#102 Sales Enablement in the AI Native World- with Laura Fu, Head of RevOps & Strategy at DevRev

[MUSIC] Welcome to the Revolution Lab, a podcast exploring the art and science of revenue operations. To find more episodes and resources on scaling your revenue engine visit get weflow.com/revolution. [MUSIC] We know, we know, there are plenty of AI note takers out there. But there's only one purposely build for Salesforce. And that is Weflow. Weflow doesn't just record, transcribe and summarize your meetings. It also suggests Salesforce field updates, for medics, spies, next steps, or any other custom framework that you want to implement. This works across any of your standard or custom objects and across all field types, like multipick lists, text, number, and currency fields. Weflow also writes AI-based follow-up emails, saving your reps even more time. And the AI coach analyzes recordings to help your reps run better sales meetings. And the best part? We've lost real-time two-way Salesforce integration works out of the box. No manual field, my pain, no complex setup. You'll be up and running in 30 minutes and you benefit from our create support. It helps you customize the prompts based on your business requirements. If you want to see what hundreds of your Brevrop's peers use Weflow to get better sales for Stata and Rep Productivity, just go to GetWeflow.com to get your free trial today. [MUSIC] Hello and welcome to another episode of the Reprop's Lab podcast. I'm here with Philip and our guest today is Laura Foo. Laura, welcome back. Thanks so much, Janice. Thanks for having me. Yeah, great to see you again. I actually joined your podcast a few weeks ago. Now you're back. You can't. You wrote a book. Yeah, so it's live. It's published in pre-order. Before we dive into the book and digest, you know, what you wrote about. Maybe for the audience who don't know you yet. Like, who are you? What do you do? Yeah. So I'm Laura and I currently work at DevRev, which is an AI native company. We are an AI platform that help connect all of your company data so that you can ask questions to the agents and make sure that all of your data is LLM ready. I run RevOps at DevRev and I also have the SDR function. Okay, interesting. Well, I actually didn't know that. That's a very interesting combination. And I think very timely with, you know, signal-based outbound and agents you can build. But that's not the topic of today. Today is essentially, you know, talking about your book, "Designing for Excellence, Sales and Abiment in an AI native world." We actually had a previous podcast episode with you where we talked about sales and abement best practices. And so, I mean, maybe let's kick off with like, why did you write that book? Yeah, thank you. Also, I'm going to actually show it, show the book right here too. This is the book. And I wrote this book because I was actually challenged earlier this year by Deer Archpande, who is our CEO of DevRev. And enablement used to roll up into me as well. And now we've hired an amazing head of enablement. So, one thing less of my plate. But at the time, you know, he asked me, "Hey, can you write down your thoughts on what good enablement looks like and what that might look like in an AI native world?" And I was, you know, I was anxious to do that. And when I finally started writing it sometime in April, I started realizing that this document, all this white paper that I was writing was like becoming so lengthy. And I was like, "I think this is a book." So, I started like drafting out the sections. And I was like, "This is enough to make a book, you know?" And I finished the first manuscript. I finished it in about six weeks. And then I doubled it in the next two weeks. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think this is the way how to write books, right? You actually don't intend to write it. And then you start off, and it becomes like a whole thing. So, congratulations on that. Huge achievement by itself, I think. And as mentioned by others, it's up for pre-order. So definitely, we're put the link to the show notes. So, people know where to pre-order it. But one thing in the title, I find very interesting. And that is the second part of it, the AI in 8.4. And I'm just curious, how would you define that actually? I had that recently, someone coming up to me and said, "Yeah, but what is AI ative? What does that even mean?" Like, you know, like digital and AI ative, so sort of like, what is the step that we are taking here? Yeah. So, I think about AI native as where AI is built into the system so that we are doing things in a fundamentally different way because of the new AI capabilities that we have, not just that we're doing it faster or better, but we're doing it differently because of the systems and the situation that we have. Okay. Got it. Okay. So, can anybody, any company turn to an A9 native company in your mind? Or do you have to be sort of like, started as an A9 native company? That's an interesting question. I think that if you are building an organization from scratch, you would, by definition, be an AI native company if you adopt that AI native tools and situation, as, you know, tool systems and processes. But if you are wanting to upgrade your existing systems, let's say you're upgrading your sales in a moment program and you want to make your go-to-market team more AI native, I think that requires some breaking down of your of your processes. So, it might look like one part of it is AI native and the rest of it is still, you know, legacy, maybe with both on AI. We're doing the same things. We're just doing it a little bit faster and better with AI. That would be how I would answer the question. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. Makes sense. I think also break in my opinion, any company has a chance to become like a native company. They really just like, I think they do have the chance to. Certainly should be possible. I would be sad if that wasn't like possible. But maybe let's just dive into the book. Curious sort of like how did you structure it? You know, what are you kind of like try to cover particularly, I think, in the first chapter, probably makes sense that we take it step by step and just go through the book. Yeah, kind of like one chapter at a time to understand sort of like the, the create a picture that you are painting with it. So the book is actually structured in five sections. And the first part of the book section one and two cover the guiding principles of sales enablement and also core outcomes and metrics. And you know, we talked a lot about those in our last podcast last year, which is just around sales enablement in general, like the principles of sales enablement, how we get a sales organization up to speed up and running and ongoing, like what are the things that we should continue to do. So that in the sense have nothing to do with these are just like best practices of the program itself. And then we go into section three, which is the enablement fly wheel. And the enable and fly wheel talks about the five pillars of the fly wheel that that I required for it to you know, spin and kind of move. And one of those pillars specifically talks about sales engagement tools and the new things that AI native companies are doing and what those tools look like. And so like starting in section three is where we start talking about how AI actually changes the way we think about all of these pillars. Section four is around what you need to get there, like what actually needs to change what kind of platforms, what kind of systems you might need to adopt. And then the last part is just a closing around sales enablement in the AI native world, like why you want to do it and why that's going to be important for you moving forward, like a closing section. Yeah, awesome, awesome. And maybe you know, let's start with like just as a recap of our last conversation, like what are the five core principles that define effective sales enablement? So we're going to go there. Okay, so the first one, the first one is around enablement driving the performance through systems. And I think we talked about this before where enablement is not a single person. It's not like the onboarding program. It's actually all of these things in combination. And it's actually the ecosystem. You know, one thing that I think we tend to forget is that the ecosystem of marketing, R&D, like all of those things are actually part of go to market enablement as well. Right? And then the second part is around enablement requiring motivation and reinforcement. And that, you know, you can you can need a horse to water and you can give all of the amazing assets that the Rebellion's. But if they're not motivated because they're not inspired by where the company is going, they're not going to consume it. So it actually requires a lot of motivation and continuous reinforcement because people need to hear something seven times before they remember it. Okay. Third one is reps deserve clarity and that brings confidence. I think a lot of times, especially in startups, right? Like the industry is changing, the messages, the message is changing. The focus changes, quarter of a quarter. If we as leaders are not bringing that clarity on like what's most important and telling the reps, shares what's most important, shares what was important last quarter and here's how we're threading the needle to this quarter, that's actually going to bring the more confusion and confusion of impacts confidence. I think a lot of what we talk about in sales and in the moment is about like how to get the reps inspired and confident about the thing that they're selling. Okay. And then the last one here is that rep development is owned by their managers and supported by a new woman that it's not just something that you outsource to an evil mind, like you got to own it. Yeah. I love all these. I mean, I think the principle of communication repeating something seven times, reinforcement learning, not just saying it once. And I think that's also why the manager plays such a big role because if they don't do it day to day, right? Like you as a like an element function will be very hard. So I think the enablement of the managers is one of the key glues to actually drive performance. And similar, right? Like if you're a manager and you don't care about that, like if you don't motivate it, similar to the reps, right? It's just impossible to get you there. And I think we've all had these situations where we had colleagues that just go and they want to learn more and they want to go and they're motivated. And then we have people that are just not that way. Some of them can still be very successful because they've been there and done this for a long time. But like generally more fun to work with the kind of other half, I'd say leads for me personally. So let's, I mean, so I think we could obviously dissect all these things, right? Like we don't do that today because we've done that in the last one. But I want to, I mean, I think you have this idea of like great, like, okay, let's assume you do all this, right? What do you focus on in terms of metrics that you measure and what are metrics that matter and what are metrics that maybe just like lagging indicators of success, right? So I think you have that section in your book. And to me, this has always been like, you know, obviously like the end goal is like test productivity, right? Like, or AR per hat or you know, car paybacks or right, like you can look at it in different metrics. But these are all like lagging indicators of success. So what do you measure? How do you know that like these enabling programs actually bear fruit? Now, my number one measure that is lagging for sales enablement, but leading for the Gold Market organization is pipeline. The ability for the rep to create pipeline and the activities associated with creating that pipeline is really interesting, right? Because you know, we think sometimes when we become a rep that works, we get all these pipeline from the SDRs and I'm going through that right now, you know, since I own the SDRs. But if you think about it, if pipeline is lifeline, we've heard about that pipeline is lifeline, right? But then we're leaving our lifeline to, you know, these newly graduated SDRs or people that have a lot less experience and we're expecting them to develop some of these conversations that wouldn't happen without them. It's kind of crazy, right? So I actually think that pipeline, the ability to create pipeline is owned by the rep. And if they are able to actually do a good job with opening up those conversations, establishing the pain that the company has, the rest of the stuff like closing the deal and, you know, getting the technical demonstration done and validation and the POCs, like those things, they're going to have a lot of help with the SCs going to help them, you know, the entire executive team is going to come on board and negotiate. That's all, that's all for me, lagging stuff. The leading stuff is are you actually able to have a conversation, open that up and get a customer to buy into the evaluation cycle? To do that, you're going to need to have a really good handle of the product, the solutions it solves and the ability to be creative in terms of what your customer needs, identifying their pain and then matching those two things together. Okay, so that for me is, if they can do it, they're productive. Productivity for me is, can they build pipeline? And then the measure is, okay, well, how much pipeline do they need? Usually we just say, okay, well, for the next quarter, they need three, three X of, well, you know what, their quarter is, are they meeting that number or not? That's my key number one metric. I mean, so this is very much not what I expected. So that's great. I love it. I totally get it. But like, what does it mean to create pipeline? Does that mean that they basically should span 80% of their time on prospecting? Or are you, like, you know, like, so what would be your expectation towards, like, let's say, a MQL, and then do you mean like the conversion of an MQL, let's say, you know, it's like loosely qualified, it comes inbound, or it comes via like an SDR, and then they can use that and then they basically, you know, convert that into a qualified opportunity. Or are you basically talking about them going out and doing the SDR job or doing the marketing job? Or maybe a combination of both. And I don't know, but yeah, I think super curious what you think about that. So it's getting and it's getting a lead to a qualified opportunity stage, right? Okay. Where the getting that lead is getting it from the SDR, it's getting it from marketing, it's orchestrating the combination and the interaction of the lead attending an event. And then, you know, getting followed up by the SDR or them calling the lead themselves or meeting them at networking events, whatever. It can be a variety of things that they're doing upfront to get it to a qualified opportunity. Right? And Ed Devrev and in many other playable companies, you know, there are specific qualifying activities that we do. Two of them are one is the discovery meeting and the other is the new business meeting, which is like the echo back to the customer on what their pain was and how we might be able to help them. And if we can train our reps to do those two things really well, then that becomes a pipeline opportunity. Those two things are the leading activity that gets to the pipeline number. Yeah. And just curious about that one. So how did you identify those as being the leading indicators? Was this because like here you saw basically the biggest breakoff in the conversion funnel? With like, you know, sort of like in quotation marks now for our listeners, bad reps, or like reps that are not performing that well versus like reps that are really high performing. Or how did you identify this? I mean, like it just be clear, right? It makes total sense to me. Sure, sure. Like listening to it. I'm just curious if there was a quantitative yeah, system to get to that. So it's actually a metric that I've used over the last three or four companies that have been at and we developed this actually at sprinkler where you talked about, you know, how productivity is actually the how pipeline is is equal to productivity in the beginning and that leads to eventual performance. And we actually did do an analysis. The reps that were able to create their pipeline and were able to execute on these activities upfront and earlier in the cycle, they were actually closing business in the six, seven month of their ramp compared to the ninth, tenth month, right? And a lot of it is just because sales cycles, they take a long time and if you're not staying on your new reps and you're like forcing them, you're kind of forcing them into productivity, they're just going to lag, you know, by the time their ramp period is over, they won't have enough pipeline and they're focusing on let's say closing a deal that, you know, maybe in-bomb marketing brought them, right? But then they're not training, they're not honing the skills that are actually needed to open those conversations, which is what they're going to need to do on an ongoing basis. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I fully agree. I think it's one of the hardest things I think to do as a rep, right? I think it's building your own pipeline and expanding it. I think it always depends very much on the company that you work for and like the type of product and the stage and so on, but yeah, 100%. And I think this cycle is nice into section three because like basically if you saying, okay, this is, you know, like the really the leading behavior indicator, and you know, what you outlined earlier when you gave an overview of the different sections, like building an able-man fly that is really focused on coaching and content. But so this is where it's all about, like you have to sort of like qualify them, understand the problem, understand that pain, reflect that back to them, really understand the product and be confident about it so you can also speak confidently about it to the prospect which then again projects you know confidence for them into the product and so on and so on. You know what I'm getting at here. Yeah, yeah. Just curious. So yeah, fill in to the flywheel. So how are you basically building an enablement flywheel then for this leading behavioral indicators? Hey, Philip here. Are you enjoying this episode? Well, good news because you can find more three revops and go to market resources on get reflow.com/rethops. Access over 20 cheat sheets, reports and guides that will help you become a better revenue operator or join over 2000 subscribers who already get the latest resources right into the inboxes without a free newsletter. Just go to get reflow.com/rethops. So the flywheel is structured in actually it's actually three components plus a fourth one in the middle. Okay, so the four components are four pillars are content which is the foundation. Like we got to have the right content right assets. That's okay. Right. Okay, second is programs. The programs are the thing that continuously deliver the content and how that works. Okay, there could be a sales onboarding program. It could be ongoing learning program. Like what those programs are. The third pillar is the sales engagement tools. Like what do we use for sales enablement and how do we make sure that it helps the rep engage within the flow of their work? Sometimes we think about tools as some place you go to do something versus something that goes into the work that you're already doing. So that's the third section and then the middle section which is like the engine I guess is it's the analytics pillar. You know, and how how do that how does that actually how does that actually measure and make sure that we are on the right track? You know, so just like like how how does it wrap users then basically on a day-to-day basis? Right, so yeah, so okay, so if you think about it in these three things in the analytics, okay, the idea behind an AI native flywheel is that this whole thing is a closed loop. It's in real time. It delivers the feedback to the the rep and the manager in a way that can be adjusted so that it's not so that it can actually impact outcomes. Okay, so example, there is a new there's a new product that we are launching, right? And as part of new product that we're launching, we have some marketing assets and we've got some enablement assets that we want to train the rep on. First, the content is created and it's delivered to the rep in a way that is popping up in their day-to-day work. So maybe it's you know, part of their Slack channel when they when they open it up. It's like, hey, your enablement bit of the day. It's something that they can consume in a very easy way and it's not like they have to block off time in their calendar and they have to go through the whole thing. You know, it's real consumable, real easy. Maybe it's even in a deal that they're filling out. They're like, oh, you know, they just had a customer conversation and the the system should be able to identify that gap and say, oh, you might be interested in this new piece of product that we're launching. Okay, and it shows it to them. They'll read it in the moment because right now at that moment, it is relevant to them. Okay, but the content has to be good, right? So that's where programs come into come into play. Like, how are we delivering that content to the rep in a moment that they're actually going to care? Most of us, when we go to enablement sessions, we're like, ah, I might learn something, but it's always like, I got to take time out my day to do it. You know, people learn when it's absolutely in that moment relevant to them. So it's like within the deal cycle or they're talking to you know, their co-workers in a Slack channel. Like, it would be great if they had this thing. He sounds like you're talking about this. Like, have you heard of her about this thing? Okay, then part of that, part of that program could be, hey, do you want to practice? Do you want to practice pitching it? Like, how would you say it to your customer? Right? A little like AI avatar can come up and talk to them and they can preach, well, this is what I'm thinking. The tool itself is the system of enablement is a real life avatar that can actually coach them through what they're going to say. They can practice it. What are the things that the customers are going to do or whatever? And the analytics portion can be related to that, which is where the analysts can tell you, well, you talk too much or you should revise these things. And it can also feed back, let's say all of these conversations that we had around this new product that we were trying to release that you were trying to educate the reps on. It should feed back to the product marketing team and tell them, these conversations worked really well when they said these things. This asset didn't work so well. You know, one of the tools that is actually in my book here or two is, it's a self-learning, self-updating deck where based on your conversation with the customer, the deck actually just updates. You know, here's what we hear it. Here's what the solutions should be, etc. I think that is so cool because that's what we need. It's like before going to the slide where like, oh, well, maybe this isn't relevant anymore. It changes so that you can actually have a relevant conversation. Now, I think it's so interesting. As you know, we're in the AI node-taker space, so we have a conversation intelligence product. Basically, after the meeting, every meeting gets scored against your sales methodology. You have self-coaching feedback immediately built into the conversation. And reps go there anyways because they want to send a follow-up email, which is then AI generated, or they want to update some sales force fields, which is automated with AI and they have the summary, they might check out the specific pricing conversations or so. So it's basically in the flow of their work. They don't need to do any additional things. And I think where this is all heading, it's very much like, why would I not have a pitching conversation with an AI avatar? Why would I not have basically the entire product documentation delivered at the right time? When it's actually relevant to me. And I think this goes further with the content that is created and so on. Again, I think in the podcast we recorded in your podcast, we talked about the AI's use cases. I think some of those things are still not available on the market. Some of these things are very much available. But I think that's where it's all going. And that's what's possible today. I really love this, you know, like learn when it's relevant for you to learn because, right, like I get a question from a customer. I don't have the answer, but I want to know the answer, but I forget about it like two days later. So ideally, then it should be surfaced, right? All right, after. And I think those things are things that are being built these days. And I think it's quite an exciting time out. Just some thoughts. I think something's the ability that AI gives us right now is speed, right? It's like capturing on time. Like we could do this all analysis at the back and which is what we used to do. We would download everything, all the stuff and you know, we'd do all the data and we'll look for trends. And and now we don't need to do that anymore. Like the system can just tell us what's good and what's bad. But then we have to actually act on it. We have to be set up to receive that feedback in a real time manner that does something different for the rep. So for example, if we are getting all of this information about which assets work really well and which don't, which is confusing, the teams themselves have to be agile enough to be able to address that, right? And like change the content, change pricing, maybe, you know. And we know that those things traditionally are like three quarter projects, year long projects, right? So if we're not actually set up for the AI native system. And actually that's that's what suit the section four of my book talks about, which is like what what does it actually take and a big part of what it takes is well, the organization itself has to be set up for it. This otherwise it's a waste, you know, you get the feedback. But then you're not you're not able to adjust and be agile in real time. Yeah, I mean, I think this is this is generally a huge challenge, right? Like you go to an environment session and basically someone who is maybe not in the day-to-day weeds shows you something that has no of no data that is backed up. Yes. To basically say, hey, you do this, you're more successful. Every rep out there wants to be more successful, but they need to believe that it actually drives success. And so if it's detached from their day-to-day reality, it's actually really hard. So obviously, from an enabling perspective, leveraging the core transcripts, leveraging the data that you have to actually identify what works, what doesn't work, is I think the feedback loop that has been also missing. So you basically inform the programs, inform the content, inform the best practices. But maybe going back to what's needed to get there. This is obviously fundamentally changing. We're basically before the SKO season. OK, let's do it once a year. And then we're done. Just joking, right? So what needs to happen to implement what you're outlining in your book? Yeah. I think a lot of what we talked about in Section 1 and 2, which is around the best practices of enablement. First, that has to be done. If we're not thinking about enablement as a whole company problem, just like pipeline as a whole company problem, then fundamentally, we can have the best systems. You could set up this best amazing flywheel with all of the great tools that you have. It's just not going to have the same impact. So the mindset around enablement, I think, has to change fundamentally. The second thing is just like, I think, any kind of enable-- AI mindset shift, right? The organization itself has to get ready for AI. And be ready that things are going to change faster. And they have to be ready to say, hey, I know I may have used this legacy tool for a long time. But it's actually not going to be working anymore for what we want to do as an AI native process. And it could be like the CRM, right? I'm not saying CRM's are going away. But I am also saying that my eventual vision is that we live in a CRM free world because any kind of data that we want, we can just ask the AI and the AI will tell us, well, this is the answer. This is your ever sales cycle. You don't actually have to do any data analysis. And making those kinds of decisions are tough, right? Because you have to convince everybody that you don't need something or you want to invest in something else. And if you're not willing to give up on what you have today, I think moving forward in the next direction is difficult, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's always super hard, right? I think as soon as you want a cultural shift, it just takes a lot of effort from the entire leadership team and company to get there. But I also feel like this is something probably where you can get to step by step, right? Like building a flywheel like this. You probably don't want to do that in like one big like-- I don't know how to call it. Like tomorrow. Very aggressive. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Like one big heavy lift motion. I do want to-- you actually want to maybe take it step-by-step and iterate and also because there's so many tools and models out there that you can actually-- that are probably worth trying out. And then iterating on and then quickly discarding and then moving to the next step. But that's actually sort of like where I wanted to get that. Just-- if you have-- since you've been going through this, and you wrote a whole book about it, what is like a piece of advice you would give to a sales and element teams that are currently looking to get there, looking to apply AI in everyday life? And yeah, I think that would be very helpful. Yeah. I think the first thing that it says, have a look at your entire sales enablement process and the tools that you're using to enable each of these processes within the sales cycle for your reps. So I would do an audit first of that. And I would see whether these existing tools that you have-- like do they already have AI capabilities? If they have it, that's great. But we can start by just turning some of those things on. That's going to help us do it faster. Maybe not do it in a different way. But I think doing it faster is like one way to start adopting the AI. But in that process of mapping out the systems and your sales process, find the-- and for me, it's pipeline, right? But find the part that is going to make the most difference to your organization and see whether there are components of the AI native flywheel that can be applied. So let's say it's PG. And you're doing pipeline generation. And you want to focus on that part. OK, what are the things we can do differently? So one of the things that we've been talking a lot about is intent-based and signal-based pipeline generation versus just-- here's your ICB and just going after those things. Like, are there things that you can do to actually enable that part of the process? And if you find the most meaningful one, and it has impact on what that looks like, then the others will be a lot easier lifts. But the main thing is just like any kind of change management, you have to stay on it. And you have to be all over it, right? You can't just turn it on and expect it to work. You have to follow up. And is it working for reps? It's not. Let's change it. Let's do a lot of stakeholder buy-in, that kind of thing. Yeah. There's one thing that I always have to think about. When somebody talks about change management and process, that takes a long time, we had a guest on a show who talked about the implementation of a met pick process in the company, took them three years. I agree. I agree. So I just-- It's just as a reminder to our listeners, right? Maybe it was two years, but I remember only. But it was pretty long. It was at least two years. And it's just like-- I would not expect my ship to fully like, name it fly-wheel to the space, heavy AI systems to be something you can do within three months. It's just like, if you have more than 20, 30 people and you are working on that topic, like sales, I mean, then just forget it. It just takes some time. Yeah. And so it's so important to identify the thing that moves the needle and then essentially create quick wins so that the reps buy into it and the managers buy into it. So that they see that what you are jointly working on as a team helps them become more successful. I think this cannot be stressed enough, because it goes back to this self-motivation. If people-- if it's just another thing on their plate, they're just going to ignore it. And they will fight it, right? And if they see it makes them better, it helps them be more successful. So I think you cannot go this-- I think in the end, you cannot go the way alone, right? You have to basically align. You need to see that people say, yeah, no, this is great. I want to become better here. And so this is like taking a maybe like the top of funnel, MQL to SQL conversion. If that's the thing where you feel like there's a lot of potential or the signal-based or intent-based outbound, right? Like whatever it is, right? Like I think they're honing in on that and creating those success case studies almost-- I think that is super important. Almost thinking of it a bit like a product, right? You have a product and people love the product and the outcome and they basically tell their friends. And suddenly it becomes a lot easier. Look, typically we ask, all I guess, what is a book you would recommend? But we talked about your book a lot. So obviously, I would recommend that book. Do you have any other book, Research Report, anything that refels people would appreciate to learn or connect that you would recommend? That's a good question. I don't think I've read any Revops books recently. However, one of the books that I read earlier on this year, which had a big impact on me, was this book called The Courage Should Be Disliked. Have you heard of it? OK, it's cool. The Courage Should Be Disliked-- it's not actually about being disliked. It's more about the ability to stand for the things that you really believe in and accept where you are, where you are right now, because then you can actually make improvements. I really recommend the book. It is actually the sequel to The Courage Should Be Happy or something like that. And it's really reflective, I think, of this current stage where we're in, where it's OK that we're here in the beginning of the journey, as long as we recognize that. And like, OK, here's where we need to be. How do we get there? And let's just make a path towards that. Some of our opinions are not going to be popular along the way. And that's OK. We just want to make sure that we're honest with ourselves on where we are and where we want to get to. And it's also OK if we decide, hey, making this huge AI shifts too much for us and how priorities in the next two of four years are just going to be. Let's adopt AI in a very lightweight way. That's OK also. So I think it's just acknowledging that we all don't have to be the same. And we all can have a different opinion, but that it's most important to be honest with ourselves and our leaders and the organization. Love it. Yeah. Laura, thank you so much. This was great. Really enjoyed it. I learned a lot. Have a great day. Likewise, thank you. Thank you so much. [MUSIC PLAYING] Thank you for listening to the Rethops Lab podcast. If you enjoyed this episode and would like to support us, share it with a Rethops friend or try us a five-star rating right now. And if you have feedback, questions, or guest ideas, just send a message to Janis or me on LinkedIn. Thank you and see you next time. [MUSIC PLAYING]