$100M Engagement Ring Expert: Predictions for 2026 And How I Disrupted A Male-Led Industry

- The co-egg men, are you ready to get hot smirage? - Let's go. - Let's just get into this lab versus natural conversation. So I've actually never disclosed that. So my ring is people have kind of taken sides. Well, why would I ever spend that kind of money for a natural versus, well, my diamond's the real thing. It's a natural diamond and yours is kind of a fake. And my take on it is that one of the things I've really respected about you is how transparent you are. There is no balance. I took a red eye last night. I'm taking a red eye tonight. And then I'm gonna be up at 6 a.m. with my kid. None of that is easy even if the appearances I'm doing this really cool glamorous job selling diamonds. - Someone like Travis and Taylor getting married. What do you think the ripple effects will be? We're gonna start to move away from that. - What style holds the best value? - Oh, that's a good question. So last year you talked about bootstrapping to $100 million. Was not raising money out of choice or out of necessity. - I didn't even know you could. I had no idea about investors. I just didn't want to work for somebody else. I saw this white space and I was like, let me just try this. Then when it got to the size where investors were knocking on our door, we didn't really need the money. - What is the most expensive engagement ring you've ever sold? - We have sold. - What is a lesson that your customer has taught you? The hard way it ring costs years. So. (upbeat music) In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart and rich. So let's get into it. (upbeat music) Nicole Eggman, are you ready to get hot, Smirich? - I am, let's go. - I'm so excited about this because you have been doing this for so long, but I feel like there's so much about your story that we're gonna learn and get into today on a personal and on ring concierge. - Yes. - But when this comes out, it is going to be peak engagement season. Like we are talking girls that are so excited, they just got engaged to like big disappointment that there wasn't a ring under the tree. - Yep. - Why is there such a big season for engagements? - So it starts with Thanksgiving and then it moves to around Christmas, then New Year's, then Valentine's Day. And those are the holidays. And I think the reason is you are going home with to see your whole family and everyone's gonna ask. All right, when you guys getting engaged, you think he's gonna propose. And so I think the pressure of your family asking that question because you're on your like five of dating, builds leading up to those holidays, and then the women start putting it on their partner. Like I am not gonna go through another Christmas without a ring on my finger. And so all of that escalates to this being engagement season. - It is so interesting because I can say I participated in that and I was previously engaged, called it off. And when I think back to like why and how it happened, it really was about the ring and it really was about the milestone. And like everyone else is pressure and being a certain age. Are you seeing that this trend of like bigger, flashier is because of social media and how we've seen people kind of show offerings online or like what has been the impact of social media on the diamond ring industry specifically with engagements? - Huge, huge influence. So when I got engaged and this was like over a decade now, not to age myself, no one was posting their proposals. Like me of all people, I don't have a single picture of my proposal, which is crazy to think about it for like with what I do. - Yeah. - Cut to maybe like seven years ago, it started to become a thing. And now proposals are all about like how grand can you go? Are you in Paris? Are you in front of the Eiffel Tower? And with that comes the iconic ring pick. And so I think there's this pressure or this desire to fit in slash and press people if we're just being honest with the size of your ring. And so they got bigger and bigger. And then lab groans came into the picture, which allowed for people financially to go even bigger. And so now it's like three and a half carats is average, which is crazy because 10 years ago that used to be a really big ring. Huge. And I just feel like the pressure, it's interesting, is when you really dial back, when you're in that seat of like wanting to get married, wanting to get engaged, it's like why are you doing that? Is it for you or is it for someone else? We're gonna get into lab grown in a little bit 'cause that's a whole separate conversation. But I think that there is a really interesting thing that I've noticed about just the wedding industry in general engagement rings and like someone like Travis and Taylor getting married. And this is the year that they are going to actually get married. What do you think the ripple effects will be on engagement rings, on aesthetics, on what people are actually wanting when there has been a very different style and approach to a ring from a very prominent person? I think there's going to be the shift towards uniqueness. And Taylor Swift certainly has a unique ring. The shape of her diamond, we've been selling for years and years in elongated antique cushion, but it's in a really unique vintage setting. So I think there will definitely be a shift to that direction we're already getting requests. And then Selena Gomez's ring actually has had impact as well, the marquee cut, which was really popular, I think in the '90s and then kind of fell out of favor. That's regaining popularity because of her right now. And the oval basically rained for like a decade. It was all about an oval in a yellow solitaire. And look, I still love that ring. It's still our number one requested ring. But we're starting to see this shift for something different. Something chunkier, the shape is interesting, or the setting is unexpected. And I think that's going to continue over the next five years. Engager rings don't move quickly with trends. It's a slower evolution. But I do think we're going to start to move away from that oval in the simple solitaire. And was that the Haley Bieber effect or that was before? Before. People forgot it was the Blake lively effect. It started with Blake. And then I think Haley re-amplified it for the younger generation. Blake was kind of the OG of the oval in the solitaire. Do you consider yourself a designer, an entrepreneur, a trend forecaster, like when you think about who Nicole Wegman is as the founder and CEO of Renca Ciers. What hat feels the most organic to you? Ooh, that is a good question. And the answer has definitely changed. I've been doing this for 12 years now. So I think in the beginning, it was more of a designer, a taste maker, a scrappy entrepreneur, like so scrappy. I started the company with $2,000. So when I say scrappy, like I really mean scrappy. And now today, the company is much, much bigger. We have a lot of employees. And my role really has shifted into CEO. I kind of view myself as like CEO. And this is not my official title, like Chief Brand Officer and Chief Creative Officer. I am still deeply involved in anything a customer would see here, touch, experience, so product, marketing, all of that. But my day is spent in back-to-back meetings. I'm not sitting designing rings anymore. I'm not really working with clients unless they're like VIPs or celebrities. My day is in meetings with our CFO, our president, and our different C-level executives, which is a really interesting shift in how I spend my time. Okay, which we're gonna add in too later. But I feel like every CEO loves money. What is the most expensive engagement ring you've ever sold? We have sold a few seven figure rings, which is wild. That is crazy. Over a million. And what shape were they? One was a marquee, and it was a pink diamond. So really, really, really, really rare. Pink diamonds are extremely rare. Another was an oval, just this massive 16-karat colorless oval, like blindingly gorgeous. And then we've sold a really large antique cushion, think like Taylor Swift, but bigger somehow. So some unique rings, which are really exciting. What style holds the best value? If you're talking within 10 years, anything in style now is probably still safe. But if you're thinking about 30 years from now is this diamond cut gonna hold value? Rounds are always a safe bet. I'm rolled cuts, always a safe bet, and cushion cuts. Okay, and for someone that's listening to this, let's just get into this lab versus natural conversation. So my ring is natural, and then my wedding band is actually a lab ground. And I don't think that you could tell the difference like at all. These started coming onto the scene a few years ago, when I feel like I've exploded in popularity. What is your perspective of lab versus natural? And why is it such a heightened conversation in pop culture around the engagement ring specifically? So we've been selling lab for probably like eight years now. And it was based on request. So my whole concept is always, we will make any ring you want. It could be a diamond, it could be a moonstone, like it could be whatever. Like we are here to make your dream ring. And so I think about eight years ago, there were a few requests for lab ground. I was happy to source them no problem. But it was in 2018, I believe, that GIA, which is kind of the governing body of diamonds, came out and said, these are real diamonds. Before then, they were saying they're not real diamonds. Well, it is, it's a diamond, it's the exact same material. And once they said that, and they kind of had to say that 'cause it is a diamond, right? The demand started to increase to the point where they now make up 60% of engagements sold in the US. So they are out selling natural diamonds. And it's because of the price difference, massive price difference. You're going to pay four to five X for the same diamond in a natural. And back to this kind of pressure to have this huge ring. The timing was kind of perfect for this category to be available. And for people to feel like they have that dream ring and they're not sacrificing. The reason why I think it's a hot topic is because of the price difference. And you cannot tell the difference. They look the same. We have a $10,000 machine to scan our diamonds to see if they're natural or lab because we double check everything. That is what it takes to see the difference. You can't just look, you can't use a microscope. You have to use this really specific machine. And I think people have kind of taken sides where it's like, well, why would I ever spend that kind of money for a natural? That's irresponsible versus, well, my diamonds, the real thing. It's a natural diamond. And yours is kind of a fake. And so there's these extreme opinions on what's acceptable in the world of bridal since it's such an important emotional purchase. And my take on it is that both are right. You know, you can choose what's best for you, and that didn't used to exist. It used to be, if you didn't have a budget that was 20, 30, 40,000 plus, which most people don't, you had a very small diamond. And now you don't have to make that choice. You can still have this huge diamond and go lab-grown. Or you can say, I want to make an investment, something that's going to retain value, something I can pass down. And you can go natural. It's so interesting, because I read a stat that the average engagement rate cost in the US is like $5,000, is that correct? Yeah. And is that incorporating now these lab-growns that's pulling the average down? Or is that for natural? That has always been the average. The average has been $5,000, give or take as long as I've been doing this. Our average has always skewed much higher. You've always catered towards a slightly higher end clientele. And our average natural ring has been, and it is still $30,000. But our average lab-grown ring is now around $10,000. So there's a big discrepancy, and it's really kind of controlled by budget. It's so interesting, because I read this thing where it was like, we don't go around telling babies that were made via IVF, like you're not a real baby. Like we go around telling women that have lab-grown diamonds, that's not a real diamond. Is that because similar to how even the engagement ring industry was developed by DBS? There's been some sort of like marketing ploy by brands, maybe not ring concierge, since you've embraced them since you started. But like, has there been anything that we wouldn't know as a consumer in the industry where there's been propaganda to try to sway people away from lab-grown because they are more affordable? Oh, yeah. And I don't know if it's necessarily been propaganda against lab-grown versus a really heavy push that natural is better, and that definitely comes from debirs, which makes sense. So the world's largest siteholder, like it would be foolish to not try to figure out how to make people feel like natural diamonds are the superior diamond. And they've been pushing this for a long time, but it's not working. You know, it's really not working. As a business, they're not looking great. Like if you look into the state of their business and the health of their business, it's not in a great place. And 60% of engagement rings, despite that effort, are still lab-grown. So you can only do so much, but consumers are savvy. They do their research. They look at both in person to your point. You cannot visually see the difference. So some people just are uncomfortable with the idea of it, like it's such a sentimental item. It still really expensive. I just want to know it's from the earth. And other people are like, I don't care, I just want a big honking ring, and I don't want to spend a ton on it. Why do you think that women are so attached to having an engagement ring in general, but also a big ring? I do think a lot of it is signaling, and it's an indication of success. And I think people are proud to be able to afford a ring like that, whether it's their partner that bought it, they bought it together, or that they bought it. It's a signal of, here's where we're at, financially, and it's the same reason people want a caration all bag, or where the row or et cetera, yes, you like the style, they're beautiful, but is that really the reason you're paying $8,000 for a handbag? No, it is a signal of your success, and it's the same thing with an engagement ring. Have you had any DMs from brides that absolutely hate the ring that they got, but they love their partner? Oh my God, all the time, we reset so many rings that weren't a ring concierge ring, and we get a DM, he proposed, it's not ring concierge, I want to ring concierge ring it in, we'll reset it, and then they can keep their original diamond, but we'll put it in one of our settings. Okay, so if someone's listening to this, that's like, I want a ring from ring concierge, I want to even just like broach the conversation with my partner to be involved in the process. How do they best do that? It's definitely tricky, and it depends if your partner is super sentimental or sensitive. I am not a sensitive person, and neither is my husband, so I would probably just say, like, I love you, you have to start like, you know, maybe it's like a shit sandwich, right? You have to like start with the good, under the good, but like put it in the middle, but I would basically say, I know you spent so much time and money on this ring and the diamond I'm obsessed with, and like even if you're not, you probably just should say you are. Yeah, but I want to put it in a setting that feels more me so I can, when I'm wearing it every day, it just feels like my style. Would you be open to me resetting it? I'm not going to touch the diamond. I obsess with the diamond and kind of see if you can get them to move in the direction you want them to move in. And is that why you even started ring concierge in the first place? Like you were engagement ring shopping and you just couldn't find anything that you liked and you were like, there's a white space here? Yes. So I was in fashion at the time, and so I knew retail, and I was specifically, I was in e-com when it was still kind of starting to explode within the world of fashion, but I knew nothing about jewelry and we were getting engaged. We went to the diamond district in New York City, which is like where you went when you were getting engaged. That's crazy by the way. I know. And I looked around and everybody were like 65 year old men that kind of come up to you and they're like, are you buying? Are you selling? It's like a Hegel. And you don't know if you're getting ripped off. You don't know if the diamond you're buying really is the diamond they say it is. The settings were atrocious. And it was just a bad experience and it was the first time we'd spent that kind of money except for our apartment that we owned. It was the most money we'd ever spent and the experience was so bad. And so I started the company with the idea that either should be a female voice in an industry where women are typically the end user and someone young because most brides are in their late 20s and these are all like 65 year old men. So what do they know about what I want or how I want to shop? And it really just started with engaging rings, which is why it's called ring concierge. Obviously today we do everything, but that's why it is named that. And so did you have any experience buying items that could cost like hundreds of thousands of dollars? Like I'm just trying to think about a person that's listening to this. That's like, I want to be in an industry where like the barrier to entry is not buying low cost items and re-sun them a bit higher. Like you are having to purchase stones. I'm sure at times that are hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like how did you feel about entering an industry that had such a high barrier to entry? Well, it's really interesting. And what most people don't realize about this industry is most diamonds are given to retailers on consignment. Okay. So and that is how I did it then and that's how we majority still do it today. Okay. The reason is because most people cannot make that investment in an inventory without limiting what they can offer their clients. And so it gives you access to this massive breath, this massive inventory. And so I didn't have any inventory overhead when I started. Each ring was one of a kind. I'd source diamonds. I'd have the setting made and it would just go like that. So there was very little upfront investment, which is how I avoided taking on an investment for so many years. And how you started with two thousand dollars. Yes. I feel like people listening to this, they want more service-based entrepreneurs in this space, which I feel like you kind of worth the beginning, right? Like you were doing custom one of a kind. What was the unlock for you that scaled you into a business doing over a hundred million dollars from a service-based business to like almost a luxury fashion house in the jewelry space? It was the website. So I started just doing these one of a kind rings and then customers kept saying, I you know, I love you. I love the design. I love my ring. But I want to buy her an eight hundred dollar birthday gift. Like I'm not creating a custom piece for her birthday because they're expensive. So I launched the website and started carrying jewelry at lower price points. And that was the unlock. That's what exploded. That's what makes up 75% of the business today. Because you can just reach a broader audience and women can sell purchase at that price point. Like if you want a five hundred dollar ring, go at it. You don't need to wait. Yeah. Like this one I bought. Yeah. Exactly. You don't need to wait for your guy to get it for you. Like you had a good week at work. Treat yourself. It really caused the business to scale. So at this time, when you're scaling the e-commerce set of things, like did you immediately start leveraging social media because I feel like your brand has been built on social media. So what was your dynamic like yourself as the founder with your social media cat as it was growing? So I was very early on Instagram before Instagram even had a business capability. It's when we were all using it for like personal use. Fashion started to get on there. Luxury was not on there. So I was like, you know, ground zero for jewelry on Instagram. So the account exploded for free, which kind of happened anymore. And we got to a couple hundred thousand followers, I'm sure without paying a dime, which was a game champion. pain jar when you don't have any money to pay for marketing. And I had to use myself as the model essentially, because I couldn't afford models. And so my face started to be a part of the account and people were like, oh, this is the person behind the brand. And unbeknownst to me, that's really important in this category. Jewelry especially, you want to know who you're buying it from. It's an industry that requires a lot of trust. It's a really expensive category. And so that worked for me. And I started to build that into the strategy. Then during COVID, we were all stuck at home. And I was showing more of my life on Instagram. And we really quickly realized that people wanted more of that. And so now the strategy is to intentionally infuse lifestyle. My children behind the scenes at work that I'm on this podcast, all of these things on our business account, because it helps create a connection. And it just, it doesn't feel like any old business when you operate that way. It's distinct. They know who they're buying from. It's a brand they can emotionally connect with, because we're showing them who we are behind the scenes. - I find it fascinating though, because I think you guys do such a good job of that on the ring concierge page, but then your page and your personal brand. I would say, I was so excited about this interview, because I haven't seen you go on so many different types of podcasts and have a TikTok account and put everything out to the world. It means that there was like layers to your onion that we're gonna figure out today. Do you feel like it was because you really wanted to save all of that for ring concierge and not dilute what you were doing? Or like, was it just not in a priority for female founders to build their personal brand as much as they were building their brand? - I think it's both. So in the beginning of showing more of myself on there, it was working so well. It would always be our highest engaged content. And whether or not you could argue whether or not that's appropriate to be putting on a business account, right? We're a luxury brand and here I am, like showing myself like getting cocktails with my friends, right, you could argue that that's not appropriate, but it worked and it always got the highest engagement. The most DMs, the most shares, people when they bump into me in the street, like, oh, are you that ring concierge girl? I love you and your friends, right? And so it is this emotional connection. As the business gets bigger, for the first time ever this year, we did, it's Nicole Wegman as Instagram account. - Yeah. - Had no personal account up to this year. I literally had nothing I used except for ring concierge. And it's because eventually there needs to start to be some form of a separation. You know, I'm not looking to sell the business any time soon. So it's a little bit less about that, but it's more about how do I scale this business beyond just me and step one of that is to start to see what we can do on social media that isn't solely dependent on me as a personality. And so we're still figuring it out. It's definitely kind of a work in progress, but that is why we launched that this year. - How would you define Nicole Wegman's personal brand? - Oh, God, I don't even know if I have a definition. Like, we're gonna come up with it right now. - Super honest and transparent. I've always been really transparent. That's part of our company value and my personal value. Like, why do anything if you're gonna be so secretive? I have anything I have to share. Like, I'm down to share it. I'm very sarcastic. Sometimes that's hard to come across in writing. Like on an Instagram story and it could be perceived as like, oh, maybe she's like, not nice, but I'm just like deeply sarcastic. And so I definitely want that to come through. And then just have it feel real. Like, I'm a mom of two young kids. It's not easy. Anyone who says being a parent is easy, a working parent, they're lying to you. Like, I promise you they're lying to you, right? Like, I never want to be the person that makes other women feel like, my life is so easy and perfect and theirs is not. And so I always try to be really honest about there is no balance. The struggles of running a business. The struggles of being a mom. Like, I took a red eye last night. And then I'm gonna be like up at 6 a.m. with my kids. Like, none of that is easy. Even if the appearances I'm doing this really cool, glamorous job selling diamonds. How have you found that balance of showing the realness, but also keeping the luxury that ring concierge has earned the right to have? As much as I will communicate that my life is not simple or easy, like visually the content is always very aesthetic. Yeah, I'm obsessed with being on brand in appearance in terms of the content we create. Like, even if there's chaos happening, if it's a really colorful room, I'll never show that on our account. We don't do color on our account. Like, I'll make it black and white, let's say. But it could still be like my child having a tantrum on the floor or something. And I think it's the visuals less so the topics that keep the brand feeling elevated. You could talk about, and I've done this plenty of times, like being stuck on the tarmac for six hours and missing a meeting and like all this chaos. But I take a selfie wearing huge diamonds like so that, you know, there's an element of it that still ties back to ring concierge as I'm like complaining about my flight delay, you know? I feel like you are one of those people. It's like, knows exactly who you are. When there was that trend of all these like Gen Z brands coming in big color, and you were like, like we have a very specific brand. Did you feel any sense of like, but the market is moving this way. And I want to get Gen Z, like I have to show a little bit more of that color and like, buying into trends. Where did you sit in terms of your perspective on that? We're pretty true to who we are. Our brand positioning doesn't really change, but we will test new opportunities. So like Gen Z, it's a very small portion of our business right now because our price point is pretty much price prohibitive. If you're like 22, you're not buying a tennis bracelet. Like no, you're just not. You're buying your jewelry on like Amazon or whatever. And that's fine. We all went through that phase. But we know we need to start the funnel. So we launched Sterling Silver two years ago. And the silver is our aesthetic, like it's modern, it's simple, it's super cool, you could layer it, but it's in a material that would make more sense for that generation. And so that is how we're doing it as opposed to actually changing our branding or some of the things that really make us who we are. So you sell to a very luxury customer. How do you do that? It's not necessarily a very luxury customer. We have luxury customers, don't get me wrong. We have plenty of billionaires and VVIPs and sports players and you name it. But that's not our core customer and that's not who I'm trying to connect with. Our core customer is a millennial woman who is working. And this might be her stretch piece. A tennis bracelet might be something she saves up for for a year or asks for a really big milestone from her partner. We are right on the brink of aspirational and obtainable. And that's kind of where we want to be. Like you can't sell it, we sell and not be aspirational, you have to be. But I also have no intention to be Cartier or Tiffany or Harry Winston. I don't want to be that price point. I want people to be able to afford us and to walk in our store and feel super welcomed and comfortable, even if they're spending $300. If you want to place in 2026, where you don't have to worry about the algorithm or the charts, but you still want a profitable place to make money off of your brain and thoughts, then we need to talk about Beehive. It's a platform I've been using since 2023 that lets you start a newsletter, grow your audience and make money through a native ad network, paid subscriptions and digital products, all with a zero take on earnings. And that's where I went to turn my silly little tech talks into the beginning of my media empire. Beehive is now a sponsor of Hotsmart Rich. What started as a simple way to share my ideas became the place where I am my most vulnerable with my community, all of you, which combined with Beehive's built in growth tools like boosts, recommendations and referrals has helped me grow 100% year over year, all while staying insanely engaged and connected to my angels. It's free to start, has preset templates and an AI website builder to get your newsletter and website up and running so fast. If you want to give it a try, head to beehive.com/hsr for 30% off your first three months. But make sure you enter the code Hsr30 at checkout. That's beehive.com/hsr with code Hsr30. What has your relationship been like when the influencer culture came out? Influencers has been great for us. Here's the thing, who does not want a free piece of jewelry? Everyone will wear diamonds, right? And so we've been able to get away with a really strong gifting program and not have to pay that much in cash essentially to get people to post about us 'cause they're just so excited about the product. So we can gift people that otherwise we couldn't afford to pay a tennis bracelet that maybe costs us $2,000 and they're like, fantastic. I've been wanting a tennis bracelet where they might normally charge $15,000 for a real. We love our influencers. They have served us really well. They got the brand out there in a huge way and we like to work with people that organically RC and already shop with us and people that we're reaching a totally new audience. So it's been a really good testing tool as well for new audiences. - How do you have your finger on the pulse though of like who's actually gonna convert and who is more for awareness? 'Cause I think acquired style as someone who you guys designed the ring for and I feel like it probably brought in a totally different segment of customers for you. How do you know when to work with the right person a level like that. We look at their engagement rates and we have a formula we use because we've been doing gifting for so many years where we have a spreadsheet and we, how many followers, what's their engagement rate on Reels or whatever we have, there's a whole formula my team uses and what would be the investment and what ROI would we get in terms of followers and expected follower growth and that's how we decide how much to give people. It's pretty formulaic and there's some stuff that's just like, oh, she's super cool, let's try it. She reached out. But a lot of it is formulaic. Well, I was so excited when I was invited to your L.A. store opening and honestly I got to say it was one of the best to your points for openings I've been to because I remember you had this gifting tree and I was like, wait, I get to like play a game and like get something from this that could be a diamond and it was just like a different and then the other thing that you did that I actually referenced right now because we're figuring out our new photo shoot and there's a picture of me wearing like a $1.5 million diamond necklace at your event and it was just like surprise and delight to a level that not that many brands can do and I think you guys put yourself in such a position to be able to like have fun with a very lux aspirational category. I think one of the things I've really respected about you is how transparent you are. Like you came online last year and said like, I'm doing $100 million in sales which a lot of people won't disclose and I was so excited to have you on for this reason. What was it about your childhood and how you grew up that has empowered you to do the brave thing to disclose financials like that to like keep people learning and keep democratizing the access that you do have. So that's really interesting that you asked that question because I don't think I would have known the real answer even a week ago but this is like a very long winded way of explaining I think why I feel so confident in some of the things I do. So we're applying to schools right now in New York City for my five year old daughter and we're looking at we're looking at co-eds like we're only what we only want co-ed. I went to co-ed public school like it's weird to do single sex schools and we towards some of these all girls schools and they basically explain that when girls are only surrounded by other girls, they it results in a way more confident adult and you have all of these leadership skills because everyone around you that are leaders, the best people at math, the best people at science are all girls. So you never feel limited in what your life opportunities are and you're just becoming intrinsically extremely confident and I bring that up because my entire career path before ring concierge was in fashion and surrounded by women. I worked at all female companies essentially like they were men but like let's be honest the fashion industry are all women and my friends and I were talking about this and all my whole friend group that went through this fashion start. We all like my best friends we all graduated from Cornell and half of us went into the fashion industry in New York City and kind of went up through these like programs. We're all like abnormally confident like obnoxiously confident and we think it's because it was this environment of women can do anything, the leadership are women, the planning team running all the Excel spreadsheets are women and it was just what we were used to and I think it resulted in this mindset that we can do anything and I think they're right. One of my friends brought it up literally a brunch this weekend of like I think that's why we're all so confident is we kind of accidentally were exposed to this thought and I think it's infused in how I operate it's not intentional like that's just I operate that way where I'm transparent and I'm confident and I'll share pretty much anything because you know why not when you feel good about what you're doing. So are you gonna send your dollar to an all girl school though like we might we really might it's we think we're going to it's crazy and I never thought I would. So last year you talked about bootstrapping to a hundred million dollars was not raising money out of choice or out of necessity. I didn't even know like you could raise money when I started it. I had no idea about investors I just didn't want to work for somebody else. I didn't want to work in fashion anymore. I saw this white space and I was like let me just try this. I made I think at the time my salary was like $40,000 and I just said to myself if I can just replace my salary and walk away after taxes with the same amount like why wouldn't I try this. That was it. That was my aspiration like very low goal just want to work for myself don't need to get rich doing it. And then because of that the business had to be profitable and it was a slow go in the beginning like it was more than doubling your year but like starting at a really small size and because I didn't have a mentality of let's scale to exit or you know kind of how people think about things today it had to be profitable. It had to be healthy. I had to understand the financials. I had to be really thoughtful in decisions. I made and had to be really prudent about how I spent money and then when it got to the size where investors were knocking on our door we didn't really need the money because it was profitable and we hit a really huge size without ever taking on investment. So one kind of led to the other. You said something like you weren't doing this to get rich. What motivated you to sacrifice and to in your words like kill yourself to build a business is big. Well, first of all I'm like a type a psychopath so I'm not like that is also true. You know like two things can be true at the same time. And when it started to work it was almost like I was calm as competitive with myself. I was like oh great let's go. And it's kind of like when you're on a rocket ship like you don't ask questions you just keep going and because the business was working I just wanted to see like what can we double next year. Can we double next year and we were. And then I like just kept setting these ridiculous goals that we were able to hit. And because of all of that there was nothing else I wanted to do. I would work like one million hours a week. I put off having children. I did all of these things because I was tunnel vision and growing the business. Everyone listening to this that is living in New York City that like has big aspirations but feels like they're in that job that's just like not for them and they're not confident to go out and like chase their dreams. What would you tell that girl listening to this podcast? I think anybody can do anything they want but it's not without hard work and honestly it's not without luck. I got lucky that social media did what it did for me. You know I couldn't pretend that I knew I'd get to a million followers on Instagram when I was starting the account 12 years ago, not a million years. I was at the forefront of this female founder kind of boom without realizing that was going to happen. I got lucky for sure. But with that luck you have to work really hard and ride the wave. You have to see the opportunities, take the opportunities and if you want to build something like really build something you kind of have to kill yourself to do it if we're being honest. You can't have acid like you can't say, oh, I'll just do nine to five like it's not possible. There are sacrifices when it comes to building something kind of to the size that I ended up building ring concierge for sure. I'll never lie about that. You're married. You have children now. What are those unspoken rules of your marriage that have helped you guys stay through that like sticky, messy middle and beyond the other side where it's like different when you have a team and you're able to like afford resources and be able to like have help in building your vision versus being the like were the only people in here doing this right now. So we are lucky in that we've almost taken turns on kind of who's taking the sacrifice. So when I started this, he had a stable job, which was great. We could take the risk and because what if it didn't work, right? Like a year or two later, I would have to go find a job again. So we had stability and that he had a job at the time and I didn't take a salary for a long time because I kept reinvesting right back into the business so that I could avoid taking on capital. Yeah. Then it flipped. He started his own company. So now we are both entrepreneurs, which is a separate like whole thing. And I think he's had his now for seven years. So it's not recent. And then he started his business and then I started taking a salary and he didn't take a salary so that he could grow his business. And so we've kind of taken turns on who's taking what sacrifice is it who needs to put in more time, who needs to sacrifice financially. And that's worked really well for us so that there isn't this resentment and that one person's always working and the other's not or one person makes money and the other doesn't. And that's worked for us. It could be different for everybody else, but we also are able to talk to each other about challenges in business because we both run companies. And totally different business, he's in like data science. So I can't even pretend to be able to speak intelligently about what he does all day. But the challenges are the same. Employee challenges, financial challenges, getting the right leadership team. We have similar challenges that we can bounce back and forth on each other when we're having issues at work that we can't talk about with people at work. Was it a challenge to disclose that you were doing a hundred million dollars of revenue? We wanted an exclusive article for our tenure anniversary. I love you. You're so honest. This is why I was like she needs to come on the show. Yeah, we wanted it exclusive and that was contingent. We had an article in WWD, it was a fantastic article and they said, "But we need revenue. We can't do a standalone piece of that revenue," and so I said, "All right, let's go." It's not a number to be ashamed of, like it's something we're really proud of hitting. And so that's why it's out there. That's the only reason. I ask that, though, is because I've been on multiple sides, right? The thing I love about my job is I'm an investor, I'm a founder, and I'm a creator. And so I see every single angle. And I think what people listen to this have to realize is you are so brave when you disclose something like that because the pressure builds, people expect more from you, they want to get paid more. They just want more and more and more. But being on the crater side, like also being a very transparent podcast, and like I only want people in this seat that are going to be real and like talk about numbers and talk about things because that's how women grow. And that's how like to your point, we all end up being able to like make a better impact because we're sharing what we're learning. Was there any sort of blowback from even in your personal life or on the business side once you disclose that number? Not blowback. It was kind of the opposite. There were people more so my person, well, kind of crossed the board that never took us that seriously, that when they saw that number come out, you could like see the shift and how they treated me and it almost bothered me more like, oh, before you knew how much revenue I was doing, you didn't really care about me. And now that you saw that number, like, oh, you're asking me, how's the business? What's going on? Like, that's so exciting. And it's like kind of disingenuous. Like, oh, now you're impressed. And so you want to talk to me about it before then you just kind of thought I was this girl with a jewelry business like that happened a lot. And it's a little eye opening to see who cares about that in a way that I don't love. Like I don't care how much money anyone's, like I'm impressed, but like that's not going to change my relationship with you. And I think it changed some of their relationship or how they viewed me. I can relate to that like even with my fundraising announcement that happened recently, we disclosed our numbers like I was happy to do that. And it was just very eye opening to see who came to exactly that point of like, are you raising more money or like, if I was, I would never give you the opportunity when you finally decided to take in money from Webster Capital. What was that decision making process for you like? So we know we want to expand physical retail in stores are expensive. We have five stores right now. Stores are really expensive. It's a totally different beast than Ecom. I can do Ecom day in and day out, but stores, that's a risk. And so we decided, I think it was a year ago at this point, maybe more two years ago, that we wanted to build some cushion to open up stores. And this investor actually though it is Webster Capital, the person that runs it is a very long time client. His wife has been shopping with me forever and ever, they're fantastic. I've sold her so much jewelry. And because of that, he was always a big believer of the brand. And so when we reached out to friends and family, it was a, it was a really small friends and family round. It's, I think it's like not even 6% of the business. So it was a small round. I called him and I'm like, he had just exited, he had just sold his business for a really large amount. And I thought, are you interested in investing in these like, yes, yes, yes, yes, I've always believed in your brand. You know we love you. We know we love your business. We believe in it. Let's, let's do this, which worked out so well. So it wasn't really an institutional round. It was a small round with somebody who I already knew. I know I like him as a person and he already knew he liked working with me and believes in the business. So important when you're raising money and even investing money, like to find people you actually want to work with because you're in it for the long haul. Yeah. What has your relationship been like with other female founders in this space? Once you made this disclosure of how well your business was doing, like, did your relationships change at all? If it shifted, I didn't notice it as much. It was the men more so that shifted how they spoke with me and how they treated me when they found out not necessarily the women, which I think that says something actually. That is crazy. So your personal relationships, like do you still have childhood best friends that didn't know this boss version of Nicole? I haven't been secretive within my close friend group. I mean, I don't run around and say, like, hey, here's our revenue for the year. But I think they've been aware of the success of the business. I don't think it really changed anything for them. I think people have a misperception that I personally have more money than I do because my entire network is still in the business because I haven't sold it or taken on really the investment we took on stayed in the business. It's a fun growth. Yeah. I have never taken money off the table, which is separately probably foolish. So I think people, even people close to me probably think I'm financially better off than I am. But beyond that, the size of the business isn't really a surprise to my close or network. Now that you're in a place where your business is growing, things are good. Like what is something that this year in 2026, you're going to put yourself in a position to like be a learner and again and just like get uncomfortable with a growth that you need to do as a person. I'm trying to figure out what is the right focus for me. I'm founder. I'm CEO. But like I said before, I'm also deeply involved in product creative marketing brand. And I'm spread too thin. I'm not giving the business what it needs to be successful and to get us to that next size by doing so many things. I'm wearing too many hats. Who do I need? What are the experts? What should my focus be that only I can do? That's what I have to figure out this year. Do you have a separate personal board of directors and you do for like the board of directors for your company? Like who do you go to for advice like that? I have neither, by the way. We don't have a board. No, I mean our investor technically has a board seat, but we don't have a board. Which is also something we need to do this year because it just seems like a miss. So many people that would want to be a part of it, get some crazy seats at the table. Yeah. I have a lot of people in my network that I trust and like my brothers are really smart. My parents are really smart. And I usually lean on my closest network for advice, but I do think formalizing that with industry expertise or retail expertise is it's kind of foolish that I haven't done that yet. Okay. What's your favorite book is The Lean Start-Up, is that true? I read that book before I started the business and it served me well. I mean, I probably should have read more, but I read it and I was like, okay, I can do this with $2,000. But the point of that book is that you don't need to spend tons of time on R&D and all of this stuff without just testing the concept and understanding what your customer wants. So it's about testing the concept of the business in a really lean way before you over invest, which worked really well for me. Now what would be the most pivotal book that you've read recently that's helped you scale ring cosplayers? There's two books I really like. One is The Hard Thing About Hard Things and it's essentially guiding business owners or leaders on how to navigate difficult situations, how to have hard conversations because half of what I do all day is kind of putting out fires or problem solving. So how do you do that in a way you're comfortable with it? And then another book I really like is called Get A Grip and it's about figuring out kind of what's your North Star and getting the entire company to march in the same direction and to hold them accountable, which gets harder and harder the bigger you get. I can't relate to that more like, you know, we've done everything in such a scrappy way, like truly lean startup vibes. And even we're doing a photo shoot set on Thursday for this like new season two of what the podcast is going to be just going to come out after this episode drops, I believe. And it was funny because we were talking about the cover image, right? And it's like me BTS at a photo shoot for a beauty campaign wearing like a target shirt and like it's from an iPhone photo. We didn't spend money on a photo shoot. We didn't do what like I feel like everyone does when they want to start a brand, which is like, overspend. Yes. Like they just like I know girls that have spent 30, 45,000 dollars on brand identity and I'm like, I made mine in Canva with a BTS iPhone photo. And now it was very interesting because we now have a huge team with this new deal that we just did. And some of the concepts that came back were very not HSR. They were like power suit vibe and like I just did not relate to it. But I was like, let's put it out to my WhatsApp group and my email marketing group. And we got back like 500 responses. All the feedback was so interesting. It was like, we just want a more elevated version of what Maggie initially said out to do. HSR is the opposite of the girl boss. It's like, it's not in a suit. And if we hadn't like done something scrappy and tested the market, gotten feedback from consumers, we could be on like a totally different planet from what people actually love about HSR, which is like the barefoot conversations, right? Like real stuff. Right. It's so important to talk to your customer. What is a lesson that your customer has taught you the hard way at ring cause ears? We did not do what you did one time. And we usually really lean on our customer and speak to them all the time. That's also the beauty of having a really engaged community. We thought we should launch a diffusion line for bridal because what is that? Basically, a less expensive bridal line. Okay. We knew that there was a lot more demand than we could serve as in terms of our price point because in this isn't the case anymore, but probably about five years ago, our minimum to work with us on an engage ring was $10,000. And like you said earlier, the average ring in the US is five. So we knew we were missing out on a big segment, but we had a really high touch experience. And this is before labs were so prominent. And most of our natural diamond rings, we couldn't service that price point. It just wasn't like economical for us. So we spent a ton of time in a ton of money. We had a branding, branding agency. We spent all this R&D on a diffusion line of basically under $10,000 rings. And we're thinking, this is it. This is how we're going to scale. We're going to be those billion dollar companies. Everybody's going to want these rings and we launched it and it was like crickets. I mean, we sold some, but it was like crickets. And we learned out the very hard ways that people didn't want anything but ring concierge. It wasn't brand. ring concierge. They didn't really want it. They didn't want like ring concierge's like step sister. They wanted the real deal or they just kind of weren't going to come at all. And the biggest miss was that we didn't talk to our consumers or our followers. We didn't ask them, would you be interested in this? Because we thought we knew better because we had so many years of sales data and customer data at that point that we thought we could make that decision for them and we were wrong. It was expensive. It was not, it was an expensive mistake. Can you say how expensive it was? Oh God, probably like half a million dollars. Like not a not okay amount. Yeah. Do those things rocky? Like do you have trouble sleeping at night? No, no. Wow. That was not a fail fast. But we typically are a fail fast mentality. Try something doesn't work. Move on. Learn from the mistake. Don't do it twice. If you do it twice, like, you know, you probably don't have job here anymore. But my team is encouraged to fail fast and to come up with new ideas and try new things as well because that's the only way you can grow. You can't keep doing the same thing. You're going to become stagnant and people get bored. What is a lesson that was taught to you that you were not expecting in a good way? Very early on when I had the business and I was figuring out employees, which is hard. And if you ask anybody in any size business, what's one of the biggest challenges? It's always getting the right team, getting the team right. If you don't have an A team, you can't be an A plus business. Like it's just they go hand in hand. And I was at some talk with Jessica Elba. She was speaking. I don't know her. I can't pretend to know her. But I was in the audience and I was like, all excited. It was when it was pre-honest company having IPO. Okay. But it was big at that point. Okay. And she had apparently had to let go of her entire leadership team. She had hired at launch to replace them with a team that could scale her to where they are today. And she talked about how hard that was and especially for like a woman. It's kind of emotional to do those types of things. But the lesson was the team that got you here might not be the team to get you there. And it always stuck with me because I think it's true. And there's some people that can kind of of all with you. But usually the team you need in the beginning are super scrappy. Sit on the floor of your apartment, help you pack boxes are probably not the same team. It's going to navigate a hundred million dollar company that's trying to scale to two hundred million dollars. It's a different kind of expertise you need. And to have a realistic and critical eye when assessing your talent to make sure you can actually hit your goals. How can someone be like, I want to work at ring concerts. It is my dream brand. Like, I want to be beside Nicole, but I don't want to be the founder. Like, what are you looking for in the interview process with someone like that? I want people that have grit. I don't care if you have 20 years of experience to grow the business that I'm trying to grow. You have to have grit. And that's always been the case of all of our hires. And you have to be able to pivot all the time and no ego. Those are kind of the three things that are non-negotiables across any role, any level in the company. Then from within there, obviously depending on the role we need like a certain expertise or a certain background. But if you don't have grit, if you're not willing to pivot because we pivot like crazy. And you can't be sensitive. If I tell you, oh yeah, that email was approved. But then three days later, I say, never mind. Not approved anymore. We're changing. I don't want to hear it that you're annoyed about that because I am going to make those types of calls. And every decision I make is firm first, which is like the business first. It's not about me. It's not about other personalities. It's firm first. And you have to have that mentality. And then ego, I can't do ego. Like ego across the board just doesn't work at the company. I don't have ego and I expect no one else to have ego because it gets in the way of making the right decision and the best decision and having a collaborative workspace. So now do you ask people if they've been to an all-girl school and then you hire them? I'm going to start. Or like I am going to start because we have so many women, I think 90% of our employee base are women. And it's an interesting question. And then I'm going to start to see if I do see a difference or if it's just like the spiel. But I believe it to be true. I do feel like it's got to be true that when you're surrounded by other girls or women in leadership roles, you would feel the confidence that I can do that too. You can tell a lot about a leader for who they hire. And I remember Tory and Sydney both. We were definitely not the people there that had the most followers, like the most influence at the time. And like they treated everyone like they were a VIP. And I think I've been to a lot of influencer events where it's like there's the people with a million followers and there's like everyone else. And it was so clear that it was not that. And I just have to say like you've hired such incredible people who I've enjoyed staying in touch with. And so to see this come full circle has been such a treat for me. Oh, I'm glad to hear that about them. I do try to hire nice people. Yes. I really do. Yes. Okay. So we have to end with some really fun rapid fire. Okay. Nicole Wegman, what is the last thing you put on your credit card? I had an iced coffee and some like weird breakfast pizza thing in downtown LA before I came here. Okay. What is the last most expensive thing? Fun thing. Oh, I'm trying to shop less this year. That is like a goal of mine. But that does not mean it's been working. I mean, these are new shoes, but they're not that crazy. They're just Johnny Kane. Okay, but still that's good. Good quality. Yeah. Three four hundred dollars. Like nothing. Nothing. Yeah. You can only sell one diamond ring shape for the rest of your life from ring concierge what shape is it? Antique cushion. That was like a very fast one. Why? I personally have one and I was literally with a client this morning. He was looking at them and I just like remembered how much I love them. I want to see your ring after. You can only wear one accessory for the rest of your life. Diamond studs. Really? What size is the best size for my face? Oh, okay. I mean, look, you can't go too small of diamond studs. I would do a pair of four or five carrot total eight. Okay. So that means like two in each year or two and a half in each year. And now with lab grown, like it's good. You have them at a price. That's really reasonable. I think my husband before you came down here was like if there's a insularie gift for Maggie. So maybe you can. I think so. Like if it's a Christmas gift from the husband, like let's go five carrots. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Okay. Thank you, sweetie. You heard how it all happened. What is your favorite female brand that isn't yours? I love sed active. I think they do a really good job of engaging their community. I'm always really impressed. I know Lindsey the founder. She hustles. And I think I just appreciate what she's built that has personality behind it. By the time this comes out, her episode will have aired. Oh, great. You had her on. Yeah. Amazing. And it was one of the most like transparent honest conversations where it was about how she's built a cult like athlete, your brand. But also she took accountability and talked about a lot of the things that have like been one of the hard things about being a founder led brand. And like all the things that she's had to go through. And it was like one of my favorite episodes because like you super transparent. Yeah. She's she's smart. I think I've seen some of the things she's gone through. It's definitely not easy. But she's like resilient. And she has grit. And back to the type of people you want to hire. Resilient people with grit. Yeah. You get you through hard times. Yeah. Is there a dream celebrity that if they like made their engagement ring with ring concierge, you would just like pack it in and call it a day. Oh, pack it in and call it a day? No. Of course not. Okay. I should say like my god. I'm obsessed with Kim Kardashian. Everybody knows this, which is like a like a really fun fact. And she is not currently married right now. So there is opportunity there. I would kill to do her next ring. Okay. So are you on the weekends? Like zoning out and watching Bravo. Like are you a housewives girl? Oh, I'm a housewives girl. But I am partial to Beverly Hills. And that's because I've worked with a good amount of the Beverly Beverly Hills ladies. And like we've been friends with Rachel. So for years, she's like the biggest supporter of the brand. And she's on it this season. So now I have to say Beverly Hills is my number one. But in terms of if I'm having a bad week and I'm stressed, there is one show I'm going to watch that makes me feel so good about my life. And that's Salt Lake City. Like housewives of Salt Lake City. You, you watch that and you're like, I'm good. Like my problem is nothing. Like they're going to jail in that show, you know, there is something about Salt Lake City. It is not where it's like, but like every reality show. Like what is going on over there? It's so good. Would you with your personal brand ever do real housewives? No. I spoke to, I don't know if it was Bravo or the casting agency when they were rebooting New York City. They contacted me. And I think I can't really say I don't want to be a housewife, but I would be a friend of to get like the brand down there. I think it's a big risk. And I think I have too much to lose. Okay, last question, Nicole Wegman. I love saying your full name. By the way, is that your maiden name or your maiden? I didn't take my husband's name. You did it. No, I'd like back to like, I don't need to take a man's name. And what are your kids? They have his name. Okay. Nicole Wegman, if you had to title this season of your life, what would it be called? The season of finding balance. Finally. So now we're going to watch for all of 206 and see if you're able to accomplish it. Nicole Wegman, thank you so much for coming on Hawthorne Rich. I had so much fun with you. Where can people find you? They can find me at at ringconcierge on Instagram or then go to our website ringconcierge.com and plug your new personal brand. See, this is why I'm not good at this. Might as well be like, Hey, it's Nicole Wegman on Instagram. Love it. And how can HSR help you? I love that you are speaking in a way that I think is tangible. And it's not so high level that people can't get real advice. and real help from your podcast. So I love that you're taking that approach. I think if you have a $1 million business or a $100 million business, people can get advice from how you're speaking. - Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. And thank you for coming on. Everyone, go visit RingConcierge and check out a store where you're five stores. New York, New York, we have two in New York, Soho and Upper East. We have Houston, we have Boka, and we have one right now, L.A. In San Frifitti, which is the best. Thank you so much, Nicole. - Thank you. - Bye, guys. (upbeat music)