#048 - Will Synnott V3 - Sales & Startup Life In Construction Tech

The real value is then planning what the works are, not them walking around a grocery site. I'm not saying that they don't add value. Of course they do because they understand the grocery store. But I'm saying is that other ways there's other ways of doing it and there's other there's other more efficient ways and other methodologies out there. What is up everyone and thanks for tuning into another episode of the Bricks and Bytes podcast. You'll go to for all things construction and property technology. On today's episode we welcome Will Synit, the second half of our recently recorded podcast with Will. In this episode we focus on the life of a construction tech entrepreneur. We focus on Will's role as one of the industry's top salesman, his advice on growing startups, the importance of content and community and Will's productivity tips for managing a busy life. If you're enjoying our podcast please check us out on Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcast from and please leave us a review. This helps us get the most amazing guests to give you guys the best and most informative content on technology in the built world. Shout out to our sponsor, Beta. If you want to connect with some of the biggest players in the construction tech world including tier one building contractors, some of the biggest construction tech companies, investors and advisors check them out by visiting www.thehifrombeater.com. You are listening to Bricks and Bytes podcast where we take you on a journey in construction, technology and business. All right, let's get this episode started. So Will, how was your commute back to the studio? It was quick, swift and it's good to be back here again. Okay, so yeah, part one we really dive deep into what this verse is doing for the industry, how you got on with your trip in Saudi and how you guys how to actually change in industry. It's one of the real construction tech solutions that I feel has a very strong use case and I say that because I don't see that with like every construction tech solution I'm aware of. So definitely a strong strong candidate. Yeah, I was going to say yeah. But this side we're going to talk more about the touchy feeling and I'll make the joke again not literally. So yeah, but yeah, so we kind of wanted to do this into your house because this first, the second part will be more about how some how someone's career can adapt and their the life of a construction tech like entrepreneur or entrepreneurs as more of what you are will and how it looks like working for a startup and obviously your flow from engineer into the position that you're in right now. So we'll very simply what the how do you do? Simple, I am a cheesy salesman. No, I am essentially a business development rep. So yes, a salesman if you wanted to just make it easy, I am my role, my goal, my KPI is to sell to first platform solutions in post and just look ahead to as many of my clients as possible. That's like fundamental. Yeah, and sales is a very very strong career. I know as people we have a kind of I feel like there's a bit of a stigma attached with the role of sales. People are like, I just a salesman, but 100% not true. As it in terms of career salesman. We're all salesman. Anyway, everyone is. Yeah, we're doing it. And especially if you're a business owner as all you have to be doing it. Yeah. So I think there's some stats. I can't prove this, but I've read many a book or heard many people speak of Alan Pockas is being one of the paid, if not the highest paid career, obviously, within recent, and go to like footballers and stuff like that. So definitely a great path to pursue. And what I personally love about it is the psychology side of it. I know you mentioned that earlier, but there's a lot of that to it. There is. Yeah, there's not just a psychology. There is some pressures. There's some big pressures of, oh, we should be talking about in a minute, but we are all salespeople. We all do it every day, you know, in terms of negotiating, in terms of your pay rise or not, or even if you come into selling your house, we all do it. It's just different different elements. And then when it comes to sales, you know, you're always prospecting. You're always looking at opportunities. Have you heard of the same ABC? Always. Always. Always. Always be closing. I have indeed. Okay. Okay. Is that what you get out of the morning? First thing you get out of bed like ABC. Yeah. Anyway, what does what does a day in the life look like of? Yeah. So my typical day would be, you know, on the road to the office, fortunate I've got my own office outside of my, in my local town. And I'm already picking up emails checking to see if I've had an inbound traffic has anything happened over the last, you know, the last 12 or 13 hours. It was not checked my phone, so to speak. Anything come in that I might want to be able to jump on. I think that's one of the key. If it's something comes in inbound, we try to jump on it as fast as possible because they are interested. Yeah. So if I can go the call is throughout me. Why the eye is hot. Exactly. Exactly. And it's not like me trying to press down the next day, you know, by this verse, it's more just like, right, you've just taken your time to message me. At least I can do this to respond back to you as fast as possible. And also, I'm sure this starts out there. As soon as you do it, it's so that you get back to them, the more likely you're going to at least get a demo out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that so normally that my style would be doing that, checking emails, checking Slack, which Slack's great if anyone might use it. But then seeing also internal comments because although, yes, business development rep sells is one of my key elements. I also then support with implementation, you know, work across a number of projects across London and whether UK and Ireland. So just checking on it. So if there's anything that I need to be aware of, has there been an issue with the client that I need to be able to pick up a responsibility? But then also I'm pretty fortunate. I'm also helping out in marketing and products in the general running of this vessel. We all are. You know, so it's still a very to be small startup. So I say that we're over 200 staff now. So I think we realize that. That's pretty cool. So when you left your job in, let's say, traditional industry, how did that, you obviously didn't fly straight in as the director? You had that you had up UK, you know, directors or did you? No. So actually when I joined, I was just an account executive, account director and I went lie. I had to Google what that was. I didn't know. I'm before this. I was an associate geotech engineer working at Robert Bird Group because I was firm here in London and I didn't know what that was. I had an idea. And essentially a account manager. And I said, okay, where is this? What's my role? What am I going to be doing? I have a good idea. And then, you know, a few things have happened and changes within the first. And I was promoted, I guess, to the director's strategic accounts. So myself, what is there anything you felt like you've done in order to get apart from being ready good at your job? But I know, for example, you do a lot of our, let's say, extracurricular. The door doesn't shut at nine at five o'clock for you. You're very active on social issues. Yeah, I've always been like that as well. I've definitely more on social media now because there is definitely a correlation with more effort into social media and LinkedIn and getting my name out there to opportunities arising coming about and also then then closing clear clear correlation. And I also really enjoy it. My role going into becoming my role now definitely took some new opportunities and new challenges. I've got a lot more clients and to deal with and also have got colleagues to support. And also, there are the pressures. I think there's one thing that I didn't realise. I'm just being open about it. I've gone from being an engineer which one of my biggest KPIs was don't make the building don't fall over. The power stand up or an ostanda, don't move. I'm sure, make sure that I'm signing something off that I retain walls in fall over. Which is quite fortunate. The industry is incredibly safe and but I'm now my new my new pressure is I'm going to get a revenue and it's not just my salary that I've got to pay for. I've also got to get the revenue into them to pay the help pay. It's not just me. We're at a team. So then support the others and that is a different pressure and it's not pressure I expected. Okay, so pressures, what do you love about the job? I think so there are some great there's some big highs. When you do actually get to the point and you make that on a sale and you know you actually get that sign. Yes, we're going with it. It's a huge relief. It's a huge massive. It's humongous and yeah, I mean you literally just you've just secured that. So you know, so you know that you've got that actual work coming for the business, you're hitting your numbers and if you know you've also worked from something really hard, that is my way of like finishing something off. You know, someone builds something they get a massive bit of finishing building. I'm building up essentially a building with a sale going through the process of getting that person to sign that contract. That contract is my building. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how you relate to construction and so what do you not like about? What should we say? What do you find yourself delegating? Well, I think projections and everyone says it's in sales. Rejection is it's really it's especially the first few times that we're done wrong. Why? Why are you saying? Well, or like that missed opportunity to like I should have just tried a little bit harder. I'm pretty competitive person. So it's like what do I do wrong? What do I miss? And then I'll but then that's how I grow and that's how everyone grows. And I try to use it. It's definitely a moment where I have a little, I don't want to say a cry about it. I definitely have a little moment to go right. So it's so far. Get back in the game. What did you do wrong? Work on that. Build on that and get better. And I think that's I'm hoping but the numbers can show it but also just I think me as a person if you know over the last year I've learned so much. And I know I part one of this. I talk about different elements and different industries. That's me just learning and just like getting better. And if we did it in a year's time I'm going to be I like to think I'm going to get better. Yeah. Going back to like other things I find painful. Yeah, I don't necessarily I don't delegate too much. I try to make sure I delegate the right work to what it's meant to be. Probably one of the hardest hard things I have is actually do delegating. Control freak I am. That's probably one of the issues but when I do do know there's a deal that hasn't worked out. Yeah. I'll have a moment. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, well, rejection is an essential part of the process. Yeah. Every rejection is a learning experience. Exactly, exactly. Okay, so let's talk about sales and how it relates to growing startups because you would have obviously had, do you have any idea about how many employees were the first one you joined versus? A little bit, I know that when, you know, we, right now in our sales team, there's in the UK, at least, my self and known screening, where the account executives and we're running all our projects across. When I say running, I'm not running, 'cause there's also Marie Dintin, who's at his, I have a solution, so to speak. So, you know, she does a fantastic job, but Owen and I are very much crucial in terms of like finding opportunities, also just working with our existing clients that we work with, you know, Mace, Coneywell contractors, sort of on the Carpine, in all the simulates, et cetera. And, you know, that's our role, you know, to do that. So, but, you know, there is definitely, you know, we were a lean team. We also have support, we have a BDR as well, and we have a few other team members who are marketing as well, but, you know, we try to keep it lean. And, you know, also that allows us to be efficient. Yeah. For the time that we have. Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. So, okay, so, what do you think people, what are where do your companies, more specifically, start-ups, if we can throw the difference, fail when it comes to sales? Mm, it's a question. Well, haven't failed yet. So, I guess I've made some other questions, but I think looking across, I think you need, well, especially in the construction industry, it's about building those relationships. And, it's also just getting out on site. I think that there is too much, and I've said this before in your last podcast, the very first one was, you know, getting out on site, getting in front of your clients, getting all prospects, you know, actually getting out there. And, I think that's where, I think we may see some people not, if you're not doing that, if your account executive isn't going out on site, or is reluctant to go out, I think you need to start on questions, and that's what I would be doing. Yeah. Because you're dealing with some of the busiest people in the world, and they are so immune to emails that, you know, you send them a spam email all the time, they get it, it's that whatever. Because they get loads of them already. Okay, I'd like to talk to you about cold outreach. Yeah, let's, let's, let's, let's say. Yeah, we can talk about that. Yeah, let's, I'm going to make a note. Cold, yeah. 'Cause I feel the pain there. Yeah, any other kind of places you obviously mentioned getting out there, getting into some sort of. Good, good, networking events, and being, you know, you want your account executive, you know, you want them to be on top, so. I mean, they, they mean to fair, if they're in their role, and I'm saying this like in the pro, I'm not. I mean, you're in a half into this, so there's a lot of things I'm still learning. So please, if anyone is a kind of executive, listen to this guy, he's talking to the rubbish. I love to have your feedback, so I can only get better, but I think ultimately, you're dealing with people and its relationship world in the construction tech, and construction industry, and if you can't have a good respectful conversation with them and understand the issues that they're having, then you can have a good visual. Yeah, sure. So what's on code outreach, like, what's your views right now, and before I think, and I have heard, I have some friends who are in sales too, that like outbound is, I don't wanna say dead, but very difficult at the moment. Outbound is always hard. I think outbound today, we are so inundated with information, notifications from our phone, that we become immune to it. We are immune to it, and you then being above everyone else is more difficult, and it's mainly getting worse with that GVT and all the other algorithms, or technology out there, just being able to spam people. 'Cause it's a number game. I've seen that, I can call a bunch of people, and I know roughly that by the time I've done X number, I'm gonna get one person gonna pick up and chat to me. It's a numbers game, and then as you improve your pitch and as you improve your delivery, that numbers game will improve, and you'll go up by one or two percent next week, and then a week after. So understanding your numbers, that's really crucial, like where you are, and they're also just being on top of that, and talking as a team, that's actually another thing, it's like start-ups. If you've got more than one or two or three people that are sales, talk with each other. Like, "All right, today I tried this, and it didn't work." But then I did this and did that, and if you tell that other person that they learn, they level up, and it missed a beast. I think if you follow the YouTube sensation, MrBeast, I've listened to a few of his podcasts, and he did exactly that. And his very early days was four or five of them, and they literally spent on Skype at the time, and they just talked about like, how to make the perfect video, what have you learned? And they all shared knowledge, and then a few of them went off and did really well, but MrBeast obviously is. But my point is that they were sharing their collaborating very quickly, constantly iterating and changing, and that's why I think sales teams need to do more if you're gonna get higher and improve your rates. Especially when it comes to call messaging, and so on, et cetera. Like, "What work today? I don't know." I hear, "Well, you don't have to go out there, "continue where your number's decreased, "or I've tweaked my numbering, or my text slightly." Or, "These people here, I didn't think they were quite "the right, but I've gone from anyway, "and that's probably pulled my numbers out." And I can't, "Well, we know that they're not the right person, "let's target these guys instead." Yeah, see, very much a team. Do you have, like, is there a concept of competition within a team in sales? 'Cause I can imagine it, I guess. Well, you saw. Yeah, of course, we've all got numbers, that we need to hit. There's always a competition, you know, you know, you know, you're dealing with sales people or at least for myself, 'cause I'm incredibly competitive, and I wanna win. But I just want to beat my fellow colleagues. No, I want to win disperse. I want us to do really well, 'cause I know, if I do, if disperse, if I help disperse win, I know I'm changing the industry. Yeah. So there's a cure, you know, I'm not, disperse is just essentially the platform, the tool that I know is gonna help me change the construction industry, 'cause we're already doing, I just need to get the word out there. What's the word for that, my semantic? I don't know, semantic, but I don't know. It's really turn over to Martin, maybe, he might not. Yeah, okay, so why do people buy construction text solutions? Is this a stupid question? No, 'cause sometimes the day you know that this technology exists. Yeah. So I think, you know, I mean, one of the roles of a sales person is to kind of like, is to try and identify the problem. Yeah, what issue do you actually have in the research? Do you actually have an issue? No, I don't. Oh, well, then there's no point in selling this to you, because you're not gonna use it, and if you don't use it, you're not gonna give me a bad review, or, and that's it, gone. Which I think is an issue in the industry, because you're happy with that, I just selling stuff. Oh, yeah. And then just walking away, which we don't, I don't do that. We're selling you a platform that I get heavily invested in, all my product, all my projects, 'cause I'm building something, you know. But yeah, he's one of the things that, you know, pretty crucial, but yeah. So. Yeah, and then what motivates people? 'Cause I think it's a tough industry to sell to, you know? Yeah. Yeah, so. So what kind of makes people, is perk up like, when you're explaining it? Yeah, so I think the first thing is to listen to them, is like try to understand, like if you talk to a plan for an example, I know already that one of the pain points is that they're gonna have to walk across entire construction site. And track how much works they've been done. That's the old school method. Okay, so it's like, right, I've had a denser problem, you got an issue there. And also, you know, the site's changing at the time. My platform here can help you by reducing that to nothing. You know, we'll do that for you. That's what our platform do. So then I've captured that. And then that person goes, "Wait, so you're gonna save me a day's worth every week?" Yeah, seven and a half hours a day? Brilliant. I can do this from home. Yeah, you can. And we have got lots of plans who do it. Schedulers in America, I think they call it. You know, who literally work remotely. So I've identified a problem. And that's, and then there is, we'll pick up when they say, when I make their life more efficient, and you take that friction thing that they don't know how to do as much value. Like the real value is them planning what the works are. Not them walking around a construction site. Typing them. I'm not saying that they don't have value. Of course they do, because they understand the construction site. But I'm saying is that, there's other ways of doing it. And there's other more efficient ways, and other methodologies out there. So that's one. Identify the, and then that's just one persona. And then you obviously have subconscious failures. You know, we track all the tasks go in. Well, that you have two, three days of doing a valuation. You know, you've got to walk in the entire site and see how much work we've done. Well, the plan has been doing it as well. So you're both doing it. Well, you're going to go do it. Well, here's an invite. Tell you every contract. And that's what they've done. And I said that, you know, I'm going to showcase that. Brilliant. That's, so again, just finding that problem that they have and then just trying to leverage that. And I guess find that pain point that they have. Kind of like, empathize it, but like, this is what we're going to help you say. If genuinely helping them, then there's no problem with that. Exactly. Yeah, nice. And how do you deal with pushbacks from clients not went to a dot tech key point here? Very strong resilience in construction. There's a way that works and it's worked for a very long time. I'm talking for a number there, but obviously, tech is a kind of new-ish new-ish in construction, like it's gaining momentum. I'd say construction technology has been around since the invention of the wheel. Construction technology is all around us. The excavator is construction technology. The crane is construction technology. We just don't consider it construction technology because it's part of the woodwork. Yeah. And even the X or especially, it's construction technology. QS is planners. Everyone uses it. We're just a different platform. All these different platforms are out there that are just not aware of how do we integrate this into my workflow. How do I use this? There's always a resilience of anything. I've like, how do I actually incorporate this? So education. Yeah, exactly. But also, I think the market's changing. Dispersing other platforms like, we're a planner, we're a scheduler, we're a site manager, we're an engineer, we're a project director. There's all these things that we do, we cater. Everyone benefits from it. I just don't have, the market hasn't given me one person yet. It hasn't given me one person that fits into that bill. So I need the, and that's the same with the excavator driver. The excavator was created, the excavator driver wasn't created. It took time for someone to learn how to drive and do it. That makes sense. I never kind of going off topic. But yeah, but in terms of like educating people, that is, yeah, the industry has an issue when it comes to it. Who is, who is like a, in your role, who are you selling to? Like, yeah, are you selling to the right person? Well, I guess that's what you have to find out. You know, that's the, you know, you, first you want to try to get in there. You have a queue personas that you know that are usually a high decision makers based upon all the works that you've done before, I know that person, that title they've always bought for me, this title they've bought for me, strangely, this person over here has also bought for me or has been a key champion. And I think every construction contract is set up slightly different. To a degree, there is a similar hierarchy, but people have different interests. And some people who want to spearhead this together, yeah, I definitely want to do this because I will, you don't even go on a construction site. Yeah, but I know that it's going to change the industry. All right, let's go. Yeah. So, and then that's part of the role of, you know, your outreach, trying to find those people in you as an executive, I guess, like coaching them to like, well, this is what I typically find. Who do I need? And I need to get that decision-maker in that ultimately. Yeah, fine. Okay, cool. So I'm moving on to a little bit more of what I find. I'm not saying that's that what we used to be right, interesting, but this topic here is super exciting to me. So, and you are quite heavy on the content creation, should we say? So, could we call your content creator? No, I don't think I do. Or as well as others cool myself. Well, there was a lady the other day saying that it's actually more like 8% interaction. Yeah, that's yeah, I've had that was an interesting start. Yeah, I was that kind of worried me. So just yeah, just for business, I guess it's someone who's been saying is that 80% of the time you should be commenting and engaging in comments and then the other 20% posting. And apparently LinkedIn likes that and apparently all social media platforms. So that's a good takeaway from this. That's a parallel shift for me. I mean, I appreciate engagement already. Engagement is important. Yeah, massively. Yeah. The effort I find is actually in the creation of the content. So it's like, hmm, yeah, you actually creating putting a post up. Yeah, that's a real thinking, right? Yeah. If you're just engaging in someone's done, done the thinking for you and you just kind of adding it or maybe a bit of experience. Yeah, but that's why like podcasts like this is really good because you're essentially making a lot of content and then you can just be I mean, from my side, just from the selfish point of view, yeah, I know this is going to go out and I've really listened to this and go, I remember we'll send it to the universe. And I want to talk to him about cultural technology and it was just simple. I just sit here and talk to you and he's like, why do we do this so? But the only issue with podcasts is that the cool two actions really poor. Yeah, you know, most of the people you're going to listen to this are probably going to be in a car or they're going to be on a tube where there's no internet connection and they're going to get they're going to finish this podcast and then they're going to go into the next podcast and forget about me. And I know that because that's what happens to me. All right, listen to a great bit of the podcast. Brilliant. I need to I'm driving. So, but the ability to be able to share the awareness of it, podcasts are fantastic. Brilliant. Anyone can listen to it. And I think that's what has I mean, I know we're going to touch on it, but your podcast I originally helped me massively, a to just give the boost of awareness of who dispersing myself is, but also sharing to clients so that right, I know we're meeting next week, listen to this 40 minutes when you're running, you're going to know a lot more about dispersing me. Brilliant. And then when I come to meet them, they already know who I am. Yeah, they've already listened to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but the problem is that the cool two actions really poor, whereas if you send something like an email and I say, here's my PDF with what I'm supposed to have a look at it, that person has to then sit there, look at it and go, right, I'm actually going to take time out my day to look at this, whereas a lot of podcast consumption is done outside of hours of people just wanting to continue to develop the, you know, the learning that runs. Yeah, yeah, very much more casual listening. Yeah, interestingly podcasting is also kind of different where you are in the world as well in terms of like, can't remember the exact step, but I think in America, more people listening in their cars. Yeah, we're driving. Exactly. UK is more like you're more listening to it whilst walking or doing the chore or whatever. So how do you, how important do you think content creation is in construction tech? And I feel like as we've technology in construction generally, we're in like an exciting period, should we say, and there's a lot of like early adoption or yeah, and I also feel like that's just kind of the same thing with content creation, but interesting. Yeah, but yeah, so it's definitely more content creation coming out because there's more influences out there who are seeing the emergence of this field as a of its own brand, its own sphere of events like, how can I help influence this industry? We're seeing a lot more of it because the industry's not had this before, you know, there's a lot of excitement around technology. And usually if you're in a technology company, you're pretty good at technology yourself. So when it comes to creating content either making like a cool reel on Instagram or if you're making some sort of video content, you know, stitching things together, you're probably pretty good at already. Yeah. So it's just thinking a lot of it. The reason why we're probably seeing a bit more of an explosion now is because we're now in industry now that's actually just got better. We've educated ourselves whereas other industries, they've already adapted technologies, those pitos influences have already been good at technology. And that's why we're probably seeing this change in our industry like ourselves. I wouldn't say I'm a content creator at all. I just like making information to kind of share and try to help educate other people. I also just like sharing donors and you know, I'm buying people and giving them smiles. I think construction the way is as well probably reacts quite harshly to content because it's kind of new and like, you know, it's like you've got like an old school builder. I'm going to take that thing out. What else? I mean, I remember being on a construction site in 2012 and we were discussing about time lapse photography and I'm if I had LinkedIn then or not. I had some sort of social media but I remember them saying I remember them talking about time lapse cameras and they were talking about it and it was literally the start of it, at least from what I could see. And they were doing it not necessarily to try to work something but more just for the content like it looks so good. You know, just seeing a building from zero to hero, you know, just it's so cool and it was like a whole new fresh thing. And now, you know, we see loaded it and it still look great. They still look awesome. But we're seeing a lot more different videos. We see so many more videos about 3Dbim or talk about Polycam has got some great, you know, you can capture something. So there's so much more content out there that is actually catered around construction technology. I also just don't think people have realized just how awesome it is and the technology that's actually out there, like, you know, my mobile iPhone has really blind eye on it. And I can scan the, you know, a small floor in minutes or whatnot, but I get tons of it. And it knows a day but I can then use it as content. Super easy. And it's fitting the bill about reality capture. Defend it helps your, I don't want to say numbers, but like does it help you with your, with their sales? Yeah, yeah. So I think I'm going to say last and the first one, previous forecast, there is a direct correlation with me posting more and engaging in content with a getting more people to connect with me. It's easy. I see a clear correlation of that. But also then getting opportunities because I get people messaging me. So where I want to talk to you. Yeah, I like what you're doing with a dispersed. I like what you're just doing in general construction, so I'd have a chat with you. Brilliant, okay. And even like your podcast, people follow them. So again, yeah, I said, I'm a competitive person. If I'm seeing that this works, I'm going to do it. But I also know, at least I think I'm helping out others. If I'm sharing my knowledge of like, here's the latest bit of technology from your iPhone that you can do. And if it can help someone out there, brilliant. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it comes down to more of an age of where we people are, I see, are more attracted to you to come to you when you have like a strong digital presence. I really get to know you. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, it breaks down barriers as well. It's like the outreach is not so cold. Like they already know this kind of noise. And I was going to say something else, but it's lost me. Oh, yeah. The other point was like the importance of being active and creating content industries. What I find very odd is you could have like a person who is head of marketing at company, but they don't do any content related stuff. And my being stupid or is this or should they be or is that traditional avenues? Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think you have to have a good understanding of like, of LinkedIn, especially in construction because most of us are on here, but also just all social media platforms. And that's just the platform that is today. It's going to change. It'll be something else. Apple's vision of special computing. That's a hassle. But I think they should, I think you should be having an active role in like trying, especially if you're trying to hit numbers. If you're in marketing and you are in construction tape or you should be looking like, you want your brand, the people are going to land on your page and go, who's this person? Because they're going to somehow find you. And if they want to talk to someone at marketing, it's an easy avenue for people to understand a little bit more about the company that you're working for and a little bit more about yourself. And it's, you know, I think I said before, it's in the first podcast was LinkedIn or your website is just a 24/7 interview. And you can go on right now and find out who I am. What do I do to spurs? They can look at my content, they can see the Tiki articles on my featured page. What I want them to look at. These are the things I find interesting. And then before they even give me a call, they go, right, I know this guy will. They'll want to talk to him. Have you ever had it where someone's like bought something up where they are saying, I saw that thing you posted and you're like, I have no idea. Like, it's like, I said, oh, yeah, cool. Can I say that? Yeah, actually, someone reached out to me and he literally said, we're like, you're crazy. Brilliant. I want to talk to you. When I chat to him, he explained, and I was like, I think I posted something about those that hold chat GPC with impact, you know, that slide about the chat GPC build this building. And I went over and I wasn't mind. I credit to my colleagues Tom and Finley, who helped create that great meme. But just like how actually, there is technology out there that can actually assist you building something. But he, you know, he's sponsored it. So it took me a moment and no doubt as time goes on, it's going to be like, it's the same as someone's going to message me saying, I think you were completely wrong. Like, wrong. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think it's, I think personally, obviously bias in what we do here, but some of the top people, you know, like content is the fourth lever in terms of like the full, the four types of leverage being capital, labor code, now audience. So it's hard to be audience. It's it's attention. I think it's not necessarily what I think is attention. I'd argue to say that that's what essentially we're in. We're in an attention, but that's what I was in before or any salesperson before any social media. You're trying to grab the attention of your buyer. Yeah. It's always been that because you've got to, it's the awareness. You've got to start at the top of the funnel. We've got to make sure who they are, where are the people, and then you've got to slowly build them on the funnel. And then you know, just burst or you know, you've got to make sure that people are aware. And you know, I spend sometimes meetings like, well, who's to spits? Okay. Right. Yeah. I also know that it's going to take me a few times to actually explain this because you've never heard of anything like this before. You did not think that this capabilities are out there. And I have got better understanding that actually just takes time. It takes time for me as a salesperson or anyone to like, I've got to go over this a few times because it's going to take you a while to actually understand like, we have some clients that think that when I guys and girls go out and take the actual 360 photos that they are walking around physically and writing some say, no, that's not. And we've had a few people that have done that. So it's like, if they're asking that question, then a few of them are my clients are. So A, internally, we need to get better at making that aware. But at the same time, I need to be, I am aware now. I'm like, right, this is going to take a few times for me to have a conversation with you about what we do. And imagine if, especially if your platform is very different and very change, there is a lot of like, is so there was a big change. We're not changing the wrong word, but like, there's so much capability of this platform that just sounds like, really, you can do all of that. Yes. Then you're really going to have to have another one out there. That's actually probably going back to another early point that Martin said about like going through a website. I can remember this podcast, but the last podcast about like website construction tech companies, like sometimes the website is just so complicated. It's like, well, is it actually complicated? Or is it actually you as a person just having quite grasped the capabilities? I'm going on a whole tangent. This is going to need some of the thought. Yeah. I don't know, no problem. We can start there. What, what, what content do you feel works best? Photos really do help out videos. I love posting photos of buildings and donuts, if you can find mine. But mainly because of, you know, I've taken a few photos recently of beautiful facades that have been in London. So there's the, the Rosewood Country Woods with more flexor working on and they've kept the facade. And Langueroke was also doing a whitely hotel. Sorry, it'll be the bexinterior who we're working with on that. And the facade is beautiful. Yeah. And they've kept it. And there's little things that, you know, they've kept that facade and then behind those really workout photos, videos as well. Also, one of my last posts I did was I actually went quite aggressive, but I was quite striking in terms of my wording that people just don't get it. We do not need BIM. And, you know, we're up from the ward and I got loads of impressions. Like a lot of people were looked at. Not maybe we were necessarily clicked on it. Yeah. And we were looking at that. And I know they're thinking, they're thinking like, okay, this is a hot topic here. Being a slightly controversial, I think it's a good one. Yeah. I think we need more of that in the industry. Yeah, being big and bold as well. Yeah. It works well as a collaboration. You know, if you know that there's a few that we're all trying to build something, having someone there to hit. Yeah. Like, yeah, on that point, is there any good content? Contents. Well, obviously. You're in March of 100%. And that wasn't a leading question. Yeah. Of course it wasn't. Okay. Excuse me. Yeah. Matt Graves and Colin Eacham, Eacham I think it is. Matt, especially some of his content, it's fantastic. Yeah, especially from a construction management point of view. I know he's like, he's got his mentoring podcast. And I think that's what I also think the industry needs more of this. More people that are who have been in the industry and they're working construction to actually then pass that down onto the next people. There isn't enough of it. We're really bad in the industry of just doing lessons learned at the end of the construction project. Oh, it's terrible. It's good. I'm on hand. Talk about the problems. Have a conversation. Yeah. That's what I understand. You're also offering. I am. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you bringing that. Yeah. So one of the things after I spoke to someone from the careers college, you know, you say, lovely lady, good, babe. And she was saying that they're supporting you know, students who are high school in America. 16 and 17 and 18. And in terms of developing their skills. But I got me think is like, I want to also do something back. I've also had university graduates message me saying, we'll love to know a bit more about to spurs. I'm going to talk about BIM and I go, we don't need BIM. But let me talk to you about that. And then I've gone and chat to them. And I want to give that back more. So if you go into my profile, going to contact you, you can see my calendar, calendar, sorry. And you can allow it. I think it's like Mondays and Fridays after like five days, six. I'm doing this outside of my own time. Yeah. If anyone wants a quick 20 minute chat, I've got a dissertation that are working on. If they've got a kid that wants to go into construction technology, if you want to go into construction technology, because again, I've also had. And this is why I wanted to do something like this is I've had people come to me and go, how has the transition been going from engineering to construction? Okay, what was it? And one of the biggest questions they asked is, I think it's just nervousness. Like, you're so comfortable. Yeah. You know, so comfortable in your day to day job. And then suddenly you're going to change to a field which is new and fear of failure. Fear of failure. And it was something that crossed my mind before. But I think if anyone's listening to this, if you're in construction, the industry has an issue right out of shortage, massive, massive labor. We need more people. So I'm guarantee you good at your job and you get an offer at a construction technology company and it doesn't work out. I'm pretty confident that you're going to get another job. And so take that and that's how I summed up to myself. And that's when I came to, I was like, well, I've got kids, family, mortgage, et cetera. And there's a big jump going from really steady job. It's going to be absolutely fine. One day, a director, et cetera, all the way to take this big opportunity and try to actually really change the industry. I did it. And so, if anyone else is listening, if you want to talk about this, go into my page, DM me and we can have a chat. Yeah, I think without again, two philosophical, but one of the biggest regrets of people that were dying is the stuff that they did. They didn't do exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And not like I've been thinking about it. Yeah. And this whole, like this transition from me going from, because someone to the business development rep, I have learned so much. I've gone on a career learning, like Maddenham. I have read a number of books, a number of podcasts, a number of, you know, just trying to, like, how do I level up my skills? That's very fulfilling, right? Oh, huge. It's massive. I think primarily because I'm working on so many construction sites and the sales cycle, although it's long construction, is much quicker than when I build, and I'm designing some piles. I know that those works are going to be another year, and it's going to be like six months, and the building's going to take three or four years. So it's probably a bit more rewarding. Unfortunately, I've got a number of buildings across London that I can say that I've come in aim on, but it's not a name a little bit. But yeah, so it's definitely fulfilling. You know, see where it goes, but it's also opened up to me, so opportunities like this. Absolutely. So how do you manage busy day-to-day job of sales with all your extra curricular activities? Yeah. Well, do you have any productivity hacks? Yeah. The first one is to stop saying the word busy. I don't use the word busy. I don't, I do sometimes, yes. But I really try to, I think it has negative connotations. When actually, if you're busy, let's say, that means that you've actually got something going on and you're actually doing something and you're pushing through things. And for you to then see, is this busyness? Is it actually adding to my day? Is it adding to my sales cycle? Or adding to my productivity? Or is it not? So, but yeah, I'm definitely, my calendar is a pact. I take priority over clients and opportunities, and then I also, you know, existing clients are incredibly important to me. I really do try to support them where I can. If not, I try to get my team members to help support them and react as quick as we can. But then also like new opportunities, because ultimately I've got a revenue, I've got a bookings, et cetera, and numbers. So it's just, I try to keep on top of that. And yeah, if you sell, it's not a 9 to 5, definitely not. Yeah, it's definitely not a 9 to 5. But I like that. He's right now. Okay. So we have five minutes left. And earlier, I, Shiton G, chat GPT. But before we came here, I sent Ed Prompt and said, you are a podcast host in the world of construction tech. Give me some off topic questions. Oh, excellent. So let's see. Yes, for it. Pick a number between one and 15. What's something about you that people would be surprised to know? Two things. One. I am half American, half British. I'm a part of America. I was born in Texas, San Antonio. Oh, how nice. Yeah. I only live there for a few years. My dad served in the American Air Force. And he was a veteran. And, but yeah, around about where I end up in Britain. But so how did you get here? Yeah. Yeah. One of the jets. I see 50. My dad's American when I was British. So I've lived in Texas five. And the other one is also I used to play baseball for a great, so that's probably my claim to play in terms of sports. All right. Let's go for another one. Not number seven. Ten. How do you define success in your personal life and outside, so in your personal life, outside of your professional achievements? Outside of work. I think I'm pretty successful already. I've got a gorgeous wife. It loves me. And I've got two amazing boys. They're still young. Seven and five. Yeah. I'd say right now they're very six. I'm a very successful in terms of, you know, they're doing well at school. They're doing well. They're character of them. Fantastic. Too worried about grades will not bother them. Pretty bright. And it gets up from their month. But I mean, it's more about the character. And then that goal, that success will continue to change as I go older. As I go older, you know, that's one element of measurement of success that I'd probably say is like family. And then also just start my personal health as well, you know, keeping on top of that. Because ultimately, if I don't take care of myself, that's going to have at least I think, going to have a negative impact on my family, friends. Everything. And then my community. I think your health is your foundation for the whole. It is. Yeah, I don't think people put themselves actually at, you know, you are at the top of the pyramid. But that's a whole phase of conversation. Yeah. Okay. Number five. Let's go for one more. Number five. Number five. Because that's seven and five my boys said. I feel like. Okay. What's the habit or routine you've adopted in your personal life that you believe has contributed to your professional success? Can you don't have the touch on that? Yeah. Continuing learning. I am addicted to YouTube audiobooks reading and actually if I just start again being being curious fundamental. Okay, let's leave it at that. Well, it's been a pleasure. Yeah, thank you for sharing a bit more. Yeah, we talked a little bit more about the salesy side of being and also like a day to day and in what you do and the importance of content and community. Do you have any final leave words? Well, thank you so much for having this opportunity or if anyone do want to reach out to me and just to go up construction, do you take engineering or anything feel free to miss me on LinkedIn? We'll send it. But yeah, thanks so much and also just a big big shout out to you and Martin, like I think what you guys are doing is fantastic. You know, you're building up a wealth of knowledge that people can absorb in their own time and I think over time you a lot of people are really in benefit from this. Appreciate it. Thanks. And if anyone wants to debate will see anything construction tech related and we can go as heat it as you'd like then. Yeah, well, I think I think I think you need debate. Yeah, and yeah, I'll be up for having a conversation with anyone. So there's something. All right, let's see what they're there. Thanks. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the bricks and bytes podcast. If you are enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. We really appreciate it and we'll catch you in the next episode.