a what are the very best foods in existence for the highest value evidence that you can put into your body. So we just said by a power law perspective, here's what I'd put on so I can show that as a plate. Outside of that, like do your thing, like just eat what you want, just measure your body, make sure you're good. Right. Okay. Bethlehem Blue, how do you get on with that? You know, I stopped it because I started 25 milligrams a day and then, oh, it was conflicting with, we started a therapy doing altitude training. So you take your blood oxygenation down to 80%. Who we did it and the two have conflicting mechanisms of action. And we realized it on day three. So we're like, we better stop Bethlehem Blue to do the therapy. So okay, it's Bethlehem Blue. It's like nicotine derivative, right? Or it's something to do with nicotine. I mean, synthetic diet, initially it was built because the surgeons wanted to see where they're actually in the surgical body. But it was actually FDA approved for, what was it? I forget you know, yes, FDA approved quite a while ago. But overall, we don't think that's really if we don't think it's worth it. Okay. As a therapy. Yeah, it's more for like mitochondrial health. Okay. Uh, brain testosterone. Yeah. The testosterone, the fucking whole moon of the 21st century. It is. What have you come to learn about testosterone? Yeah. So I mean like the 700s naturally. So just by doing all the basic stuff. What were you when you started? Do you know? I, I guess like, when I was 42, I don't know. I need to look at my data. Yeah. But if if a man is low on testosterone and the natural approaches are not addressing it, it probably makes sense to do something about it. Like being low testosterone just has really negative consequences. So yeah, go to one to watch out there. What are the ways to intervene naturally? Well, what are the biggest needle movements? Yeah. I mean, all the basics, right? Like sleep. Like, I think poor sleep, four hours of sleep a night will knock you down something like 10 to 20% on testosterone. So like really big drop. Less of a man again. Again. Yeah. Like high-satellitis. So then sleep, exercise, nutrition, like, all the basics. There's, I don't think there's a lot of proven supplementation that can move them needle. I think people. Without getting into pharmacology. Yeah. I think people have played a bunch of stuff. I don't, if I'm not mistaken, I'm not sure the clinical evidence is very strong there. I need to look at it. I guess I have never had low testosterone. So I've never had to look at supplementation as a means to do it. Yeah. So I guess I would be cautious in my knowledge is limited in terms of like the true evidence for clinical intervention. This thing that's interesting around sort of male hormone. I imagine it's the same for women, but I don't know anything about them. The relationship between it's such a fucking like balance beam of LHFSH, testosterone, free tea. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. As it should be. It is. There is no. It seems to me total fucking white belt. It seems to me like one intervention is not one intervention. It starts to roll away into this domino effect. Yeah. So talking about. I want my testosterone high. It's like, well, do you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you maybe ref SH? I mean, people that go on in clomaphine or HCG, chronically. Yeah. What is it? Like 20% or some big percent of them talk about that inducing depression. Yeah. You're okay. So you're worried that you had low energy because of your low testosterone, and you tried to take a non-exogenous solution to create that. So I'm going to kick start my own production by using these compounds. And in the process of doing that, I've made myself have depression, which almost certainly made your fucking. Forget low energy. You got low mood now. Yeah. And so yeah, be careful how you intervene with that, I think. That's very true. Yeah. It's like, I guess the way we thought about it is we approached this holistically. We just said our frame entirely is scientific evidence. Just like, what does the body of evidence say to do? And we took the most powerful molecules in the form of foods, supplements, and then lifestyle, sleep, diet, exercise, and then therapies, sauna, age, butt. And we just said like, take the very best high-performance, put it all into one package, and do the entire package. And it makes sense like, if you're taking care of the entire body on every level, you have these systematic effects. No, come online. Exactly. So I think people approach these things very narrowly, but like our hormones is a very. You see, like, microplastics. Microplastic in the testicles has a negative feedback loop for fertility and hormones. The same is true with toxins. So when we talk about testosterone, we're going to talk about microplacic intervention, which then leads back to sauna, which then leads back to. So we've tried to just be holistic. Give me the whole thing and let me build that into one daily practice. So I don't have to then try to figure out like this and that thing. Talking about daily practices. What's this 15-second phone call thing you're doing? Oh yeah, it's like friends, yeah. So a friend of mine introduces to me. So he. I became friends with this person, and he is. he's very powerful, and he would call me, and he'd be like, Brian, like blank statement. I say something to him and he's like, "I love you, see you." And I was like, that is amazing. It was so clean, it feels so good, and we just did that through like a couple months, and we built this amazing friendship. And. 15-second friendship. And it was like. But it was like this deep, and I guess I imagine on my mind, like I imagine what his day must be like. He's juggling all kinds of crazy things. He clearly does not have time for like sit down and hang out, do this and that, but yet he does such a great job of maintaining really meaningful, like, deep relationships. So when he says he loves you, he's like, you fill it, he's like, he's not just saying it. And so I appreciated his model of friendship so much, because before I was stuck in this idea that, hey, Chris, you want to hang out, you know? To make do, that's fucking abbie and b, I'll buck a week off work. Yeah, then it's like a four-hour thing, right? But he's calling you like, hey man, like, what's up, how you doing? And like, you can answer because you know I'm not going to tip you on the phone for 20 minutes. Yeah, right. I mean, I did this series Life Hacks on the show when I first started, and we do one every year now at Christmas. And back in the day, when that was one of the big thrusts of the show, we'd often get asked, okay, what, 500 or 1000 Life Hacks that you'd do? Yeah, yeah. One of the highest impact ones. The first one is always sleep with your phone outside of your bedroom. But it's an instant 10 to 15% improvement in quality of life and that one thing. So that's actually before sleep. Let's take the charges outside of your bedroom and put it in the kitchen. But the second one was text your friends when you think of them. Yes. And this is my equivalent of the 15th second friendship. Yeah. And it's just, hey man, like, thinking of you, hope you're well, like, whatever. Or a photo that you think about your friend and you find an old photo and you send it. And it really speed runs friendship. You become tighter friends with people who you've known for less long, the people that you've known longer that you don't do that with or don't do it with you. And I really loved it. And it really brined my day. And it felt like I was doing something good for someone at the very low cost. It was like high impact. It was a high leverage friendship, right? Very, very low investment, very, very high impact. A little bit of a giggle and it keeps it going. Exactly. And the other thing it does, which is, I guess, a hack from my world of running nightclubs. It's an idea of a assume familiarity. Yes. So assuming familiarity in this context is most people that don't know each other particularly well have this sense that any text has to be super verbose. Yes. Hello, dear Brian. I hope that you are in the family are well. I must congratulate you on it as opposed to like funny meme or whatever. Hey man, thank you. Hope all's good. Whatever, right? Like not even you can take it a little bit too far and it sounds a bit entitled or a bit like brisk or like sharp, expectant. But if I'm like, dude, love the YouTube video. By the way, I'm an age, but how long am I supposed to breathe it for? Like, that's, oh, thank you for fucking consuming my shit. And for the respect, by the way, here's a thing. I don't need to, we don't need for play. Yeah. Let's get into it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, since we hung out in Prospera, we've been doing that. Bullshit. No talk for three months. And then I talk for three months. And I feel as fluid with you as I feel with any friend I've had or any duration of time, like we get each other, like we're on the same wavelength, we decide to have each other's lives. Like most of my friends, I'm actually I'm really surprised. Most of my friends who are powerful and successful and famous are lonely. Right? Like they, um, they work all the time. They have work relationships. But the amount of time they have to be down and hanging out is so small. And so if you don't have some mechanism to create deep friendships and time is not your, you can't use time. You have to use something else. Yeah. And so it needs it needs to be a longer lever. Exactly. And so I just, I've just been surprised that people have this perception that they always perceive others like they must have it all. But loneliness is a real thing. And so I guess again, I say this for those who are listening, if you feel lonely, right? Understand. Like your pattern is pretty similar to other people patterns, independent of resources or position or power status. The people at the top of the tree are struggling with the loneliness. Exactly. And so I mean, and this is the cool thing is like when I've talked to my friends and like they'll disclose that. And like it's a really, yes, me. It's a, it's a scary thing. Yeah, it is to actually disclose that. It's like, I don't have any friends. Like I had a friend of mine connected me with the celebrity today, like one of the a list celebrities in in Hollywood. I said, talk to this person. I said, once you come over to my house, we'll do a, don't I dinner? Get 10 or 15 of your favorite people. Come on over and like, I'll do this whole thing and explain it. And they said, I don't really have any friends. And yeah, it was like just such a shocking moment because like they are epicenter celebrity. And one is cool. They just said that. And two has like amazing. So like, I will put the group together for you. Come on over. We'll have a great time. But yeah, just like so people realize it's a very common thing in our modern society. So nothing to feel ashamed about or feel bad about. Like you can make these corrective actions by doing like small things like voice notes. And also by by making the bar so low, if you swing and with it and this person doesn't actually really want to be friends. Yeah, exactly. And whatever it doesn't think you're cool or they're too busy or whatever the fuck they're not, they're not ready to be friends. Yeah. You haven't invested anything. You know, you sent, you tried to, you met somebody, you sent them a few texts like, whatever. Like you know, I was still looped back to that thing I said about the emotions piece before. So I understand what you mean with regards to sort of creating a philosophy. But I am still interested in what the practices are and how you look to prioritize the emotional well-being, the social element, if there is a spiritual element to this too. And how you come to think about how to say it off spreadsheet. Yeah. Yeah. Of longevity and well-being. Yeah. So in 2025, we did five, don't die summits. We did 1500 people. They were all sold out. We brought people together and we did, we experimented with different formats, but we brought them together. We did education courses. We did raves like seven in the morning. It was amazing. We had so much fun. We did group exercises. We did group therapy stuff. So I think 2026, so we learned a lot by doing this. We're going to do this in 2026 where I've been actually piloting a don't die fam in my neighborhood. So I've got several friends and we had this format where we get together every week. First, we take a shot of olive oil, ritualistic. And then we each go around and we apologize to our body for something we did that week. Okay. And so it's kind of funny. We're literally close to a religion here. It's kind of funny. It's kind of fun. And then we go around and each person talks about what's on their mind and what they're struggling with. And so it's a very like open floor, supportive. Alcoholics anonymous. It's like, Waipyo, AA. It's a very similar format. It's kind of stamped out through various organizations. But it's basically like small intimate trusted group where you can be vulnerable. And there's a specific approach where you're focusing on don't die. But really it's about human connection. It's about sharing and what you're struggling with. So whether it's that or something else, we're trying to figure out how if don't die is to become the fastest growing ideology in history. We're trying to figure out what is the path for that to happen. And so it can happen in small clusters around the world. We could even have physical locations. We could have something like a sovereign fund where we have a cat, you know, we pull our capital and we start funding things together. So there's we're sorting on community connection, emotional, social in 2026. The past couple of years have been like, how do you create something novel, sticky, distinct, and create a structure around it. And now we're going to create the wrapper. So it's just like the next stage of a wrap. Very cool. When we first have a spoke, however long ago that was, I asked you a question about, I didn't use this word, but the grief of not starting earlier, the potential resentment that you can place at your caregivers and your friends and your culture of this didn't happen earlier. And the entropy, you started on the other side of the rollercoaster, right? You're like, oh, fuck, like I'm fighting against it. It's supposed to improving it. You know, like I can't get younger in the same way as I could have gotten you're at least slowed it down or whatever. I'm interested in your relationship with that dynamic now, a few years hence more time to think what could have been, but also to think why can't by focusing on that, I'm losing the very time which I'm claiming is now being more limited that it seems like a very stupid way to spend my life. Where have you come into land with, you said before, I think it's a really good point, it's not too late, you can reverse or you slow down, like you can really, really make great progress no matter where you are. But the emotional connection to what could have been, how do I've started earlier, what I've done to my body, the grief, that stuff, what's your relationship at that like now? Yeah, I mean, as you might guess, you know, I now, I view this question through the moral frameworks, right, like basically the premise of the question is that I'm in a low status position because of these preceding events, you know, that I didn't, I didn't have parents that knew health and wellness when I was a kid. I didn't understand health and wellness myself in my 20s. I fell prey to cultural norms to say, you said, destroy yourself, right? And so the way I evaluate any person answering your question is how skilled are they in taking a low status position and converting it to high status? Like how do you flip the question for me to find virtue in my place and attribute, you know, charity to what's what's preceded because really it never makes sense for a person to wallow and grief. Like yes, it makes sense to reconcile, like to be honest, like we can acknowledge that may have been a mistake, you know, we can contemplate, you know, we wish it wouldn't have happened, but really you don't want to sit in negative emotions. It's just not good for you. You don't want to beat yourself up. And so you can either take a step where you say, I'm reconciled, I'm neutral, like I'm fine with it, or you can say I'm going to invert it. But that's what I've really learned more than anything in my life. This is what I try to train my kids is don't be subject. Don't lose your agency and be subject to pain. That is self-induced. You can choose how you feel. This is kind of like Victor Frankl's man, so tremendous, right? He's in the concentration camp and he's like, I'm not going to let these conditions determine my state of mind. I'm going to choose that state of mind myself. But that's really ultimate agency. And so I've take your question and I would invert it and be like, this is the most interesting time in the history of four point, whatever a billion years that we've been on this planet. I am so fortunate to be alive right now. And I'm like in my 40s where I'm still like in my prime. And I can have a meaningful impact on what happens to human race. Like that is a possibility. So I wouldn't trade anything under any circumstance to trade the positionment right now because it's the coolest moment in the history of human race. And so like quick inversion. And now I'm like damn pretty cool. I'm probably pumped about the situation. My shoulders are relaxed a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember you tweeting a while ago. Do you think you're going to die in a super ironic way? Of course. Guaranteed. Yeah. How's that possible? It's for sure. I mean, so this morning when I was coming here. I was opening a glass jar of sourcrout, fermented sourcrout. I popped it and it sliced my fingers in three places, bleeding all over the place. And I was like, you know, what if I die from like a glass bottle of fermented sourcrout? Like, wouldn't that be just like beautifully ironic? So yes, like, I hope it's spectacular. I hope it's really something epic and not something lame. sourcrout would be a cool way to go. I mean, I guess like, you tell me what would be like an epic. Oh, wow. What is the timeline? We go like, okay, like ready to go with that. That would be cool. I mean, sort of car action, a 70s action movie rolling down a huge cliff would be that seems like a pretty cool way to go. Certainly not being the passenger of a plane where the pilot decides that he's sick and he just wants to crash it into a into a mountainside. That would suck. Something, something that's just me, something that I don't want to take anybody else with me. If it's, if I'm going to go up in flames, like, you know, hit by a bus, but the bus goes on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like caught in the action, caught in the act of adventure. Right. Like, like, you're doing your thing, you're pushing the boundaries during your happy state eating fermented foods. Yeah. You know, like, I think of Shackleton, you know, and I think of his going to the Antarctic and their survival to that, like, you know, they were already to have a noble death. Like, we wouldn't have found out about it. It would have been gone to history, but still, you know, they were, I like that kind of. I love those stories. There's a book that you may love if you like Alfred Lansing's Endurance, which is the best retelling of Shackleton's crossing, I think. There's a wonderful one called the Forgotten Highlander, my Alistair card. British soldier, Scottish, captured by the Japanese, bridge over the River Quay, forced labor, Hiroshima, bomb blasts, like everything, everything, everything, everything. And then I read Unbroken. Unbroken. Louis Amperini. So I only, I'd never even know, because I'm not American, right? So I would get Shackleton and I would get Alistair card, but I'd never get Zamperini. I didn't even know existed. And he like meets Hitler at the fucking Olympics, and he goes through all of this stuff. So if you like Unbroken, dude, the Forgotten Highlander will take your head off. Yeah, I'm broken. That broke me. I mean, like, he's like on his raft, getting shot at from the Japanese airplanes, underneath the out raft, getting it by sharks, back on the raft of bullet holes, like, and that's like on day 142 of not eating food. Yeah, the dudes eating all the chocolate. You're like, you're best mate. Yeah, there's a lot of fucking chocolate. Yeah, dude, and those stories to me are wonderful. I ruptured in Achilles 2020, Plank Rocket, fully British. And as a couple of friends that had been through some sort of similarly traumatic injuries, you know, big fuck off severe thing. Yeah. And they said, the obstacle is the way by Ryan Holiday. Forgotten Highlander by Alistair card. Ross Edgeley's book, The Art of Resilience, which is about his swim around the first person to swim around the UK. Oh, yeah. Six hours on six hours off. Yeah. And then Amazon Prime documentary called resurfaced with Andy Murray. Andy Murray's tennis player, Scottish tennis player, Liddyscotts. And he gets a hip replacement. That lateral movement means that hips really get tested in tennis players. And he's aging out a little. And they try and do rehab. They try and do surgery. It's just not working. And really the only solution I think is maybe ceramic socket with a steel joint. But it's not meant for a high impact sport. It's very smooth and very reliable. And the outcomes are great. But not if you're pushing it to the sort of steel up against ceramic like porcelain or whatever it is. And it's just this journey of him going through it and he's working in his house. He's just obsessive, just so unrelenting. And those sorts of stories I think are really empowering and really enlightening. I'm very inspiring. And it's the ability, what I'm really interested in playing with now is the ability to take that kind of inspiration, be like, fuck, like I've been kicked in the nuts a good bit this year. All right, you got this. Like you can lean in. You can do this thing. And then being able to I switch it off. That's right. I need to be able to switch it off. If I can't switch it off, then I am pressing the accelerator driving downhill. Yes. I'm giving myself more of the thing that I already have too much of. Yes. So playing with that tolerance. I like a dose dependent inspiration in that way. Yeah. It's a U-shaped curve. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You need just in like two little, you're not doing anything. Yeah. Yeah. Too much. You're wide, but tired. Like just about riding. It's probably the skill set society needs the most help on right now because everyone is right up to the red. Actually in the red zone and just they're constantly. It's I think it's probably like a chronic thing of our society. Brian Johnson, ladies and gentlemen, did you agree? I really appreciate you. I appreciate your friendship. What can people expect next? However long of yours months, what's what's coming up? Well, I this is my prediction. AI is center stage already for society. It will continue to be center stage. I'm not talking about time frame of the six months or 12 months, but like over the next few years, it's going to just continually to be evolved to be the primary thing of our attention. And as that happens, we are going to want the stability to understand the world in ways that makes us feel safe. That we have meaning and purpose that things are stable. And I think this is where don't die. We'll step in. It will be a structurally sound coherent, emotionally resident ideology and moral philosophy that actually answers the most important questions for us as a species. Individually, collectively, with AI, with the planet, like we're just due for a revolution. So yeah, in the coming years, that's what I hope to bring to the world is like that we actually can find coherence in our existence and realize the spectacular nature of this moment, the most precious thing it's ever existed. And it's like really ours. We get an invitation to sober up, realize how special this is. And for us, we need to prove ourselves worthy of the future. We oftentimes don't think about like we want to be, we want to demonstrate our value to our peers, to our co-workers, to our family, to our partners. I think that same relationship exists to the future that it really does ask us to rise up. And so I hope, above all, I hope I'm a positive influence to people's lives, that when they find themselves in moments of struggle or weakness, they've got somebody in their court saying like, you can do this. And yeah, so I'm just really excited about what's happening. I feel like I've been working my entire life at this moment, and I'm excited to play the game. I'm excited to see what happens when I just don't do the fucking, don't start wearing white robes, grow your hair out. I don't want to see the cult leader pivot, but what I do think is cool is the like sanguine self awareness thing. I think that's really important to like just read it out. You mentioned a couple of resources, like a food guide or something. Is there any cool lead magnetly bits that people can snag that? Yeah, so I'll give you the food guide. I'm also, I'm publishing, I have a website protocol that Brian Johnson.co.com and I'm hopefully in the next couple of weeks, I'll repost all my updated stuff. So if you want to just see my journey and what I'm doing now and why, I'll have it there for you. So like a free guide. And then I'm also ready to book. So don't die. So I'm halfway through. And it's basically going to be like hopefully a guide. And then yeah, I'm trying to make this easy. I know it's a lot. And then also I just we just raised 60 million for blueprint. And so yeah, what's going on with that? What is that? Yeah. So basically, blueprint is don't die in action. And so in the same way where you say, if I want to go to this destination, I put it in address, go and it tells me what streets to go down or where the construction, where the crashes blueprint is going to be basically like AI for your health. It's like you say, I want to be healthy. And we say, come on in, we got you. And so it will take us some time to build that. But that's what I have today with my team of doctors. Like I just follow practice where we measure me, we get the data, we look at evidence, we say, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this. Doing this is good. Exactly. So I don't have to chase all these esoteric hard things. So blueprint is basically like autonomous health for humans. Or I just say like, I want to be healthy and you get into a system. And now we just run the data evidence repeat again. So hopefully like that's like exciting time. So it feels like, uh, and now you're going back to where you started back into founder mode. I hope that you don't take your eye off what the ball is supposed to be with regards to that like the temptation man to be who we could build it more. And this is time. It's good. This time it's for humanity. Yeah. You go, well, yeah, the service is good, but so is looking after like serving you first. Yeah. Yeah. You're like the the one thing I care to accomplish in life. Like everything else can go by the wayside. The one thing is what is high status. That's the only game I care to play. And so from specifically from the frame of from the perspective of the year 2,500 when they look back at this moment and they're looking at moments to say, uh, play the Aristotle Renaissance. I mean like, they'll say a new era was born of a new status seeking thing. And that's otherwise like the entrepreneurship stuff like I really enjoy it. It's been my jam, but that's not where I want this to work. I want to be successful. It's actually a practical manifestation, but I have one objective and existence as that. Fuck yeah. Ryan, I appreciate you man. Until next time, I'm looking forward to the book. Thanks man.