#1 / Small Talk with Eli from Snøhetta

Welcome to RIPO Collective's Abu Dhabi sessions chats. We have no idea what we're doing. So we just decided to start having fun recording a bit of the best that we have happening in the studio, which is meeting people and making friends. And we discussed a lot about if we could call this a podcast or not, or if this would be something else. We agreed that we would not call it a podcast, so we call it small talk. So this is the first edition of the RIPO Collective Abu Dhabi sessions small talk. And this is recorded in our studio in Abu Dhabi in my office, where we have our guests that I will introduce in some seconds. And we have some members of our team that are here in the room with us. And literally, this is supposed to be chat with friends and very relaxed. There's no script, and I need Johnny to come and put the password in his laptop, because it just went off. The reason why we're doing this is because there's several reasons. One of them is because with the Abu Dhabi sessions and the final draft, in the last years we realized that we could through our connections and our network bring interesting subjects to discussion here in Abu Dhabi. We could maybe be a bridge of interesting stuff that we are involved in to Abu Dhabi. And we realized that maybe doing it just once a year would not be enough. Then we started thinking the idea that we could do it more often in a non-regular way, which basically this will happen when we have guests in the studio. And the idea would be that this is kind of an extension of that project that is the Abu Dhabi sessions and the final draft. Now, this is the first chapter of these talks. It's also the first chapter of season three of the Abu Dhabi sessions. And every year we have a theme. And the theme of this year is craftsmanship. It's crafts. It's having a craft, knowing a craft, being good at a craft. And the importance of mastering a craft. We have the feeling that being a good craftsman is losing the importance that maybe in other times had. And we want through our multiple projects, including Fabrica, bring back the concept of craft. Now, by some special alignment of the stars, our first guest is a friend that probably is one of the few people that came to the two editions of the final draft, is a friend that with many other relationships we have started with work. But then today we are more than colleagues. Welcome, Ali, from Snowet, welcome to our small talk. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's an honor to be the first one out. This is very exciting, and as all of the great things you do at Slash, you are so amazing in connecting people and the best way to connect is to talk together. Correct. And we spend with you, with your team. We spend so many hours talking about so many things. Some professionals, some personal things that we like, we met in different countries. But one thing that is constant is that we talk a lot. Well, usually I talk a lot. And then you also talk. And we have been sharing a lot of things, not only about architecture and about design. But I think something, I think I can say that the two companies aligned very organically. Correct? Yes, definitely. And I think, you know, when we start projects, we try to talk a lot about things. We talk about what is the object of the project. This is also, of course, related to architecture, which is our craftsmanship at the core. And, you know, drawing can be the easy part, but the thinking behind it, it's what's, you know, there you find the deep meaning. And in order to get to that place, you need to talk together. Because just drawing an idea on board and jump on that might be good, but it also might not be so good. So having that conversation before is really important. And true discussions try to create the collective understanding of what you're dealing with and a way to proceed it. As a continuation of the introduction, Ellie is the face of Snowhead in the Middle East, where we are in Abu Dhabi. And we have in common a lot of things, but one of them is that we both, we both slash and Snowhead want to bring things well done to Abu Dhabi in the different areas. And in a way, there's a connection with that and the craft and being good at the craft that we are working on. What is your reaction to the word craft? Is it old fashion? No, I don't think so. I think craft is really important. I think, you know, with all the technology and the technology and tools within our field, it's also important to recognize the craftmanship in the work, in the execution of the work, but also in the process behind the work. So like yet, the founder of Snowhead always says, you know, you start as an architect and you die as an architect. There is like, you know, nothing in between. You know, you can develop, but that's the core of what you are. You know, some in some professions, you start and then you want to excel your career. And that's natural. But in the core business, what we're dealing is the craftsmanship and the interesting in improving yourself in that. And that comes to the thinking, to the development of concept. And of course, then, to make this a built or a new environment for people that can share it and meet in. I've had the privilege of visiting your studio twice and you have been here several times. And one of the things that always attract us to Snowhead even before we met is the feeling that the work that you do is crafted, is detailed, is thoughtful, and there is not a magical formula, and that all the projects have something in common, there's always this perception from our side that everyone is designed in a unique way, starting from maybe some common elements, but there's this idea that each one will be crafted in its own way. Is that what it happens? Yes, I think so, we have tried to maybe put a word on this and that's contextual concepts. So we always relate to the context where we are. So you cannot use the same approach, the same design in two totally different conditions. So every place has a condition, if it's wind, if it's temperature, if it's people, if it's culture, so you need to relate to that and then try to define a response that makes sense in that situation. And I think that's craftsmanship to it as well. So we tried over the years to develop this understanding between the people in the office, that we should approach each project from an individual perspective and not just make a copy or a default of what we've done before, and I think that is something you carry with you moving forward, and then when it also comes into the joy of dealing with materials, what is the right response here, and of course the detailing of the project itself. But at the same time, I don't think we are occupied with the beauty of the object just for the object in itself, it's the purpose of the object, what it's supposed to be used for, if it's a building that people should meet in, or if it's a you know fork or knife that somebody should have in their hands or if it's it's a way to find you know signage to a building. It's always in relationship to the personal that is using it. Two weeks ago as you know we I had the privilege of attending a talk by Chatelle in Italy and it was so funny because in the end when we finished the talk and we were just you know decompressing it it only it's so funny that I just finished the talk as an architect and I didn't talk about architecture and when he was talking about all the projects and he mentioned several projects it was never about the architecture it was about what was being delivered through that project and and sometimes it was a restaurant sometimes it was an office building I remember how proud it was that you got the award of the Eglist building in Norway and how that reflects what you're saying which is the purpose of that building was not to win a beauty context. It was the second Eglist building. Maybe next time you win the Eglist. But that building is a good example. Of the purpose was was not beauty independently. I think the building is beautiful but but there was there was there was a different purpose that was delivered. Can you tell us a little bit about that specific project? Yeah so that project is it's a mixed-use project of offices and residential it's in a central part of Oslo and it's the first fully naturally ventilated building of that type in Norway. So we've been a part of a research project for many years with you know stakeholders in our industry so there's a developer there's a contractor there is a real estate yeah that has developer that is leasing these two different businesses and then also as a designer and then it's also been a research institute connected to this. So this is an example of a project that's been you know has a long process it's a long history behind it but what we're trying to do is to find potential answers to how can we make a built environment that reduces the CO emissions and also reduces the need for technical spaces within a building because we use so much of the space inside the buildings we built today for ventilation for ducts for technical spaces that if we could find a different way of using that it could be you know high-sea links better air better temperature inside different thermal comfort so now we are kind of using one solution with the AC systems that is saying that everything should be you know 21 degrees or 18 degrees here in Abu Dhabi so and that is not comfort right so we're trying to find much more nuanced nuances into this and this is one answer and one potential way of doing it. It was I visited the building with you and and it's quite impressive I think it's one of those projects that craftsmanship becomes tangible because literally every wall that you look or every window that you look or every hallway you feel that there was thought there was there was a detail usually when we use the word craftsmanship we tend to think about arts and crafts and to think about the carpenter or the jewelry designer but in a way that building is almost like architectural jewelry in the sense that even the walls are not parallel the way that the balconies are placed in the building it feels like a lot of craftsmanship in that one. Yes and also you know the building industry is quite conservative and quite traditional so you know a lot of industry technologies and so I have had a lot of innovation still the building industry is you know a little bit behind so it was a very brave client of us taking this forward but we have yes so the way the the building is shaped is that it has these tilting walls that the purpose of that is to increase the stream of flow of air around the building because it has these these ventilation walls that has to open to circulate natural air throughout the building and that's why it's kind of designed this in this way so it's like you know form follows environment in that sense is one of the words we have been using in this so it's not just it's not designed to specifically just looked at it had definitely has its purpose in the way that the the walls are tilting to increase and also you know the floor height the thermal mass in the slab is also a part of that energy system solution. I think usually articles on the internet but also in magazine I think usually they are unfair to architecture because it's very hard to but in this specific project I think it they are even more unfair because I knew the projects from articles that I read and it doesn't matter what we're saying in this talk we will never I don't think we will never be able to explain how incredible is the work done there because only when you visit you understand all those variables that you talked about about the importance of of that of craftsmanship there one one of the questions that I would like to ask you is when you think about you and your colleagues and your studio does ever cross your mind that they are craftsman that they are people that are on this journey to deliver something that is unique and and improved every single time that they work in it. Yes and I think maybe there is a transition from you know when you are a student you go to school and you learn and you do projects you work a lot on your own and when you you know you step into the world or you start working in a larger environment you understand that it's so complex that you really have to take a part in a team to to to make these things happen you you have a role to and collaborate with others all you know all the different functions within an office or a design team has to somewhat be a part of the same orchestra so there's like this craftsmanship of that understanding your role but also understanding your contribution and you know that this is not something that anybody could have done on their own. When I when I think about craftsman and if I I need to put a face in my head about craftsman I think about people that I know that maybe work with their hands and and they deliver incredible incredible work but I would say that the thing that they all have in common when I think about them is this restlessness this this idea that I've never good enough that that there's this pursuit of knowing more about my craft knowing the tools knowing the the systems knowing the the process to deliver to deliver that how does that apply to the work that you do to the architect or is there a moment where you say it's enough I know enough or or you never reach that moment. No I don't think you reach that moment if you do maybe you should stop being architect I think it's like you know that I was I was just saying what we tried to do is also to develop an environment where this has become like a tacit knowledge so it's like a knowledge that you maybe have a bit in your hand and also in your head and then share that with others because you know we we tried to over the years have this how should I say focus both on innovation when it comes to technology and testing thing but also on the analog side of actually doing things with your hand it's very different to look at an object that is you can hold you can feel you can touch that has a texture that has a color than seeing it on the screen so this kind of combination of the two I think is essential in that process and then as an architect and when you work you you know it's so much knowledge and especially when you're traveling to you know new areas and like coming here to Abu Dhabi all the things we have learned and and we try to you know come with a position of humbleness in that that we're not here to tell you but we're here to get knowledge that will help us to potentially give better answer to the problems or they should attend. 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