(upbeat music) - You know, back when I started sharing my debt free journey, I didn't know anyone personally that was sharing how much debt they had, right? They're so much shame and guilt associated with debt. And I decided to share it, you know, I'm going to be very public forum. You don't have to, right? You don't have to share it on a public forum, but maybe you tell your partner, maybe you tell your best friend and just share it with someone. Because then I think that you'll have that little accountability through that relationship that'll also help keep you going on the journey. - Team Minus 10 seconds. - Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast with your host, Jamila Sufran, as a muddy expert who rocks her top. She helps braid juniors like you, get out of debt, save, invest, and build real well. Join her on the Journey to Launch to Financial Freedom. - Five, I four, three, two, one. - Hey, hey, hey, juniors. It's Jamila. Welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited for you to be here with me. As I always am every single week, I am interviewing on today's podcast, Cindy Zuniga of Zero Base Budget. Who get this? She paid off $215,000 of debt in 48 months. Now Cindy is a lawyer, so I always find these stories so for me, inspiring, hence why I have her on the podcast. But sometimes I understand why people can look at that and be like, well, she's a lawyer. She's earning so much money, she should be able to pay off a million dollars in a day. Like I get it, I get it sometimes, the suspicion about it all, but I want you to hear, regardless if you are a lawyer or not, someone who's earning six figures or not, I want you to hear Cindy's story because what I love about what Cindy has to say is really talking about where she came from and why she picked law and elevating herself from her background as a Latina, trying to really do something different and really make it in this world. And so I'm really inspired and excited to have her come on the show, share her story about how she paid off the debt and hope that you can pull some information from this. Something from this story, whether you have a similar lifestyle or not, you could find something that resonates with you with Cindy. So we're gonna talk all about what she did to pay off that debt and the mindset and all that she's up to now. If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journeytolange.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG, junior or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes, still listen to stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more. You can go to journeytolange.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, Jertiers. You're very excited to bring you this conversation with Cindy Zunika of Zero Based Budget. Cindy, welcome to the podcast. - Thank you, Jamila. - Okay, so one of the things that I love about your story, not only is it that you paid off like a tremendous amount of debt in a short amount of time, but you are helping people do the same and you're sharing your soul like real with the behind the scenes of your journey. So just to bring everyone up to speed in case you don't know who Cindy is, Cindy is behind Zero Based Budget and she paid off $215,000 of debt in 48 months and you live in New York City. Right? So I'm really excited to learn really how you did it, why you did it, right? And just like you just share all the behind the scenes 'cause I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who maybe have that much debt, maybe not as much, and want to learn from you. So can you first just share a little bit about how you got into that debt in the first place? - Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, as you mentioned, I graduated with over $215,000 of debt. Most of it, about 90% was student loans and about 10% was credit card debt. And just so that I'm clear, the 215,000 was the total amount. So it was, including the interest that accumulated all those years as well. But yeah, as far as the specifics are concerned, I attended Sony Brook University here in New York and I was fortunate enough to receive a full tuition and room and board scholarship, which was really amazing. But I took a fifth year, I decided to take a fifth year in undergrad. And that's when I took out about a $10,000 loan. That's kind of where my loan story starts. And so after I took out that, I went straight to law school. And that's where I took out the massive amount of debt that you see there. And I took out $150,000 for law school. And I took it, you know, law school is three years, $50,000 each year is essentially what I took out. And when you add all of that up, plus about 10, maybe $12,000 of credit card debt and all the interest that accumulated. So if you're doing the math, yes, I had a, I accumulated about $40,000 of interest total, that's how we get to the $215,000. Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I want to share a little bit more about your backstory because you also, you grew up in the Bronx. Yes, yes, yes, born and raised. Born and raised and your parents are immigrants, right? Right. So for you, I mean, I know when they say you go to like an in-state school and you said you got a right, a full ride for the undergrad portion of your degree, which is amazing. What makes you want to be a lawyer, right? Like did you understand the type of debt you'd be taking on or were you more looking at the income that lawyers make or maybe just the impact, like what would you drive in fact or force in wanting to become a lawyer? Yeah, so you know, actually funny enough, I decided to go to Sonya Brook University because I wanted to be a doctor. That was actually my initial plan. I wanted to go to med school. And so I was already aware of the amount of debt that I would have to take on to go to med school. I was already kind of mentally preparing myself for that. Long story short, I steered away from the medical field primarily because of my fear of just like hospitals and blood to be very honest with you. I don't know that I've ever really shared this. But I decided to become a lawyer because I actually became very involved in politics. So I interned for then Senator Hillary Clinton. And I was then transferred over to Senator Schumer's office when President Obama appointed her Secretary of State. And I just, I loved government. I loved politics. And I thought to myself, you know what? I want to run for office. And I want to have a law degree because I want to be able to really understand the policies that politicians put in place for our society. And so I decided I would go to law school because I wanted to be a US senator. That was my goal, really. And to be very honest with you, I wasn't really thinking about the money that lawyers make. I was thinking more of, OK, it's a good career. And I know that I will have high earning potential. But that wasn't the immediate goal of going to law school as a journalist to obtain a high-paying job. And so as you mentioned, I am the zwatter of immigrants. And I was raised in a very low income community in the Bronx. And I just knew that I wouldn't be able to go to mom and dad to fund my higher education, really. And so I had to start thinking about these really tough topics of student loans. And I wish I was much more educated than, you know, compared to how I am now on just general knowledge on all things student loans. But I just knew that it was kind of like a necessary evil, right? If I wanted to become a lawyer, I was going to have to take on a ton of debt. And I was willing to do that. And while I was in law school, actually, because a lot of people say, well, you don't work in government now, kind of like, what was that shift? While I was in law school, I really became exposed to other areas of the law that I could not have possibly been exposed to before. So, you know, I didn't know any lawyers, right? Like I didn't have lawyers in my family. I had two girlfriends who had just graduated law school. And so, you know, I knew them. But I didn't have any lawyers in my family. I didn't have any lawyers in my neighborhood. And so I became exposed to different areas of the law, including corporate law. And that's when I really started, you know, just diving into the private sector. And I decided that that's where I wanted to go to. I no longer wanted to, you know, be in government. I no longer had aspirations to run for office. I really now wanted to try my way into the private sector. And that's what I did. And, you know, surprising enough, the private sector-- well, surprising to me, just because I quite frankly just didn't know I wasn't aware. But the private sector does offer much more significant earning potential than the private sector.
public sector than government. And so, you know, that was definitely a plus because I graduated with a lot of a lot of student loan that. And so definitely me going to the private sector has helped with that. Yeah. So I have a lot of questions or things that came up as you were talking. And one of them was just like the importance of also like a lot of times when you are from immigrant families. So you don't know a lot of people maybe in the profession, like it's hard to figure out exactly like what you want to do. You kind of have this idea, the shell of an idea of what it's like. And then it's not until you actually start talking to people who are actually doing the job or that kind of work that you really get an idea. And I feel like so many young people or just, you know, anyone listening, that's even my age, you know, I'm in my 30s who went to school, didn't really understand like what the career was actually going to be like what the degree they got what it would mean for their full time employment. Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yes. Absolutely. Oh, like and so therefore there's like people here even listening that don't even are not even lawyers. I think the most like and fear reading thing for people is that like, okay, you got all this debt but then you release your income potential like you're earning potential like kind of matches the debt assuming that you went, you know, on the trajectory that you're on. But there's so many people who are listening that, no, don't have the earning potential of your kind of position but have almost sometimes as much debt because they didn't know any better or they weren't taught. And it's just super just like sad or infuriating for them because then it's like it puts them at such a disadvantage because they're hardly earning enough to pay their like suit of loans back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that, you know, I heard a few years back someone gave kind of like a general rule of thumb. And of course, I want to preface this by saying that everyone's situation is unique and I'm very, very mindful of that. But I think it's a good general blueprint for those that are thinking about taking on student loans, whether for undergrad or maybe for grad school. And it's not to take out more student loans than would be, you know, your first year salary, right, with that degree that you attained. So for example, if you're going to say law school, right, and you take out $120,000, what kind of jobs can you get that will pay you $120,000 a year, you know, when you graduate from law school or when you graduate from that physical therapy program or from PA school or from that, you know, master's social work program, whatever it may be, I think that that's a really important thing to be mindful of because yes, especially children of immigrants like were really pushed on the whole, you know, education, education, education at all costs, right? Right. What's really heartbreaking is when I hear stories from clients, from fellow audience members of zero-based budget that say, Cindy, I didn't know, right, or Cindy, I took out over $100,000 of student loan debt, but my earning potential out of school is really only, let's say, $50,000 a year with that degree, right? So I think it's something that a lot of people don't really like talking about because they think that they're going to either hurt someone's feelings or they're ashamed or guilt associated with it, but I do think we need to increase the conversation on earning potential of certain degrees, right? I think that's important for us to be able to talk about because then you really have people that they're set back in their financial goals because they're trying to pay off the student loan debt, which could seem impossible for some people, you know? So I think that's definitely something that I think we kind of need to increase the conversation on for sure, and yeah, I'm definitely glad you flagged that because I totally feel that. And then it's too fold, right? Because here's the thing now that we're having the conversation, there are people who are already in the situation, they have tons of debt. So the conversations like this going forward are more about what can you do about it now? Like that's the past is nothing you can do about what happened, but here's what you can do for future generations for your own kids, for maybe people in your family now go into college, you can educate them so that they are not burdened with this inherent like debt. And then for yourself, like what can you do to dig yourself out of this and make the best out of this situation? So we're going to talk a little bit about what you did because one of the things that I like about your stories, like you said, like you realized you were paying, you paid in one year, $24,000 towards your debt. And then you found out that 20,000 of it went to interest. So I want to first think, when did you get serious about paying it back? Because here's the other thing that happens for people, like you're in school and you're just like, oh, worry about that later. So when did you realize, wait a second, like I need to really get serious about this debt? What made you think in that way? When I saw that I had paid $20,000 to interest and only $4,000 to the principal. So yes, as as you mentioned, my first year of paying off my student loan debt, I was just basically paying the bill that I was sent. Just automatically, okay, I need to pay this. So my minimum payment was $2,000. And well, because I had such a high debt amount, and thankfully I was able to manage that payment, even though I realized that that's an extraordinarily high payment. But I was like, okay, I would just pay this off. They bill me. I had the electronics bill pay set up. And that's how it was the first year. All of 2016, I was paying $2,000 every month. At the end of the year, the company sent that, you know, the statement with the interest that you had paid for the year for your tax purposes. And I saw that I had indeed paid $24,000 to this company to know that the loan servicer. And only $4,000, once at the principal. So only $4,000 actually went to the debt that I had taken on. And $20,000 went to the interest. So I started crying because I was so furious. I thought to myself, wow, I've really been set up to fail. Like, I'm never going to get out of this, right? Even though I understand that as time progresses, the amount paid to interest will start to decrease, decrease, and the amount paid to principal will start to increase. But I didn't, first of all, I didn't understand why that happened, right? Like, why was I paying so much to the interest? Another thing is I looked at the interest rates, which I had never really looked at. And I had a lot of student loans that were around the 9% mark. And that's a huge number when we're talking six figures that, especially. And so I just, that's really when the fire lit within me, right? That no, no more. I need to really figure this out. I need to ensure that next year, I'm not looking at back and saying, like, oh, wow, there goes another, I don't know, $10,000, $15,000 to interest and only X amount to the principal. That's actually when I really, you know, decided to shift things. And I started reading every personal finance blog that you can think of. I started listening to some podcast, Jemila, that's when I came across your podcast. I came across so many content creators that were making personal finance approachable and just relatable. And that's how I started really digesting my information. So in January 2017, I decided to refinance my student loans. And refinancing is essentially taking out a new loan with a private lender. And so that private lender, which in my case was so far, paid off all of my student loans that. And I now have that new loan with so far. And so people asked, well, why did you do that? Well, it was because I had a significantly less interest rate that I was paying. I think my interest rate was about 4%. And I was able to also shrink the time period in which I was going to pay back my student loans because I said to myself, no, enough is enough. I'm going to get rid of these loans that I'm going to do it ASAP. And also just by the way, during 2016, I did decide to pay off my credit card debt to just because my credit card debt was, it just kept on increasing, right? Because the interest rate on credit cards is just egregious. I mean, we're talking like 2024, it's that interest. And so I remember thinking, no, no, I need to pay off this credit card debt and just get rid of it ASAP. And so I was able to get rid of the credit card debt in 2016. And so when I refinance my student loans, essentially, that's the only debt that I had left was my massive student loans. Yeah. Yeah. So I know some things that may be coming from people who are not lawyers or who would not have this potentially high income is well, maybe, okay, so you're able to pay off your credit card and now you refinance. And so now you're working on paying off this loan. But perhaps, you know, you were earning a gazillion dollars, you know, I'm just ridiculous here. But, yeah, yeah. Like there are a lot of people listening right now, but like, well, I don't, I don't, she was probably earning a lot. So everything is relative. Can you take us back to when you did this start getting intentional like the changes you had to make because, you know, one thing I've had a couple of lawyers on this show before who were a high earners and also had very high debt payments and they had to manage that. So I would love to just dig a little deeper there on what kind of sacrifice
if any, you started to have to make, like, to be able to do this, to pay off this debt? Yeah. So definitely, you know, one thing I definitely want to acknowledge is the financial privilege that I had to even be able to do this because that's something that I think you hear of these stories of, you know, XYZ person paid off six-figure debt in like two months, whatever it is, right? And yeah, there does come a financial privilege to be able to do that, right? Like, you have to have a certain amount of income coming in, whatever that may look like, maybe it's your main job, maybe it's side hustles, you know, I've met people that don't make six-figure salaries, but they take on certain side hustles and then they do cross that threshold, right? So whatever the case is, yes, I do want to acknowledge the financial privilege that I certainly had and currently have because of my position as a corporate lawyer here in New York City. With that said, I didn't live like a corporate lawyer in New York City, you know, I didn't have this kind of glam life that a lot of people think corporate lawyers have or anything like that. So I really focused on three areas. One was my housing expenses. I kept my living expenses pretty low, especially for New York City because I share the right costs with my partner. You know, we have a one-bedroom apartment. We don't live in the heart of Manhattan. We don't live right like in Midtown or in a gorgeous high rise building with elevator dormant. Like, we don't live that kind of lifestyle and we did that intentionally. We did that because we had certain financial goals to accomplish and so I knew I had to keep my living costs very low. That was one specific thing I did. Another thing is I was tempted right out of law school to perhaps purchase a car. I was like, oh, that would be great if I just purchased the car, you know, on the weekends, we can take a little weekend trips or do this or do that. And I decided against it because again, I live in New York City. I don't really need a car, our metro card and the subway system will do just fine. And so that saved me thousands and thousands of dollars by just eliminating the costs that come with a car, such as maybe a car no or a car lease, insurance repairs maintenance garage here in New York City. You would need that because where you're going to park your car, you know, it's not so easy as it may be in other areas. So I really saved on that. And then the last area was food. So that's something that I do talk a lot about on on zero based budget is how being really intentional with meal planning and meal prepping, that saved me like tens of thousands of dollars. And I just was really intentional that I'm not going to buy lunch, right? I'm going to take my lunch to work. I am not, you know, I'm not the kind of person that will in the morning buy like a bagel and a coffee on their way to work or no, I just take my breakfast from home or I'll eat breakfast at home. And same thing for lunch for dinner too. So my my boyfriend and I the reason why it again made it easier for me was because I had a partner that was on the same page as I was on. But we didn't, you know, we weren't going out to eat ever like during the week day or, you know, every weekend. We were being really intentional with how much money we spent on dining out because that is a huge sensation, especially living in the city, right? Especially living in the city with so many amazing restaurants. We just got really intentional about it. And we would probably go out to eat maybe like twice a month, you know, one time heat treat the other time I would treat. And that was really it, you know, we went for the experience and to spend time together not for convenience. And I think that that's what a lot of people do is that they'll order from seamless and grab hub and postmates and and all these food delivery services because it's convenient. But then they're spending easily like $20 per person because not only the food but the delivery charges, the tip, the tax, everything, you know, that adds up. And so I think that yeah, focusing on those three things specifically really, really brought down my expenses dramatically. And, you know, the difference between what I'm spending on my actual living expenses and what I was able to, you know, my actual income, that gap is basically what I sent to my debt, you know, and that's how I was able to really tackle it. Hey, Jerniers, if you are loving this podcast, then you will love my book, Your Journey to Financial Freedom, a step-by-step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. I wrote this book for you. This book is for you. If you want a clear and enjoyable path to having more money options and a rich life, this book is for you. If you hate your commute and the fact that you need to seek approval or permission from a boss, I hated that when I worked. This book is for you, if you weren't born into wealth, you didn't marry rich or win the lottery, but you still want freedom. If you're at a crossroads, a major decision or event is imminent. Maybe a career change, marriage, starting a family, pressures are reaching a tipping point and the discomfort and the desire for more can no longer be ignored. And this book is for you. If you find yourself zoned out at meetings, looking out the window or day dreaming about the life you truly want. So go pick up your journey to financialfreedom.com so I can show you how to map out how to get from where you are today to where you ultimately want to be and enjoy the journey while you're on the path. Head over to your journey to financialfreedom.com to see where you can pick the book up. It's available on Amazon bookshop.org, wants a noble your local bookstore everywhere. Go to your journey to financialfreedom.com to get the book now. Yeah, and I want to note that every the three the biggest expenses for most people are housing expenses and then transportation and food. So this kind of discipline while it is hard for a lot of people. It can be applied to anyone. Now of course, if you, depending on where you live, how far you live from your job, if you have kids, there are some things that are just going to be more expensive for you. But you know, I think what you're talking about here because I don't know, I always get this like I would have like the I feel like I have multiple voices in my head. I'm not crazy. But I also feel like I can imagine what certain people think when they listen to these conversations and there's some people who can learn from anyone regardless of income or privilege, like they're just like, what's the mindset? Because no one's going to have the exact same starting point, like or advantages. I always say if you're listening to this podcast, you have an advantage. You have access to internet or you're listening somehow. Like that's better than, you know, some of the places that your parents grew up and that my, you know, parents grew up. So it's the mindset piece. So maybe you're not earning six figures. Maybe you're on your way to doing that. Maybe you're already earning six figures and you're thinking, well, I can't do any of that because of this, this, this, this. But perhaps there is something that you know, you can do a little bit differently in your lifestyle and budget because paying off debt or reaching your financial goals is worth it to you. So I always just like challenge people to when they think that that's easy for someone to say or that doesn't relate to me. I can't do that is to just for Cindy, like it was very important to get rid of that debt. So she made that a priority. And I think you knew that maybe, you know, you're probably in your head knew how long it was going to take you. So you thought it was like, oh, this is short term sacrifice. Like it's not going to be forever. And I think some people like, when you're thinking about how to like make changes to your spending. So you can reach your short term goals. Then knowing that it's not forever and then knowing that you're staying committed and what you're doing it for is super helpful because I do think this is possible for a lot of people. It's just harder for them to do it mentally. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think two things is one, keep your why in mind, right? Like why do you want to get rid of your debt? Why do you want to become financially free? And so for me, you know, especially as the daughter of immigrants, my why is my family? You know, my why is my parents? You know, if my parents need something, I need to be able to financially provide for them. And I had that as that was my fuel, right? That was my fuel. My parents sacrificed so much for, you know, for my sisters and for me that I knew that this was the the barest minimum that I could do is potentially, you know, be that kind of that safety net, that person, that daughter that can give generously to them, you know, when they need it. Or even when they don't, right? Even just to say, thank you, mom and dad. I had my why in mind at all times, but also I had accountability. And I think that's really important. You know, I think a lot of people are so, you know, back when I started sharing my debt free journey, I didn't know anyone personally that was sharing how much debt they had, right? And I decided to share it, you know, I'm in a very public forum. You don't have to share it on a public forum, but maybe you tell your partner, maybe you tell your best friend or your sibling and just share it with someone because then I think that you'll have that little accountability through that relationship.
that'll also help keep you going on the journey. Yeah, and it's really important that accountability piece because one of the things I was going to ask you was, you know, it's great that you had a partner that you were on the same page. I wanted to kind of ask about that, but also just first when it's about your environment. So you're around other lawyers who are earning as much or more. And they're not on the same journey. So they're spending how did you withstand the temptations then? Because I imagine then for those few years of you not going out to eat like you're in the city. There's tons of that like restaurants and things to go for lunch. Did you tell them about what you were doing? Did anyone join you on the journey too? Or was it more just like, I'm just got to keep my head down and say no to everything? I'll kind of you withstand all that. Yeah. If you had. So, you know, my work colleagues, they all knew that I, you know, I bring my lunch from home. That wasn't thankfully, it wasn't really much of an issue because I started working and I was bringing my lunch and already. You know, so I kind of just had that as an habit, but maybe if that's even not a habit that you already have and you kind of want to implement it. I find that people are very receptive if you just are honest with them, right? So instead of saying, oh no, I can't go to lunch, right? Just say, oh, I actually bring my lunch from home, but if you want to meet me in the, you know, if you have like a cafeteria or something like that, you know, we can chat there, right? Like invite them to actually hang out with you. That's okay. Also, I did set out a day, so for me it was Fridays, where I did allow myself to go out and buy lunch. And I tried to also do, you know, do a twofold where I would go out with a coworker to kind of have that social interaction. But I think that you'd be surprised if you're just kind of like open and honest with people and telling them that, you know, you're kind of either on a, and this obviously if it's true to you, right? If you're on a health journey or a financial freedom kind of journey or whatever it is and you're making the small change, a lot of people will find that admirable, you know, and I found a lot of people actually asking me kind of like, oh, so, you know, what do you like to make or what do you usually prep and things like that? As far as the larger sensations generally, I think about the lifestyle and the, you know, going out for drinks and etc, etc. A big thing that I didn't spend money on was alcohol. And alcohol is extremely expensive. Oh my gosh, yes. You know, like very expensive. And also not the healthiest have it if we're being honest. So it's a good idea if you want to cut down on that, not just for your health, but also for your pockets too. But yeah, I mean, I had a trick that, you know, my coworkers and my colleagues, I know that I'm sure that if they're listening to this, they'll know it well. It's, I'll just order a salsa with cranberry juice. Right? And like totally fine. And nobody else cares really, right? Like all people actually care about is like your company and good conversation. If you're just confident in yourself in bringing your lunch to work, you know, from home and ordering maybe your self-service cranberry or maybe only sticking with one glass of wine as opposed to, you know, three or four, people are okay with that. Those are small changes that you can make to your kind of like everyday social life that really helps your pocket. But you're not compromising on the social interactions either. Yeah. And I'm thinking too, like especially in your type of work environment and anyone, like anyone here that's working in work environment, everyone has money, things going on in their life, especially like all the lawyers you're working with, I'm sure that they have a ton of debt too. So it just takes that one person, just be like, look, I'm trying to pay off this much debt, like this six figure debt. If you are also in debt, you're trying to like get debt free in four or five years, you can join me on this challenge. I just think it's interesting that so many people struggle or are wondering the same thing and kind of keep it to themselves when there's probably the person that sits right next to them. Can help them or can encourage them. But one person though needs to open up and like say, listen, is this happening to you or do you want to talk about this? Because like it's been helping me and it's funny because I have the Money Launch Club, some membership community that I have. And someone inside talked about how she just said to her co-workers, look, this is, I'm trying to do this. And they got them all interested. So now they do challenges together. So how much easier is it now that like there's people at your job who get it and you can be like, you know why you're not doing a certain thing and they're cheering you on and you rooting for each other. Exactly. Yeah. So when it came to like your partner now, because I think that's super important, if you are so lucky to also fall in love with someone who's a financially in line or have similar at least or not contradictory things that kind of mess up your progress or delay it, right? Because you can have different goals and different things that matter to you. But how did you guys like start talking about it? Did he have tons of debt? Like how did you manage to get on the same page? Was it a struggle or were you guys kind of even killed on the finances? Yeah. So on his end, he had some undergrad debt, but very little because he, you know, received a scholarship for his undergrad, which was really great. So he did have like a small loan, but it was nothing. It was nothing compared to mine. So that I remember at first kind of struggling with that. Honestly, just the massive gap between, you know, what he knew of as a debt reality versus what I was facing. And so I just sat him down and we talked about it, you know, just very honestly, I told him my exact numbers. And I told him kind of my thought process, especially he was actually there when I found out about the whole like $20,000 to interest and only $4,000 went to the principal. So he saw how incredibly upset I was just by the whole situation and how kind of defeated I was by it. And so I just sat him down and said, look, I want to do this and I want to do it in this time frame. Will you support me in that? You know, because certain things are going to have to be sacrificed, right? Like maybe we'll have to cut back in certain areas or be really disciplined about others. And so he was completely on board. He was ready for it and he was excited for me on this journey. You know, I don't think he saw the debt as really an issue the way that I did. Because I think for him, it was kind of like, yes, it's debt and you definitely want to pay it off. But at the end of the day, that debt afforded you the kind of career that you have now. Right. So it's kind of like, okay, whereas I had a much more aggressive perspective on it. And I think that just having that open communication with your partner is so incredibly important. You know, because especially if this is something really important to you, you know, I've had a lot of clients where they say, you know, either that they haven't shared their numbers with their partner. And by your numbers, I mean, all of your numbers really. I mean, like, how much you make generally what your expenses are, your debt amount. And I think it's just it's good communication, right? If you have intimacy in various different forms with your partner, then why not also have that kind of intimacy when it comes to your finances, right? And just being able to really share with that person, that area of your life. And it's good to be on the same page because he very much understood that we weren't going to live in that super fancy apartment, right? Like in theory, maybe we could afford it. But that's that wasn't a goal. And it really wasn't a goal for me, but I think because, you know, obviously he loves me and supports me, he wanted to be on the same pages I was on. And so we decided on, you know, another neighborhood and another kind of apartment and so on. So I think that just being really honest with your partner and not being scared of what they're going to think because I also have clients that the same ones that say that their partners don't know much about their finances is that they're embarrassed by it. And they're really nervous on what they're going to think of them. And I think that just having that communication is just so incredibly important. And if your partner is really not on board with your journey, then maybe introduce them to podcasts that you've been listening to or blog articles that you've been reading. You know, I remember sending a lot of things to a lot of articles to my boyfriend on people and they're kind of like debt freedom journeys and showing you two videos of people's stories and putting on podcasts. And that really also helped kind of get him on board with everything because he saw how excited I was about it all. So yeah, just communication truly really is the key. And I think too, like so one of the things that happens to is sometimes like starting with the financial conversation if the relationship itself is rocky and there's trust issues or a lot of baggage from other things that can create more problems, right? So a lot of people just want to jump straight to let's get our finances together when there's some more deep rooted foundational stuff that might need to be worked on first. And then the other thing is to like understand what your partners like into. So like if your partners into traveling or cars, you can send them maybe find more line stories that match with the kind of things that they like or I always like say like, you know, when it comes to like my husband, I always want to be able to maybe buy him a car when
right like the perfect world if I made enough money I'd love to be able like one of the Eels Christmas commercials would like you surprise the person with a car yeah yeah with a big like okay like that's a big dream but like I would be so excited to be able to do that because he's into like cars and we haven't been able to like really drive luxury cars and so I think about okay how can I like excite him like if we stay and commit on this journey make these up front sacrifices that could be a possibility you never know so getting him excited about the journey like making sure you understand what motivates them and you include that in the goals that you're setting for your family or what you're doing now one of the questions I do have is like investing so people who are in current debt like there's a lot of different schools of thought especially if you follow like the day Ramsey method where you pay off all like consumer debt first and you don't invest I believe in a more balanced approach of investing while paying off debt what did you do when you were aggressively paying off debt do you invest in your 401k or retirement plans at all or what was your philosophy yes I absolutely did so my again very general rule of thumb is pay off credit card that ASAP right because credit card is going to charge you 20 maybe 25 percent interest so definitely get rid of that first right but then I think that when you know especially for those that have lower interest debt like student loans for example I do think that you can take a more balanced approach and so while I was aggressively paying off my student loans I did have my for I do have my 401k that I started contributing to because it's not just for me it wasn't just a debt-free journey it's really a financial freedom journey that I'm on and so I didn't want to kind of silo my journey by just saying well I'm just going to focus on paying off debt and that's it and then I'll focus on investing I really want to do both and so I did so I started investing in my 401k which is offered through my employer and I actually also opens up a regular brokerage account with betterment and so I had my investment account that you know I'll share with all of you I started really small I started with only $50 a paycheck the reason why I started with that was because I just wanted to build the habit right so after about a year then I started increasing it's about $100 a paycheck and it's really great because it exposes you to this world of investing in a way that your 401k may not necessarily do because I think that well at least with me I'm a very I take a very passive approach to my 401k it's kind of just you know it's there and and I know I generally haven't understanding of what it's been invested in specifically but other than that it's really just like a kind of a set it I forget it type of deal but with my account with betterment for example which betterment by the way it's a robo advisor very similar to LVES and well front and I was able to put how aggressive I'd like to deal with investing and kind of what my goal was and what my gold dollar amount was and am I on track to meet that and so I think it's a great way to just get yourself exposed to investing and I'm really glad I did I mean the stock market has performed tremendously well since I started investing which has been great but I am mindful of the fact that the stock market is a roller coaster so I'm sure you know what goes up must come down kind of thing but hopefully not by two but we'll see right but the point is that I am a long-term investor I'm not planning on taking out my money from my investments anytime soon so I'm really glad that I did those two things I'm glad that I did both the 401k and a robo advisor because I think that it's started building the habits that when I did become debt-free in December of last year of 2019 it was really easy for me to make that shift right because a lot of people asked me like well Cindy what now right like what are you doing now that you're debt-free and honestly what I did was I shifted not all but most of the money that I was putting towards my debt to my investments and it was kind of a seamless transition because I had already built the habit right right and I think that's great because that was my next question for you because you now assuming you have like a lot of I would say quote quote extra but you know like money not going to debt now that you can choose where it goes so I know a lot now is going to invest in but are you now since you sacrifice maybe a couple of those years are not going out to eat and doing all that stuff are you doing more that now are you still more disciplined because it's just part of who you are now like what are you spending your money on what are you looking for to spending your money on and doing so the two main things for me are dining out and traveling so I have increased the amount of that I have budgeted for dining out and I've also increased the amount that I'm putting towards travel like I just say that every single month in a travel fund so that when the time comes I have enough money to you know book the fly or book the hotel and so I have been increasing that but to be very honest with you otherwise I've kept my expenses pretty much the same you know and it's because of the habits that I've built during my journey of just being really disciplined and mindful of where my money was going so I say that overall yes I definitely increased some of the categories in my budget right just to give me a little bit more wiggle room a little more flexibility the dining out one definitely was one of them but I'd say on a whole it's still very very modest just because good habits I think are hard to break and that's a that's a positive yeah yeah all right so for someone listening to this right now regardless of income but they just have debt and they're just like the fed up of it and they want to do something what's like the one thing after listening to this podcast they can go do that we'll start or help them get further along their journey aside from self-education right of continuing to listen to podcasts like yours which is where I attained a lot of my knowledge and blogs and YouTube videos and things like that it's to actually confront your debt like write everything out you know in a spreadsheet in a notebook whatever maybe write down all of your debt types credit card student loans car loan the amount that you owe the minimum payment and your interest rate and then figure out a plan of attack okay how am I going to pay this off am I going to use the snowball method or the avalanche method the snowball method is when you pay off your debts Wallace to largest just looking at the dollar amounts the avalanches when you pay highest interest rate to lowest interest rate whichever method you go with just pick one right because you just got to keep on going on the journey and then look at how much you have left over each month you know as far as like your budget is concerned right how much wiggle room that you have and really kind of look at your numbers I think is the number one thing you need to do you need to confront your debt but you also need to confront where is your money going you know so what I personally have clients do is I have them look back three months you know at their credit card statements and their debit card transactions and I have them physically take a highlighter and highlight every time you spend money on dining out every time you spend money on a gift on cabs you know whatever it may be write it out right and really confront your numbers and that's going to allow you to see the potential that you have to actually apply to your debt on the either snowball or avalanche method and then you just make a plan of attack and you just knock them out one by one and it might not be that you know you get to knock out your first credit card in in a month or two right it might take you a few months but that's okay at least now you know what you have to do because you actually confronted your numbers a lot of times we have kind of analysis paralysis right where we don't actually act because we've received all this information right so oh my gosh I received all the information from the blogs and the podcasts and the Instagram accounts and everything and now I'm going to go back to watching Netflix no right you have to act that's why I always wanted to leave people with action will like look okay now after you listen to this you know maybe you're driving so you got to like put in your calendar but really confront your numbers in general you need to know what's going in yes what's coming in what's going out and how much you owe at least first step and then you can start making a plan so and then you can start building your plan yeah exactly Cindy please please let everyone know where they can find you follow you and I will also link that in the show notes when this goes live yeah absolutely so on Instagram which is where I create most of my content I'm at zero based budget my website is zero-based budget.com and if you'd like to send me an email you can email me at
[email protected] I'd love to hear from you you can also DM me I do answer my DMs So feel free to send me a message on Instagram if you have a question, whatever.
maybe. Yeah and you know be pretty cool since your on Instagram a lot. If you're listening to this and you are also an Instagram follow Cindy, tag her and tag me or tag you listening to this episode. I love to see that you guys are tuning in and what you learn maybe your biggest aha or what you're gonna do. Tell me like hashtag confront your numbers. Yeah sure that with us so we can find your numbers. I love it. Yeah. Okay Cindy this was amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your journey and your knowledge. Thank you Jamila for having me. I really hope you enjoyed that conversation with Cindy. I'm so happy that we were able to talk in this way. She was able to share her story a bit more and really like I said before in the beginning of this. I am someone who can get inspired by anyone and I keep saying that because sometimes I know that when I bring on these big kind of I paid off all this debt in this short amount of time. It can hit the little different for certain people you know and I get that not everyone has the same starting points not everyone has the same income the same potential for earnings at the moment. I get it trust me. I understand and the way I've been able to navigate this world and you know I can only obviously speak for myself but then also seeing other people who a bit on the show is that while everyone has different tools in their toolkit again different starting points all these different things that make us who we are that if we could pull from the things that we can and be inspired by right like things that we can't act on. I think that's what allows us to excel and to break the barriers that we aspire to break. So I hope that you got something from this episode whether you're a lawyer or not whether you maybe are at the point where you're earning six figures or not hope that you were able to pull something from this episode something from Cindy something even if it's inspiring for you to just go out there and get it and to do just a little bit better to pay off a little bit more and again I know that we are in the times where financially for a lot of people this is different you know who could have expected all this to be happening with our economy and the way things are in the world. So you have to do the best you can with the things you've got and one of the things that you got is your mind and your emotions and a lot of that is on the fritz right now because everything happening but I do believe that if you can center and ground into what is motivating you what's causing you to want a better life even through these times you will figure out a way even if it's just listening to things that inspire you that kind of you know you're taking notes on that okay maybe I can do something right right now but it's something I'm going to look into. So hope you enjoyed that conversation don't forget you can get the episodes show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch dot com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch dot com slash jumpstart. 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