09 – Best Notes

[music] Welcome to Imbrave beat by beat. I'm Curtis Rutherford. I interviewed 24 different improvisers and then edited together chunks of those interviews to investigate different aspects of Imbrave one piece at a time. This is episode 9. Best notes. [music] For this episode, I asked people about the best note they ever got. Many of these notes didn't make sense to the person receiving it until much later, but for some reason it stuck in his or her head and changed the way they are, they saw Imbrave or saw themselves. First up is Jessica Morgan. What's one of the best notes you've ever gotten? Oh, yes. The note that was another thing in my big book of like improv life that was a chapter change was Abra gave it. Abrave was maybe the only teacher I've had at UCB who has given me a direct note. I am all about them direct notes. Give me, give me, give me. She told me she suggested that in scenes you in an attempt to be very supportive. You say I know a lot, but what you're doing is tossing the unusual thing under the table. If someone's like, "Oh no, my fingers are bananas." You think you're being supportive by being like, "Oh no, but what you're really doing is just making life a lot harder." So that's the best note I've given and I probably give that note the most because it's just stuck out to me so hard. It was so hard for me for so long to find an unusual thing. I'm being supportive, it's me again being like be supportive, be supportive, be supportive and it ends up being a detriment because I'm trying so hard. And then you're being supportive as a character which isn't always needed. We needed this an improvise. Exactly. That made me understand the difference between how to say yes as an improvise or how to say yes as a character, like what those mean. That note really illuminated that there's something happening above the table and something like then the duck is treading water in a different way under the water, table water. Table water? Yeah, we know what ducks do. We know what ducks do on tables. That was Jessica Morgan. Jessica mentioned that this is the note she pair its most when she coaches. We hold on to the notes that affect us most and we try to pass on those notes the most. Those notes don't always mean the same thing to other people that they meant to us, but maybe they will later. This first half, Jessica's notes included, are notes that were specific to the improviser that shaped how each person played. Up to next is Lydia Hensler. We had earlier talked about nerves and how she helped get over them by self-consciously choosing to improvise as the confident version of Lydia. What are some of the best notes you remember receiving? All I'm thinking of is when Delaney said he was disappointed in me. The whole thing was popping into my head. I feel like Delaney is a. I feel like Delaney is like kind of a benchmark teacher in that way of that. It was a fire that a lot of people passed through and some people didn't. He said he was surprised at me by me and I did. I didn't do well in this scene and he was just like, "Why did you do that?" That's such a dead way of doing it. I thought you were better than me. I kind of think of it. It was kind of a nice way to deliver whatever nobody was giving me. That was just nerves. I feel like a lot of my notes were your nervous. I remember Anthony King did this really lovely thing where he wrote everybody personal notes on "Aero Night" and sent them to them. This was really funny because for whatever reason I wasn't looped in on the email that went out to all the performers that he was doing it. I thought I specifically just got a very long email about my scene. I remember emailing Molly being like, "Molly, I got this." She's like, "Everybody got that email." She's like, "Everybody got an email." She's like, "Oh my God." She's like, "Forded me the email." I went to everybody. I was like, "Oh God." I thought I was like in jeopardy of being kicked off. It was just like things to work on. But my nerves were highlighted as the thing to work on. Because I had everything I needed. I knew game has always come really -- I'm very lucky the game has always come easily for me. I think I have just a mathematical head, so it just comes. But the nerves would get in my way. And that's something I say all the time -- that's why I would pretend to be a confident version of myself -- is just like, "You can have a perfect game move, but if you're nervous delivering it, the audience is too afraid and worried about you to laugh." But you could walk out on stage and say gibberish, but if you're confident about it, and I was like, "Ha-ha-ha!" Before they realized, like, "Wait, they just said gibberish." Like, Jim St. Hensley was saying gibberish for 45 minutes. And I was like, "Oh, 45 minutes." And I was like, "Taped it and watch it on rainy days." Yeah, most of my notes were just about nerves, kind of getting in the way of what I was doing. And also breaking out. I was always so afraid to be the unusual one. It was really like exploring character and being the unusual -- I was afraid because I didn't know how to do play weird -- because I do have that mathematical brain, so it felt very scary to be like, "I don't know what this weirdo does next, you know?" But then you realized it's the same as anything. You're just reacting truthfully as that weirdo. But yeah, I can't think of other specific ones. But it was mostly hitting that, and you addressed it just like bit by bit of saying, "Oh, I will just be more confident. I will be this confident version of myself." Yeah, and then doing reps, like reps were really helpful. And you know what was interesting? My very first indie team was a team called Big Tobacco, and there were 11 of us to start. It was awesome, by the way, like a much smaller community. Yeah. Back then, so it was just like half of a class or most of our class. They're like four indie teams at the time. Yeah, it was so small. And then one by one, like people started getting on herald teams and stuff from this team. And then there was just four of us. So we started as 11 and then there were four of us. But weirdly, like beat the four-person team, I think that's where I got good. Like that's where I was good by accident. Oh, I happened to say a funny thing. I was so nervous. I was like, "Oh, I'm initiating these things. I'm really helping architect this show." Yeah. And I think that was just because there were less of us. So I just had to carry more weight in the show. And we also did tons of shows. So I just felt like that confidence was really there. And then I got on herald night and then not nervous again. Because it's a bigger stage. But I had the skill set that had been improved. So I might be nervous, but I kind of knew what I was doing. And that's all of life, right? Every time it expands, there's like fear. And then you get better. And then life gets bigger. And then there's more fear. And hopefully, it's always that way that the bubble keeps growing. That was Lydia Hensler. Up next is Jesse Lee. What's one of the best notes you've ever received? It's like, I remember right before I'd taken that get through class, I was in a Shannon O'Neal 501. And it was like her team building one. It was like 12 weeks. She splits you up into two teams. And you stick with that team for 12 weeks. And then I got to work on heraldistic group with that team. After that class, I sent her this like rambling, raving email, being like, Shannon, I really want to know like how to improve. And like, here's what I think my flaws are. And it was like a 10 point list of what I need to work on. And she basically just responded. The one thing you need to do is chill the fuck out. And I was like, at this time, I was like, I don't get it. Like this doesn't address any of those things that you asked me to do. Or that I needed help on. So then, and then I said. Where she was addressing this statement behind the ranting email, which is, this is a ranting email. Yeah, this is an insane person's rambling. Yeah, so naturally, I think like that was something that I think was really important for me to tackle. It's like getting over this fear of looking stupid and making a mistake on stage. Yeah. Or like not getting a game move. Or I don't know, whatever, whatever dumb shit I was afraid of doing on stage. Because I think what's the worst that's going to happen. Yeah. Sometimes I think Lloyd now is basically set up for that. Yeah. Like it is, like it's a, it's not a great theater. It's a tough audience because it's all students and all that stuff. But it's like, if you can do well there, right, you're going to be more than fine on Chelsea stage. And I remember Getherard once told me, stop trying to be a good improviser. And I think that perfectly encapsulated what my problem was when I was struggling with was like, I was trying to do what I thought was good instead of trying to serve my, my own sensibility and like, do what I thought was funny in the scene. I was trying to fit this mold that I thought would get basically get me on heroin. And it was just, it's just not what anyone wants to see. Yeah, no one walks away like that was a competent impression. Right. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I think those two notes stick out to me. I think that like the stop trying to be good also, I think appeals to a certain, not exclusively at all. This is definitely generalization. But I think there are like the style of improviser who came from more of kind of like a, I'm going to say like a game like literally, I mean like board games, dungeons and dragon style background rules, rules structure. Yeah, because we have that like John Timothy also has that like that kind of like we think of things as these are the rules. And that's what's then presented to us. Right. And we focus too much on that. But really it's like, yeah, we all came here with our own comedic sensibilities. Right. Right. I think, yeah, I definitely totally agree with that. I feel like I had this also like I kind of viewed it as an academic in a way. Right. Like, you know, it's not like you're getting grades, but you're getting laughs, right? You're getting direct feedback. And if you do something and it's like weird and it's not funny, but it like, you know, you focus on the fact that it wasn't funny in no one laughs rather than it could have been funny or great if you like, you know, did XYZ. and just focus on the failure, right? I don't know, like that's, to me, I gravitate towards that mentality, and that's like a pitfall line where I focus too much on failure. I am not committing to an idea or kind of like a goal or whatever. I just have that tendency to worry too much about what could go wrong. But that's probably the worst thing you knew in improv. - But it's how we learn in every other way. Anything else is, oh, you got this question wrong because of X now learn Y, right? - Right, right. Yeah, so I think trying to get away from that, I think was something that I had to do. It took me a long time to kind of figure that out. - That was Jesse Lee. Now here's Jenny St. Angelo. This starts a run of notes from Kevin Hines. He's the academic director here in New York City and he's a teacher a lot of us took. So a lot of us remember big notes from. - Probably the best note is still the hardest note for me to take to actualize, but justifying away the fun. That was Kevin Hines big note to me in my 401 class was you justify away the fun. It's one of those things that I constantly have to struggle with of like, but I can explain this. I can make this make so much sense. It's not funny anymore, but it is logical. So that's like, that is a great note. I think that's like one of the pretty constant ones for me, like, oh yeah, okay. Which makes sense for you as an actor, especially as an actor who inhabits her roles. Like instantly, like you take it in, right? You seem to work like from the inside out. - Yes. - That, oh, I can embody this person. I can make it make sense. Oh, I've done that work. - Right. - Oh wait, am I still doing the fun thing anymore? Is it now just sad that you're doing this thing? - Yeah, it's really, yeah. It used to be things like, oh, I fell in a nuclear power plant, you know, I'm like, oh, can you imagine? I mean, of course, or like, oh, the reason that this is floating is because of this, that of the other. And it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, it doesn't matter. That's not why it's fun, right? I think I have gotten better at it, but it's hard. That's, I think that's hard for me to not want it to be right. - Yeah. - Or if I have a character that has an opinion, like a strong opinion, and someone is pushing back on it, that's still something for me of like, it's not about being right. It's not about being right. It's not about out-logging them in the argument. Right? That's, I mean, that's like a lifelong challenge for me. But, you know, yeah, like how can you get to the behavior of it? How can you get to the behavior and not just, no, no, no, no, let me, I can explain this in the smartest way. It's gonna have, I'm gonna, boy, Nietzsche's coming in. Like, oh, we're gonna get this whole thing going. And like, that's not generally funny. - Yeah. - To be like, well, Nietzsche says, unless it's about something very dumb. But, yeah, so that, yeah, that's a big one. And then, I think this wasn't so much a note, but it was an observation from Brennan when I was on Rousseau, when I was feeling very like, in my head, and like, I don't belong, and everyone's so funny, and I don't know what I'm doing, is he was like, you play high status even when you're low status. And that, you should own and acknowledge that, and use it to your advantage, and also let that be the way that you let things go. - Mm-hmm. - 'Cause, yeah, 'cause it was, and it all, again, falls back into that being right, right? 'Cause high status people are right, and that's very fun to be right. And I would be low status, but I would still be like, speaking truth to power. - Yeah. - You know, and it's like, just be low status, right? But that was like a good observation of like, oh, when I play high status, and I really can own it, and do the strut, and do the thing, and my brain stops thinking, and I just am, and I'm generally much funnier. It's like, okay, how do I do that on the low status, and to the spectrum? How can I stretch myself in that way? And I'm still working on that, and I'm trying to really be low status. - Gilosary once gave me the opposite note. - Really? - Even when I'm high status, I would play low status. - Oh, funny. - And so he made me do a bunch of exercises where it's like, okay, you are the king. You are a teacher. You are in charge of this class. You cannot be low status at all. You must always-- - I know that it was hard. - It was hard, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's so funny, because I feel like I've seen this in real life. Like, I feel like you carry yourself in a very confident way. Like, you're not, I don't think high status means bullying, in any way. But like, I just feel like when I see you, and I talk to you, and we have conversations, I don't feel like a tremor. I'm like, "Who's underneath?" Which I feel is a very low status thing. I'm like, "Eee." - And I don't know if I've like, it's something I've worked past, or maybe because of that, I think low status is so funny, and the comedians that I was drawn to, like, some of them, or very much the kind of, like, more put upon nebyshy, like-- - Yeah. - Okay. - Yeah. - That type of thing. - Yeah, it's so interesting. Do you think that people play characters more in their status, often than not, or do you think like, more high status people tend to play low status better, and low status tend to play high status better, in real life, first on stage? - I don't know. - Me either. - I'm very bad at those. - Yeah, and maybe it's because I'm now thinking of kind of, what does that mean? Like, high status, low status of, so what does that mean with an asine, right? - Yeah. - Of like, are you in control of the setting, I guess? - Ooh, I've always taken it to mean that what you need is less. - Okay. - Like, a high status person needs less from their scene partner, or from the character. They need something from the, whereas a low status person is searching or grasping for something. - Interesting. - Because I think like a bully can actually be low status. - Yeah. - And the person being bullied can be high status. Yeah, I don't know. Hmm, interesting. - Yeah. - Well, we definitely solved that. - We solved it. - That was Jenny St. Angelo. Up next is Lily Do. - Yeah, it's so funny, 'cause all your notes blend in after a while, and you truly don't remember them, and sometimes it's just like, oh, get in there, 'cause I used to hang back a lot, and that didn't affect me that much, because I'd be like, I know. That's the problem. If someone's hanging back, and you're like, get in there, it's like, they know, they have to get in there. And that's just putting more pressure on them. In my 401 class, I was hanging back a lot, and Kevin Hines told me that, like, I needed, he also was like really nice, he was like, your ideas are good, you have to like, be able to make them, and so he encouraged me to get out there, and he said, this note is not to like, anyone else. This is just to you, but you should play games to win. You should, 'cause you're like letting people walk over your moves, and your moves are good, so you should play your games to win, be competitive about getting in there if you have to. And honestly, I was in 401, I don't know if my ideas were that good, but I think just him telling me that, gave me the confidence to get out there and to believe in myself more. And that's why tying it back to like, Moral, I think sometimes it is just a Moral game. Like, maybe I wasn't that good, but him telling me that I was, made me believe I was, made me confident enough to get out there. - Yeah, that was Lily Do, up next is Molly Thomas. - That was another huge moment for me. I was in a Kevin Hines Advanced Study class. There were four women and 12 guys. - What a nightmare. (laughing) Actually, it was, I didn't think anything of it. At first. And then it became very apparent that we have 12 men in this class and they all are attracted to one of the four women and the other three women are all just kinda like, what the fuck is happening here? Anyway, so, but I would be in scene, and Kevin, this happened two different classes, where Kevin would stop and be a group game, and he would say, you guys, did you see that move? - Right. - Molly just made, you didn't reply to it, you didn't, yes, and that's why this game isn't going well. And that was mind-blowing for me. I had never had, nobody had ever pointed that out. And I realized in that moment or in that class that sometimes when I'm on stage and it feels shitty, it's not because I'm screwing up, it's because my teammate isn't recognizing what I'm doing, and that was hugely helpful. - Yeah, it's that, I mean, we talked earlier about that, like making that big move and then being supported, making that big move, it feels like the person making the big move is at risk of being the asshole, but then anybody who doesn't support that person is really the asshole in the situation. It's just harder to see. - Right, right, right, right, it's harder to see 'cause that person has been left out on an island, and they look like they made a crazy choice. But yeah, if you're not supporting, then you are the asshole. That Kevin Heinz note, even though that was a note for the class, but it really was a note for myself too. - Yeah. - Oh wow, sometimes I'm just not, like I need to take up more space, or I'm taking up some space, but if I'm not trusted or if I'm getting steamrolled, that's what that feels like. - Yeah, that was Molly Thomas, and up next is Chris Scott. - The biggest note that did absolutely change how I played improv, and Chantow was coming to improv, and it was a long, long, slow battle, but hit me so hard, and I came from two people within two days, same note, same class, which was Chris Gether at the end of the 301 that became Thank You Robot, that Thank You Robot came out of, telling me, I didn't trust people. Which was like a, for improv, you know, it was like a knife. It was a knife. I didn't trust my fellow teammates. And at first, I didn't believe it. And then Casey Savage said to me, "Might've been the night before, the night after." "Yeah, you can be an asshole on stage." Or a class, like, and I was like, "Ohh." So that was the biggest shift to me of how much I had to stop trying to please the teacher and stop trying to be perfect and pull back. I still do it all the time. I'm actually the person in the class who wants to re-word notes when I see other people don't get it. I'm not going to be. I'm so sorry. That's why I love coaching. Yeah. Because I get to re- I get to do it. And when something doesn't understand it, I get to go like, "Well, let's describe it this way." Yeah. And then somebody on that team tries to re-describe it. - I'm like a shud. - Oh no no no no no. - No no no no. - No no no no. - You're paying me for this. - Yeah. - Oh Betsy Stover a couple of years ago gave me the note. It was doing a scene and I was kind of like a Williamsburgie, dude, waiting for a restaurant. It was a pretty good scene I thought. And she asked the scenes, she goes like, what was that guy like? And I said, well, he was kind of a douchebag or an asshole. She was like, does anybody think of themselves as a douchebag and asshole? Like really think of that? She was like, have empathy for your own characters. That's like, was one that kind of shifted my brain thought of like, you have to find the thing that makes the person you're playing understandable. - Yeah. - Until you have to relate to them on some level. And it could be the same characteristics stuff and I think it twists how, what sort of moves you make and how much the audience will tolerate you. - Yeah. - You can't just play a dick. - Yeah. - And someone who thinks that themselves. There's still something else underneath. Even if they're like an internet troll or something, they have dick behavior. They have a reason behind it. - Exactly. It's that classic like no villain thinks they don't have. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even getting to like argument scenes, I love a good argument scene. When the person who's ridiculous treats the other people realistically how they think what the voice, what they think is wrong with the voice of reason. So like the voice of reason says like, you're filling your room with cupcakes. You don't need to fill your room with cupcakes. There's no shortage of cupcakes. And the person who's filling the room with cupcakes for whatever reason is like, you're trying to steal my cupcakes. - Right. - These cupcakes are for you. When they like realistically like, I as a crazy person am gonna try to look, I'm gonna like view what the voice of reason is saying and really delve into that from my next step point of view. - Right, yeah, exactly. - Exactly. - But it's levels of really embodying your character. Sometimes to get that. - Right, right. - That was Chris Scott up next is James Dwyer. - Oh, geez. - The worst part about having to answer this question is I don't remember them probably. I remember the notes that weren't good notes that stuck with me for too long. - What were some of those? - One time someone gave me the note before a Harold audition, this person I will not name, that it's funny when I cry and I should cry more and I should do that in my audition. - Ooh, I think I remember only the worst stuff. - Yeah. - I do remember getting, no, they're all notes that hurt me. I remember getting a note once where my teacher was like, you only play angry and sad in all of your scenes. You should maybe be happy more. And I was like, I don't know, this is about me. - Right. - And that really affected me. I remember at the time and it was also a teacher who was like a little checked out. - Oh yeah. - So until they didn't have that note come out of nowhere I was just like, oh wow, you cut me. - Right. - But yes, I can't remember notes that really like, I know, you know, people talk about having those like, aha moments and improv and I think maybe once, I remember having the moment, I don't remember what the note was. - Right. - I maybe I've just a really bad memory. I'm so in the moment that like, how could I possibly remember it? - It's just impossible. - You know? That was James Dwyer and now here's Nicole Dresspell. What are some of the best notes you remember getting? - I think this might be controversial. I think the best notes that you get you're not ready for and you don't realize what they meant until later. - Yeah. - 'Cause it's a person who's diagnosing a thing that you are in the thick of and maybe it's just my own shortcomings but I'm not, I was really young when I started doing improv. That's not true. I was 22, it's not that young, but I was new to being a person when I started doing improv. And again, I was chasing approval and not necessarily chasing skill. But I think sometimes I'd get a note and then like six months back, I'd be like, I know what that note meant. Or much later I'd be like, oh, I know what they were trying to tell me with that. - This is a weird analogy but it's a little bit like, being told you're depressed. - Sure. - And you're like, no, I just, I'm not, I'm just like, I just cry a lot and I'm just been like listening to said, oh no, and then like later on you realize like, okay, this is what that was. - Yeah, it's somebody telling you, this is the forest that you're in when you're just focused on the tree that you're in front of or whatever. So in naming the forest when you're in a tree, - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I remember here's a good note and I didn't take it right away and I didn't understand it until later but Brandon Scott Joe at some point was like, and it was very light and it was just in passing and he acted like it was no big deal. But he was like, I'm not calling this scene, make a choice, make a fun big choice. You can't play concerned, don't worry about this note. And I was like, oh, bastard, all I'm doing is playing characters who are concerned about things and it's blocking fun choices. - Right. - The concern is so fucking useless. It's so from a place of like, you as a person being concerned, it's from you as a person being concerned that you're gonna be vulnerable, you're gonna be exposed, so you play your character's concern and there are ways that you could play it to an unusual degree. But if you're not, you're just blocking fun. And it was so on the money and I wonder if it was just like, really was as breezy as he acted like it was or if he'd been like, locked and loaded since early 2009 and it was just finally time when he could say it. But that was like very, very helpful, very helpful and it's also turned me on to something that I can now recognize in other players when they're blocking themselves. Sean Distan and I talked sometimes about her, like you coach to the notes that you got. I don't know how true that is of me anymore 'cause now I think I'm kind of a pretty selfish player. - Yeah. - Well, I guess I am coaching people away from selfishness but I wasn't getting that note early. I've just over corrected Anthony King in a 401 class and I almost said Anthony King a few times during this line of questioning but he just, he explained game in metaphors and that is so how my brain works and I found it so helpful that even if it's a little bit abstract, it just really helps, it contextualizes things. It's not that it's necessarily like immediately practical advice but it just like shines a light and directs your brain in a way that can understand what you're doing. I definitely, I had great teachers, I did not understand game until 401 and I remember the moment I understood game, it was initiating somebody else's second beat and then I was like I understand what the unusual thing is. It's the fun thing that they're gonna keep doing but in a new context, really very much. Anyway, so Anthony had great notes, a lot of the metaphors but I also remember him once explaining baby T-Rex to us and it is such a nuanced specific note that I almost never gave unless an opportunity presents itself to give it. - What do you mean by baby T-Rex? - So allegedly, many, many years ago, there was a Harold Knightware, either Brian Stack or Brian Husky, a Brian was playing a character in first beats whose baby T-Rex and the scene with baby T-Rex goes on a journey. Baby T-Rex had the little T-Rex arms and a little backpack and just like the way he was being played and like the combination of improviser and character, like the audience was here for it, they loved it. And in the second beat, they went analogous and it was a perfect analogous game move but there was no more this improviser doing this thing that everybody had loved. And that is a thing that some scenes have, most scenes don't, not a lot of them do but sometimes there's a thing in your scene that has nothing to do with the game. Nothing to do with like what will or will not make it a good first or second beat but like if you don't carry it with you, the audience is going to feel like they're at a loss. And you could be playing game perfectly but like an opportunity has been missed. An opportunity for delight has been missed. And every once in a while, students will have a first beat that murders and then a second beat where it's like it's perfect, it's on board, it's analogous but like it's not murdering the same way and I have to stop and be like cool. Didn't know there was gonna be an opportunity to get this but like you forgot the baby T-Rex. And I just need like that such a specific thing and I'm sure I've bastardized and gotten wrong and passed down wrong at this point but like speaks enough to a very specific thing in a coherent way that I think like now you understand what I'm talking about. You can think of other scenes where that's been the case even the most scenes don't have them and now we have a shorthand for understanding this thing. And I find very helpful. And today in class there was just like a hysterical first beat that was set, it was a really funny straightforward game but it was like set on set between an actress and a director and the way that these two improvisers were and fucking nailing the specifics of like a very specific type of actress speaking to a very specific type of director and the way that they, just the way that they were living the base reality was murdering in between the game moves and it was just so natural and then they went analogous in second beats 'cause they're pushing themselves to go analogous and I had to stop and be like okay sorry, I know I say analogous is good but you're gonna have to go back if you wanna replicate that feeling. Yeah. - I love seeing time dashes that are dashes sometimes for five seconds. - Oh yeah. - Right where it's just like we loved this. I remember Matt Mayer initiating a scene on some-- kid of just like the first one was an interrogation see or like a lawyer in a talking to his client in a jail and then the second beat was just well I was talking to the warden we've got a little bit more time to talk and that was it and they just kept fucking going and they just did it more invested also that's like that's Twilight Matt mayor that's like Matt mayor knew the end of his hero night career who was just like no I understand all the rules yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna use them as they're intended to be used which is to do more of the thing that was fun that's really lovely oh that's so fun little hands on his hips when he does it yeah God bless that was Nicole dress bell there's another very specific Anthony King note about Harold's that stuck with me for some reason which is don't reverse the game for second beats the first beat was a classic X as Y scene what if teachers acted like cops or something like that for the second beat of that scene I initiated with cops that act like teachers Anthony's note was if you reverse the game for that second beat you're not really playing the game for the first beat and also you have nothing left for the third beat you can't reverse the game again there's nothing left the baby T. Rex note that Nicole brought up is more of an understanding improv note than it is about any one specific improviser and that's the second half of this episode notes about improv in general here's Morgan Phillips what is one of the best notes you ever got Eugene Cordero coaching a practice group once and I think it was I think he coached this practice group literally once the way he put something once was that I was running past the game which in the moment just just made so much sense sometimes it's not even the note it's the wave and note is phrased sometimes you can hear the same note over and over again and doesn't click until somebody says it a certain way and I think it was that idea of getting so excited with fun stuff going on the scene you don't take that moment to have it register oh this is the game this is the funny thing this is the game of the scene that's one of the reasons why I purposely tried to have as many different teachers and coaches as possible I'd keep a running list I still have a running list on my improv wiki right page of all the coaches and teachers of that although I haven't updated it for a year or so hearing it differently from somebody else can be the perfect the perfect thing there so that that was that was important and just getting those other eyes like I love also like that same thing of like yeah getting as many coaches and teachers and that kind of thing because you get that other view of like I know Shannon is going to see different things reacting to me then Kevin well or whoever Michael Delaney I've he was the only I think he's the only teacher I took three classes from I've taken workshops of them as well every single time I do something with him at least once I can count on he will say something that just is sort of mind-blowing even if it's like just a regular good rehearsal for the rest of the rehearsal there'll be one moment where it's just like oh okay now I get that right anything in particular you remember him saying I have I've never taken him I've always like meant to but it was kind of like timing never worked out honestly there's not a single specific thing I remember that he said it's just to sort of you'll know when you hear it right and it's often maybe it's so specific to the situation but it's just sort of you know somebody with that level of experience is sort of bringing all that to bear on a particular moment of improv there's just that's what's that's so fun about improv it's just so many variables and it's never gets boring especially if you push past those generic scenes yeah and get into really specific things based on the the personality of the people playing the life experience of the people playing it's always it's always new yeah that was Morgan Phillips the idea of taking as many teachers and coaches as possible also came up in episode two playing the game where Achilles mentioned getting different perspectives again that's also the goal of this podcast I wish I could have interviewed about 50 more people for it but whatever speaking of Achilles Stamadalaki here is what are some of the best notes you remember receiving a lot of them are are like almost like standard wrote in pro notes but I remember hearing them and they're kind of like helped unlock certain things for me so like in in 201 I remember Seth Morris was my 201 teacher and he was like gay is not a game and and I was like that makes sense like what a game yeah like gay people are not unusual like it was like like the the note helped me in my own head right locks or things it's like all right like a normal thing shouldn't be what's funny about yeah you know yeah yeah it seems very obvious in retrospect but we all had to hear that a first time and have that realization yeah so that was one thing in 201 I took Peter Gwen for 3-1 and like it was like Peter Gwen and Michael Delaney who I had as my first like advanced study or 501 back then teachers like everything they said was like a perfect note it was like it was just a wave or a flood of like these perfect nuggets that you could just take away like one thing that I remember Delaney saying was like you need to act your little hearts out on stage and I think that's like such a Delaney yeah I remember there was a note that Will Heinz said that was like and this is goes goes back to kind of being good seam partners is like B. Chivalrous to each other on stage not necessarily being like although this does affect this but like if you're a male improviser with the female improviser not necessarily that specifically but when you're on stage with somebody it needs to feel like you are here for them right so like Anthony King note that I love was like you need to improvise with the other person as if they're like Mother Teresa or something like that you don't want to make Mother Teresa look like an asshole so it needs to feel there needs to be yeah like this the civil risk this this like not quite reverence but yes this level of this person's good and I'm gonna treat them as if they're really good on right on stage rather than every person for themselves but yet kind of those like little little nuggets that stick out to me and I still kind of use in when I teach once in a while I mention when the first unusual thing comes up and it never gets spoken to Anthony King had a good note where he was like when something weird happens in a scene there's a huge question mark that just comes up above the scene and then when that comes up when that question mark comes up above the scene the entire audience is just looking at that that question right and they're not they're not paying attention to your scene until you guys answer what that question is and then once that question gets answered the the audience yeah the audience is relieved but I think that was helpful for me because it was so visual yeah that note you know and I like little things like that I'm trying to think of things that I notes that I give that are visual but I like that in particular that because it feels like a nice easy way to kind of realize what the like justifying is helpful for it's like oh it's there's a question and needs to be answered and there's a reason we need to answer that question it's the audience isn't paying attention to your scene until we answer that question that was a killie stahman locky now here's Liz note what's one of the best notes you ever got I'm gonna give the I've told this story a lot but Delaney gave me a note once that like was really really rough but it very much shaped my improv and I'm sure I've told you this before but it was my first advanced study class was a Delaney class and I was really nervous and I stepped out and I had a good idea for a premise and it was in a Harold and so I I said my premise in the first line and then from there the scene just kind of petered out it just we weren't listening to each other and we were both nervous and he said to me a premise is a promise this was his note he said a premise is a promise and if you're not a skilled enough improviser to deliver on that then don't initiate a good premise which is like insanely harsh as a note but I took it as a challenge to say like I am a skilled enough improviser to deliver on a premise so I want to be good enough I want to I want to be able to execute a premise because you know there and it also makes sense like when you're learning this stuff you can see what works and you you get like a piece of so I knew how to form a premise but I didn't really know how to execute it so it's helpful to me to like oh having the movie of how it looks in my mind is different than knowing how to make that happen right so that was a huge motivator for me and at the time I was in that class I was also in like a final callback process for a grad school in acting and it was like this I almost feel like this gauntlet was thrown but I had these both of these experiences at the same time and it was like which one of these is going to be the next like four years of my life right and it was it was in prof it was like committing myself to improv more so than this whatever this theater program was so having his class at that time was really formative for me and that advice was really really motivating to get better that was Liz Nooth up next is Sebastian Cannelli what's one of the best notes you've ever gotten Armando Diaz he told me I once made a move in the scene and then it didn't go well so I took that move back like I said oh I didn't mean to do that and Armando goes no you did that don't take it back do it and that was it that was his note yeah so if you do something just stick with it right and it was of course it's that's case by case scenario if you do something horrible I don't - I don't know why it'd be like, "Subash it's Sena gonna keep on doing this." - Right. - No, don't fucking, don't ever quote me, alright? (laughing) - And like, it's just like, "Oh, remember the choices that you're making in the scene, you made them, just stick to it." I think that was just like a simple, Armando also does a great job of just giving you a simple note. - Any other notes that you particularly remember? - I did have to adjust to like not being, like, serving the piece over myself. So, I was the kid that was like, I think it won my shows in like, 301. I was in two of the beats. - Right. - Even though there was eight people. (laughing) And I forced, I wasn't a walk on. I initiated back-to-back beats. (laughing) So my problems are like different than other people's, 'cause I just want to be in it all and try to be funny in it all. I think for me it is about like learning, like, that ego thing that I was saying before, about like learning, I have to serve the greater, the scene, or the greater, the piece. And that's something I'm still learning. So, it was like slap on the wrists like that. I needed a little bit. - That's one of those things also where, because the other side of that is so foreign, it's sometimes for me, it becomes hard to adjust in terms of, I'm always ready to get out there and just do a scene. It's like, and I would gladly initiate a response to every single beat in a Herald. - Of course. - And I know I shouldn't. - Yeah. - But it's hard not to, especially when there's a second of everybody on the back line. I'm already like moving and like, wait, I need to let everybody get out there. But it's because I don't really understand that other half of, wait, why aren't you jumping out? It becomes harder for me to know that I shouldn't. - What do you think the other half is? - Sometimes it might be, because I will sometimes get that like, not quite nervousness, but I don't feel like I can confidently do the one thing. Where it's like, sometimes because I'm, there's always in my head, five different options. Sometimes I'm seeing all five equally. And then after I say one, I realize, should have done that other thing. - Yeah. - Oh, I'm on the back line. I should make this move. And then you see Dave Bluvband come out and make that say move and get a huge laugh. It's like, whoa, fuck. Well, I've done my fucking move. - Yeah. - Then I didn't make. And then I kept it my head. - Yeah, for me, it's about letting go of those ideas. That's what I had to learn. Like being a good improviser is about letting go of the ideas that come to you. Because that's something I'm still like, I always will ask, like, if Lindsey comes to my show, I'll be like, was I in too much? It's to this day it's something I stress about. And I honestly don't think I'm in too much anymore. I do think I share focus, but it is something I'm super aware of. - It's like driving a car where you know the steering wheel drifts a little bit to the right. It's like, okay, I'm just going to have to push a little bit to the left. I'm just to keep on the road. - Yeah. And I'm also not, I'll walk on to a scene and change it. - Yeah. (laughing) - In a bad way. And I've learned the more, when I understand game better, I'm able to not do that, right? And just walk on to provide for the scene. But like, that's was also a growing process for me. Also like learning how to be like a voice of reason in a scene was hard. - How come? - And it goes for me. How come? Because I always want, because that was always the non-fun parts. - Yeah. - To the scene for me. I don't want to just be a person trying to get annoyed and frustrated at the other person. How was that funny? Because that was never what was funny to me, what was funny was always the people that were being silly and getting to be that silly. That always is what felt natural. I think the movie class is what opened that up for me. And when you say like, try to be specific people for my life when I'm playing just based reality, that opened it up for me a lot too. - Because you can still be very funny and to be the voice of reason. - Yes. Yes. As long as I'm serving the scene. - Yeah. And so that, like, I still like struggle. I was on a team with so many funny people. The enemy had so many funny people on it that it was inevitable that I was not going to be the funny person in this scene. - Yeah. Mathematically it would be impossible. - Yes. And so I just had to learn how to, and I remember walking away from shows feeling bad. And we would have a good show, but I would feel bad because I felt like I didn't get a lot of laughs. I remember like talking it out with some people and then just figuring it like, that's not what this is about. I'm not doing improv. I have to, maybe I was doing improv because I wanted to laugh, but that's not what improv is for. And so if I want to continue doing it, I need to do it for what it is, which is creating a great thing together, which is hard because it's ego and how the fuck do you get rid of that? You know, I always want to be the funniest person you can to me. I literally, I legit would leave stage and instantly be making jokes as we're walking to get notes because, and people would say to me he didn't get enough. He would say, right, I did not get enough. - There will never be enough. - No, there will never be. - All the, all the laughter, all the therapy in the world, never going to fill this whole. - No, it's, I, it's, it's sick. It's, and I'm also like, I'm like a ball that you push down a hill. It's really hard for me to stop. I'm never out in the first beats. So even when I did the two back-to-back scenes, it was second-team-thirteenth. - Oh, yeah. - I didn't even give a break for the audience. I'm, I, I try to go out in the first scene every so often because I am a moment, like a momentum person. So like, once the things are moving, I'm like, ready, I'm rolling and, and like, it's hard for me to like control myself with that stuff. That's where like, I worry about like being in too much. And like, so after show, it's hard for me to slow down for a second too. I'm better at it now, but I used to like, struggle with that. I used to be on for a while. But there's nothing more humbling than like having a good show. And for the years, I lived in Staten Island, like just having to go wait for a bus and then stand on a bus for an hour and a half. I needed that momentum for that shit. - Yeah. - Yeah. That was Sebastian Cannelli. And now here is Alex Dixon. What's one of the best notes you ever got? Jordan Klepper said it when I was on "Loyd Night" when he subbed a practice for us. And I was like, I love that. Probably because I went to acting school. But I remind people, I'm like, we're doing theater. Whether you think of yourself as a theater person or not, or whether you think of yourself as an actor or not, you're now an actor and you're doing theater. So people don't come to the theater to see people be over it or not care. And they also don't come to the theater to see people sit across from each other and just talk. They come to see people living their lives. - Yeah. - Which is not to say, that scene was stagnant. This is theater. We needed to be like, take it. - Right. - Whatever. But it is that awareness of, yeah, of this is a stage and there's not a camera zooming in on me. I have a stage. I have a space I can use. I have two doors. I have a curtain. All this stuff that I think, and the audience gets so excited. And I think teams get excited when somebody does make a move and goes out into the vam or uses the god-mic or whatever. Because it's like, oh right. In the theater and we're doing improvs, we can make up whatever we want. So I try to remind people of that, which I do sometimes see when I say that people's faces are like, oh, I'm not. I'm not in sign up for theater. I do comedy. - Right. - Well, you're in the theater now. In that same practice, Jordan said, pointed out to me that I often initiated, gave the unusual behavior to my scene partner and he was the first person to be like, give yourself that. And he framed it in a nice way. He was like, I think you're doing that because you think it's generous. You're like, I'll straight-man you. You'll be funny at this. And he was like, but you know what's funny about it. So you should play it. So that helped a lot. And it was one of the things you brought to, I remember you giving co-workers that a lot. And it's one of those things that I started instantly giving to other people. - Yeah. - I'm stealing for myself on sleuth now or sleuth and now flutty where it's just, oh, I can do a funny thing. - I can do that. - Louis can join me. He can not join me. That's up to him. - Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because I think before Jordan said that I wouldn't have been able to see it in a scene. But now it is like, I'm like, oh, the only thing that was a little weird about that scene was like, you knew what you wanted the behavior to be, but you were trying to tell someone else to do it. And I don't know that I was aware of that dynamic before Jordan gave me that note. When I was in Chicago, I didn't know what this meant at the time, but I think about it a lot now. My teacher, Norm, said to me, he was talking about Amy Sederis and he was like, she was always like one of my favorite people to come through and he said, but she didn't know what her voice was. And he was like, and when I saw strangers with candy, I was like, oh, thank God. She, like, that's her and she got her shut, like, and he said to me, he was like, you need to know what your voice is and not apologize for it. And I was like, what? I thought that just meant like come up with a show idea. Like I didn't know. I was just like, okay. But I think about that a lot, especially when I'm teaching or coaching because I'm like, people think like, oh, well, there's a funny thing to say. And it's like, no, say the thing that you're thinking or feeling because that's the point of you or the voice that you're bringing to this set. And I don't think I understood what he was talking about or why that was important. So I think about that a lot for myself and when I'm coaching and teaching. I feel like that's become one of the delineators. At least in the way that I say it between Lloyd and Harold. Is that often you'll see people on Lloyd do move. that they feel are good UCB moves or good improv moves. And then you'll see people who are just like, I know this is funny and I'm gonna do it. And then they just do it and it's like, that's what we want it. - Yeah. - That's what we want it to see. - I wanted to see you. Yeah, for sure. And I think that's, when I talk about the diversity scholarship in class two, one of the things I say about it is, I'm like the more points of view and voices we have on the stage, the funnier and better it is if we all have people with the same point of view it's like, okay, it becomes that feeling of like, oh that was the move that probably was gonna happen. But the more different backgrounds and ideas of what the unusual thing is and all that stuff. But I didn't know that that's all that norm meant when he was talking about find what your voice is. I was like, I did, what are you talking about? (laughing) So yeah, those are the three that stand out the most, I think. - That was Alex Dixon and here's Devon Richie. - Karen Hammerberg told me that just because they're on a date at a restaurant does not mean you need to play a waiter. - Thank you, yes. - I really did love it and I'm a waiter in my life too. So I was just like, oh I know all the specifics and she's like, it's too much. I was like, you're right, you're right. I don't need to do that. - 'Cause it sometimes has a tendency to take over the scene. - Oh my God. - It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, - It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, I become the weird thing. You know, like, immediately, Christian Capazoli told me to like, just accept and don't judge any person's like, any person's move, just immediately get sucked out of the black hole too, before you can judge it. It's more fun. Starting to play things with fidelity was something that was like a great note for me. You know, they're just like, play it. Real, however this would just be. And I'm like, oh, that clicked for me. I'm just like, how it would be. - Right. 'Cause it feels like you're an imparizer who thinks of things in terms of, I'm gonna say like the setting, but in terms of that kind of like reality of actually existing as a human. - Yeah, it's just like, if this is true, what else is true? You know, and I'm really trying to set things like, and believe me, I love playing, you know, shit monsters from Space Mountain, but like, I wanna play things as real as possible. If you're doing that, I'm gonna play like, if that's true, what else is true? Like, what is the reality of that scene? And I just wanna see the walls. I wanna touch the things, have my feelings, and like, know what I'm wearing and doing, you know? It looked like I love being very clear about setting the environment and playing within your environment. - That was Devon Richie. Now here's Will Hines. - Participate from James Eason. Owen Burke said like, "Object work, like don't think about it too much. You've eaten a bowl of cereal a million times, so just eat it again." You just do it. Joe Wenger, like your tag out should be more as absurd or more absurd than whatever you're tagging out. The absurdity should go, stay the same or go up. It shouldn't go down. - Which seems very obvious. - My tag out had made it less absurd. He gave me that note and I was like, oh yeah. - Yeah. - It was like on-game, but it was less good. - Right. (laughing) - That was a helpful one. Avoid common wisdom from Neil Casey. - What does that mean? - Like, don't preach something we all know. Don't make a big game out of Fox News being conservative. Like that's just a base reality. - Yeah. - That's not, you're not wowing us. - Yeah. - Don't common wisdom is not a good basis for your game. - Right. I was just reading a thing about how the problem with late night shows, it's harder to make them funny because we're all now just reacting to common wisdom. - Yeah. - Yeah, Fox News is crazy. Oh, the president did this. And he doesn't feel as subversive to say any of these things. - This is more outlets like the standard syrup. Like it used to be only Johnny Carson would be the one making the jokes. So he only had to beat expectations. Which were high, but like it's, now there's five guys doing that plus everybody on Twitter. - Yeah. - And whatever, rather than a video comes out. Improv Rules are life rules. That's any in Robert's sentence. - Okay. - Behavior like life. Most Improv Rules are to make you look more like real life on stage. - Okay. - They're there to avoid transaction scenes and teaching scenes because in real life, they don't occupy our mind too much. - Right. - Improv is disposable from at-walsh. Like don't be too precious about it. Be emboldened by how temporary it is. Yeah, I remember those notes. Billy Mer was my first coach. So his notes were just training wheels notes. I'm gonna quote him, but I don't think he would stand by these as good improv principles as much as good things to say to a nervous young improvist who's terrified. Be like if he walked in and went beep in the first beat, maybe walk in and go beep on the second beat. - No stage picture can go a long way. If you give a good stage picture, if you have nothing else to do. (laughing) Play some genres you've never played before. Play a character you've never played before. The audience will smell the bravery on you. I remember what's, keep your numbers real. Like Andy Sacundin noted me for saying like $10 million in a scene who's like $10 million. - Right. - And I was like, oh, $1 million. (laughing) - Which is, it's one of those very simple things, but it is just like how is it going back to reality? It's not mud, it's not the water. - It's stay connected, yeah. - Yeah, stay precise, stay specific. - Yeah. That was Will Hines. Here's Bill DePiro. What are some notes that you remember like affecting you? - I remember very early being told not to lean against the wall or to put my hands in my pockets or anything like that. Like to be ready and sort of eager to get out. - Yeah. Which is very simple, but like I notice anytime I stopped wearing like a, I don't like to wear like a sweatshirt or a, or even like any sort of like sweater with pockets because I don't like, I don't like having my hands in pockets and if I have pockets right there, I have that impulse to do it, but it does affect it. - Totally. And I think that's just about being like present in listening. I feel like with having an opening, that's what's hard. I don't think I'm particularly good at this. I used to be I think very good at, I would hear everything and I would like keep it all because I didn't feel like I had to be correct in a second beat or something where I would try and go down the line and like remember everyone's thing. And I'd be able to, I remember there were times in like even like 401, where I was just like maybe more practice in this from having come from DC where I was like, I could have initiated everyone's second beat and then had a third beat idea for them all. And maybe now it's like, I still have those ideas, but I'm just like, I've already seen that, I've seen that. And so I'll like throw them away as I'm standing there, but which makes me less present. And then there's also rules about walk-ons and stuff, which I think are good for the most part, but it's maybe more fun where you feel like at any moment, you can jump out and do it. That's why I always hate the Laurent 'cause it's like, all right, well, let me wait 20 minutes. Maybe I'll be back out there. - I'd, when we did the like, the waterfall thing where it was like one to eight, eight to one, I had that same problem of, I think I was the eight a couple times and then I would go in, do the scene and leave and I would have that feeling on the back line of, oh, I have the birds I view, I wanna edit this. We need to pick up our pace, but there's nothing you can do from outside to like help your team and to be with your team and enjoy that. - Totally. - That was Bill DiPiero. Now here's Kevin Hines. What's one of the best notes or what are some of the best notes you've ever gotten? - I feel like you warned me of this question and I didn't think about it, I should have. A note that I go back to, this is a Delaney note that I have recounted to him and he, I don't know if you like the note, but I love the note. I was in a scene, a group scene. I maybe told you this already. I'm gonna start over and tell you. - Go for it. - I was in a group scene for a Harold class and somebody came out and sort of setting up an instrument for like an orchestra and somebody else came out sort of setting up another instrument. And that second person came out and complimented the first person's shirt. - Hey, I like that shirt. - Started setting up whatever instrument. They said a third person came up, sort of setting up an instrument. So that first person, hey, nice shirt. All right, we got a pattern. The fourth person came out, hey, nice shirt. Sat down, but sat down maybe a little further away from everybody else, not on purpose. This person wasn't thinking about it. I remember being in that scene and just, when the next person came out, started setting up as the conductor, complimented the shirt first. Started setting up as a conductor. I said, hey, the best soon player still sitting too close to us. Referring to this person who just had come out. - Yeah. - So the conductor was like, you need to move further away. Something I moved further away. The next person came out, complimented the shirt, sat down. It's like, why is everyone complimenting the shirt? And up to that point, it was just, 'cause the people before you said, done, and I think that person was like, that's the first unusual thing. Everyone's complimenting that shirt. He's like, yeah, I guess. It's not funny. This best soon player thing, maybe that's funny, but that's not funny. And he wasn't even sure. I think the best soon player move was funny, but it was like, it was way more interesting than the shirt. - Yeah. - Maybe the shirt could have been funny if it was done a different way, if we were better improvisers, but just to do it, 'cause you felt you had to. And that's the note I sort of heard through it. Don't do it just 'cause you have to. Do it 'cause it's fun. Funny, like, follow the thing that it should be about. And group games especially fall into that. Of just pattern, pattern, pattern, pattern, pattern, with no one enjoying it. - I often got the note of like, why are we seeing this scene? Why this moment, why now? Why these characters right now? And I get that on an intellectual level, but that didn't connect to me as much as, that's not funny. This thing is funny. Do the funny thing. It's like, oh, that's why we're seeing this scene. To see that funny thing. Maybe this guy has a nice shirt, but that's not why. - Yeah, that's the coincidence. - Yeah. - That's not why we tuned in. We tuned in 'cause this person player's been ostracized and we gotta find out what that's all about. That's, I'm interested in that. And I use that in opening and in scenes and no matter what I do, it's just like, something is fun. And I wanna follow that thing. So that's a note that meant a lot to me. - That was Kevin Hines and here is Joey Price. What is one of the best notes you remember receiving? Remember Brandon Scott Jones was like subcoaching? It's kind of the enemy or a slamble. And he just kind of said like, Joey, don't have a problem with the thing, just do the thing. That's huge. - Yeah. (laughing) - And so that I think was like a big one. And a note that I tell students all the time now. It's like, you set up that this is what you're gonna do. Just do it. - Yeah, I think that's something kind of clicked when that was said. In 401 I remember like, there was a scene. I was like in a scene and it was going a certain way and it was like a pretty clear game. And then like something kind of funny happened. And I think Brennan challenged me to a sword fight. Even like, and it was like a funny move to make and it was the right move to make it kind of. But it was like kind of a shift in what was happening in the scene and I was like, oh, I left my sword at home or something like that. And I remember Kevin behind who is my teacher just kind of being like, if you're a scene partner or I don't even know if he was my scene partner, but like, if somebody like asks for a thing, have that thing. And I think that's a big thing too. It's like, always have what somebody has. Even if in your head it doesn't make any sense or it's kind of like a little bit of a detour. There's probably something there that will still get you back to it. I've been thinking about that same thing a lot with information where it's rather than a character asking something about somebody else, even if it makes no sense for you to know that thing about that other person, just know what it is, right? Even if you're just like a barista and this is your customer and it hasn't been set up that you know each other, just know that they have a doctorate in paleontology or whatever's necessary for the scene rather than, by the way, why are you here? It would have, yeah, it's fucking say it. Yeah, I agree, 100%. That was Joey Price. Finally, here's Ray Cordova. Oh, fuck. One of the best notes. Or some of the best notes. Yeah, I'll say some of them. It's hard to pick one, but so am I 401 again. I've had so many good teachers, oh man. One of my favorites is definitely Curtis Quinn. And it wasn't even a note, and again, like, I don't know if anyone's out there. There were definitely, but you know what I first, like my 101, 101 days, I remember like, if I was like in the background, I know it wouldn't get up for a while. I don't have almost my mind, I'd be like, I gotta watch for a while. You fucking learn so much from watching. And you hear that, but it's so true. So like if you're just starting an improv, it's real, it's the moments where you're watching other people get noted, 'cause you can learn so much from someone else's notes. So it was a scene happening in my 401 with Angela D and Brian, I forgot your last name, Brian, but you know who you are. I wanna say Whitty, Brian Whitty. Look at Brian Whitty and Angela D. They were in a scene. I think it was just a cliche, and probably he came home from work. He was kind of bad at a rough day. Angela made his favorite dinner. It was spaghetti. He was sick of spaghetti. - Right. - She's like, I'm trying to do a nice thing for you. And it was all about spaghetti. Oh, I find it, we're at spaghetti every day. Then then then then, she's like, what's your favorite? I don't choose you up. I even made the sauce you like. The whole thing was about spaghetti. And while they're going back and forth, it wasn't, it was a pretty not good scene. It was like, it was a classic just, you kinda get lost in the wrong detail, the wrong specific. And while they're talking back and forth, her scream yells out, fuck spaghetti. Oh my God, fuck the spaghetti. What are you, it's about you. He didn't call the scene. I kept going with the scene. And then we were done, he was like, yeah, sorry about that, guys. This wanted you to really feel, he was like, it's never about the spaghetti. - Yeah. - He could be anything. He was like, the spaghetti is there. You can go back to the spaghetti if you need to, but I care about the two of you. I don't wanna hear about spaghetti. I don't care about how much you're tired of eating it. I don't wanna hear about what's beyond the spaghetti. That's just part of the puzzle, but that's not what we're here to talk about. I think that was a big no. It was like, yeah, don't get caught up in that thing. If you're in a scene, it's like, have you had a verse read, here's your gift. Or it's like, oh, I know we can have cats and dogs by Brahma Puppy. Like, yeah, that's a fun part to help you get to the game. But that isn't the game itself. You can't just stick on the item in the scene. It's about the people in the scene. I think him just saying, I'll never forget fuck spaghetti. I definitely yelled at fuck spaghetti. I've told classic media this story. And I've yelled at them fuck spaghetti when they're not focused on the right part of the focus on the scene. So that always rang out to me from Curtis Quinn. And then a bit of a life advice he gave me. This is a little bit, for me, at the time, it was a little bit scandalous. I was like, I was even 401, he told the whole class, it finally was talking to me. We could have been some of us at a bar. We used to hang out too. It was really cool. He was, Curtis Quinn was a great, we used to hang out and drink something at Manus. He says to us, he goes, you guys are great and hilarious and your fun people don't get stuck. Don't find yourself paying any part of a fraternity or a sorority. Take the tools you need, use them and get out. But if you have in your mind a next step, take it before it's too late. Don't get wrapped up in it. And like, I think that was good advice. And to hear him say that, because it's so easy. It's so, the community feels so good in UCB. It's very easy to get lost in it and get sidetracked. And not even think about sometimes pursuing other things. You get so lost in the shows and the classes and going out to drink at Manus. He's all that stuff. It's like, oh yeah, I have other parts of my life and others that I want to do. So he was just like, don't get lost in it. Still do other shit and like, something I was great at by C.G. He also gave me that to me as he was leaving to LA. So I feel like, yeah, but he lived it. Yeah. A lot of the greats, I think it's this thing of like, they wake up one day and it's like, yeah, I'm the master of this. But now what else is there for me? Yeah. I mean, like, Will Harnes is amazing. But I'm so happy he's in LA going now. Yeah. I think it's at that time where it's like, that doesn't mean that you have to go to LA. But it's like, even like, you know what, people, I think people think I'm crazy for stepping down from hell and I, I'm a real riley stepped down from hell and I, and I remember thinking like, what? Is he gonna be on TV? Is this thought of like, you only leave hell and you have a great opportunity waiting for you. Yes. That's like if you're not on hell and I, I want you on it. You realize like, this is another part of it. Yeah. Whatever reason you got into improv, if you didn't get in solely for improv, that's only a part of it. Yeah. Getting on hell and I, you have to still do other things. This doesn't give you opportunities. Right. And you will think that. It does. Yeah. In the minorist way. Right. Yes. It's like, oh, I get to audition for a salad shooter commercial or some bullshit. Look at him. At the end time they can't work. Yeah. You know, I mean, tonight the president showed for me. It's like, you know, I mean, come on. How many years he's been bustin' us behind. And you know, we can't, just part of, arguably, one of the greatest teams ever. Yeah. And took him a long time to kind of get his slice, you know? I think we have a tendency to climb ladders just because they're in front of us. Yes. Yes. And Harold Knight and, or weekend and all the way, it feels like that sometimes of, I love doing this. Yeah. And I, but I have to check in with myself every once in a while and just say, am I doing this because this is something that I love and feeds me? Or because I know I want to be better than this. I want to be, I want to be looked up to in some way, which is a bad reason to do it. Yeah, definitely. That was very cordova. By the way, here's one of the best notes I ever got. One of my first indie teams had just done our first show at school night at UCB. It was very late on a Wednesday night. And Gavin Speeler, our coach, saw it and gave us notes afterwards. At one point in the show, one person, Ben, had tagged everyone out into a new scene where we were all artists looking at a model and painting. The scene completely stalled and we all fell flat. After the show, Gavin said, Ben made a move that didn't work. But it's not on Ben. It was on the entire team to make that move work. That affected how I improvised and how I coached. The team should always be trying to make everything work when it doesn't and make everything as funny as possible when it does. That may mean supporting by getting the fuck out of the way and letting people in the scene knock it out of the park. Or that may mean supporting by jumping on the grenade, by getting in there and going down with the ship. But it's always about the team. [MUSIC PLAYING] That was episode nine. Please rate and review the podcast on iTunes. And if you have any feedback for me, please send it to [email protected]. Thanks to everyone who is part of this episode. Jessica Morgan. Hi, Lydia Hensler. Hi, I'm Jesse Lee. Hi, I'm Jenny Siananjolo. Hi, I'm Lily Doe. Bolly Thomas. I am Chris Scott. James Dwyer. Nicole Dresspell. I'm Morgan Phillips. I am Achilles Stalmatalaki. Liz Nooth. Sebastian Cannelli. Alex Dixon. Devin Richie. My name is Will Hines. Bill DePiro. Kevin Himes. Joey Price. Ray Cuedova. And I'm Curtis Reutherford. [MUSIC PLAYING]