033 How to write programs that satisfy client expectations AND really work

That's a wrong button. Happy New Year, everyone. This is our first episode of 2026 and it's almost a week into 2026. I feel like New Year's Eve was 10 minutes ago, so I don't know how that's going and I feel like this year's going to go super quickly. But I hope everyone's had a wonderful start in 2026 and thank you for joining us again for another year and another episode. Chris, how are you doing today? This year? I have flu, so I'm not doing tremendously well with Tysha, battle on monthly through the episode. We sick for New Year's? No, kind of just after I think. New Year's was New Year's Wednesday. I think you've been asking me. I have no idea. I don't know. It felt like this kind of came on Thursday and Friday, so it's definitely reached its peak at the moment. I'm definitely relying heavily on lemon tea and all of the associated kind of remedies that they stick in that. I hope you had some honey to it. I have been talking a lot about honey in my social media, so let's get you in the honey bandwagon. So, we are doing a part two today. So if you guys didn't listen to last week's episode, then what are you doing? Get on it. But we were talking about mistakes that people may be making as they get started in their gym journey in 2026. And we wanted to do a second follow-up episode specifically for coaches. So last week, we were talking about, hey, if you are getting into the gym, these mistakes will avoid. And this week, we want to talk about, if you're a coach and you're working with clients, whether that's with clients in person, and we're going to talk about that specifically, or if you're working with coaches online, then some of this stuff will apply to you as well, then how can you present workouts and routines and plans to your clients that are going to achieve the best results possible, but also provide the client with what it is that maybe they think it is that they want. Because there's no surprise that if people look online, then what they think that's going to be the best result is going to be stuff where they're doing, maybe I'll give you an example, actually, I was at the gym yesterday and I saw someone who was on the machine and they spent about maybe eight, 10 minutes on this one machine doing one side of an exercise, they're doing a lateral raise, one side to failure, immediately doing the other side to failure, immediately going back to the first side and the other than the other and did about 15 drop sets. And that's the type of thing that I think a lot of people see online and I think, hey, I need to do that kind of stuff. I need to not be able to walk after my session. I need to not be able to sit down tomorrow. I need to have a new novel exercise that no one's ever seen, every single session to get the results that I want. So how do we, as coaches, provide clients with what it is that they think they want, but is actually going to work and not just have them doing some kind of circus trick and not really getting anywhere. So we're going to talk a lot about, I guess, practical example, stuff that I do with my clients, stuff that Chris used to do with his clients and ways that we try to hack client expectations to get the results to be one of them to get. Now, before we do all of that, I want to talk about a plan that I guess was a response to a similar issue that we're going to be talking about. And this was in response to people who didn't have enough time. So if you have people who only have 25, 30 minutes a day, a few times a week, I guess, to work out, well, what can you do with those clients? Maybe a lot of people don't have 45, 60 minutes spend in the gym, and that does not mean that they can't get good results. So these are not new questions. These are not new issues. You know, the things that people are only facing today, these are issues that people have been facing since lifting existed. And what we're going to look at today is how did Bob Hoffman try to solve this issue? So Hoffman, I'm sure you guys have listened to our podcast before. We'll recognize the name. So Bob Hoffman was obviously behind York Barbell, which was incredibly influential and interestingly enough as we've been talking a little bit about some, I guess, post steroid-era plans in Golden Era. Well, York was where Annabolix was first sort of experimented with and actually utilized in American bodybuilding. Now, that was obviously a little bit late on. We're talking the sort of mid to late 50s and then early 60s. But York was at the forefront, I guess, of experimentation with Annabolix. Now Hoffman was, I've mentioned so far, like this sort of client expects this novel, something that I guess largely comes down to marketing. And there's no shock. I guess you hear that Hoffman was a bit of a marketer himself. So he did published a magazine, The Strength and Health, I think it was cool. I forget now. Strength and Health, I think. So he was influential, I guess, in shaping the narrative around bodybuilding and kind of competing a lot with White Oedars magazine. That was, I guess, also very marketing-based. Now where they had a lot of conflict and this comes out even in the plan we're going to talk about today is Hoffman was very biased towards weightlifting. So obviously he worked with the American Weightlifting team. He actually helped fund some of that work and worked very closely with people like John Grimick and some significant weightlifters at the time. And he was largely pushing for bodybuilding to go more down that sort of weightlifting performance side. And then we don't know, I guess we're pushing bodybuilding a little bit more towards there. I don't want to say performative, but that's sort of more almost like pageant side of things rather than weightlifting focused. So what we do see a lot with Hoffman's plans is especially from an excise selection, stuff that looks a little bit more weightlifting in nature. So we will see that even in this plan, which is a, I guess, a condensed plan for people who don't have a lot of time. So the plan was six exercises. Now that might actually sound like a fair bit to some people because obviously there's a trend for people to do fewer exercises and many sets today. But as was obviously very common at this point in time, there were only doing single sets. So six exercises, one set of each. So only six sets in the entire workout. And this was a full body workout. And as was fairly standard, it was designed to be done at three times per week. So single sets and we were doing eight to 12 repetitions for most of these exercises. He did have breathing squats in there. Now we have talked a little bit about breathing squats. We'll probably talk a little bit about them more in a future episode. But essentially the way this was working in this context is a set of about 20, sometimes a little bit higher, about 20 repetitions. And typically what one would do is I would pick a heavier loads or something like the 10 to 12 repetition max and they would do one repetition at a time and take a deep breath or couple of deep breaths between each repetition until they get that sort of 20-ish repetitions out. I think Hoffman here actually recommended 15 to 25 repetitions, but generally 20 was in normal. So aside from that, everything else was done for a set of eight to 12. So we begin with a clean and press. Again, a bit more of a weight lifting type exercise. For a single set of eight to 12, then we do our breathing squat for that sort of 15 to 25 repetitions. Now they did typically do pullovers after that. One set of light pullovers, the idea was to expand the rib cage. We've talked about that a few times and he did mention you can do this after your squats. If you wanted, he wasn't so dogmatic about it. Then go into a high pull, they call it a high pull to the chin. Now we would call that an upright row, but if you look at a lot of these old magazines of books, they're going to call it high pull. So barbell, upright row, that single set of eight to 12, and then a bent over barbell row for that single set and then dumbbell alternating overhead press. Now we actually had a plan, I think maybe last week or at least in the last few weeks that used this exercise. I'm at a comment that it was a fairly common exercise, but we hadn't seen it too many times. Well here we have it again, alternating overhead press and then concluded the workout with seated dumbbell curls. Now I'd love to hear what you think, because I, looking at this, I personally think there's a couple of things here that I would do almost exactly the same. And then there's a few things here that I think are done. I don't want to say poorly, but I think could use low work. So what do you think when you see this? So I think that it's fairly clear that he's creating a workout that is designed to be done with a barbell and a couple of dumbbells. Yes. So he's got a barbell on the floor that he cleans and then presses overhead. And then he's got a breathing squat that he's then doing. Now he's got to get that bar onto his back and I'm assuming he's not got a squat rack, but maybe he does. I mean, I don't know, but ultimately it's the same barbell. And then he goes into a high pull again. He's got a barbell and he's doing a high pull with that barbell because that's, I mean, I know we tend to use an easy bar for these type of exercises, upright rows or even maybe cables or something, but they would typically do that with a barbell. And then he goes into a barbell bent over row. So again, he's using a barbell. So really until he gets to the last two exercises, he's literally using the same barbell. The whole one is. Yeah. So it makes a lot of sense. He's kind of, and I've got the equipment that he's going to use and he just kind of hangs onto it and he can do pretty much everything from a platform. I mean, again, depending on how, I mean, I don't know how they would move the bar onto the back for the breathing squat, but there it is. And then again, if you're thinking, you know, this is in a magazine for the general public, it's called, if you're the working man, you know, these are probably not people who are squatting very heavy loads for 20 repetitions. You know, it's probably not going to be an unrealistic load to kind of what was the Stein Bogg squat the way they use to sort of hinge it up. It's probably not going to be excessively happy to do that with. Yeah. I mean, I'm just kind of trying to imagine the context in which this workout has been done. So it very much feels like he's solving a problem regarding, you know, the time constraints, the equipment constraints, the space constraints, and he's just trying to help people be able to get in, grab one piece of kit and do everything and then get out again. And so it fits the kind of model of what he's setting out to do, which is provide a 30 minute workout that's doing as much as he possibly can in at least amount of time. Obviously in terms of rep ranges, I mean we've talked before about how using sort of moderately heavy or moderate loads, 8, 12 is pretty much exactly a moderate. I mean, moderately heavy would kind of be a bit heavy in that and you know light end of moderate, we're lightened that. So moderate is literally a moderate load. It doesn't require a ton of warmup to do that. So really nice sort of quick way of barreling through the workout. In terms of exercise selection, I mean obviously we've got that Olympic weight lifting bias there. I'm not a fan of using things like cleans and the high pulls in the traditional sense for body building because the bar is generally moving too quickly. You know, so in terms of. Just to ask you there, you mentioned the high pull and the bar moving quickly. Yeah, so when I see the words high pull, that from me is basically from the ground. So my understanding of how this was done would be having the weight at waist height. So it's from the hang. Yes. Just hang high pull then. Yes, I believe so. Right. Okay. Now those exercises typically involve quite a lot of momentum still. The classic Olympic weight lifting high pull basically is literally a clean but without the catch. Yes. So you start with the bar on the floor and you just put it all the way up and then you just take all the way down. It's actually a really nice power movement if we kind of want to program power movements. I'm not a fan of them, but if somebody does want to program power movements for athletic purposes, high pull, classic Olympic weight lifting high pull is brilliant because it actually takes all the technical aspects most of the technical aspects out of the clean by not needing a catch. So both people are like, oh yeah, we're going to do power cleans. I'm like honestly, high pull is going to get you a lot more benefit with less kind of, you know, flapping around trying to catch an elbow, you know, getting in the way and shoulder mobility and all that kind of nonsense. But yeah, so, but if this is genuinely an upright row, then essentially, you know, classically, it probably doesn't have, sorry, classically it would have, but in the context of this, maybe it doesn't have that speed element. So yeah, well, when I see these exercises in magazines and stuff back then, typically the way it's all then being done would be with quite heavy loads compared to an upright row from the hang position, but using even like a stool. It does have some momentum. Okay, so it's kind of like a hybrid between the classic Olympic weight lifting high pull. Yes, and often actually coming out in front of them instead of directly up. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so it's kind of suffering the same issue that I'm I'm raising anyway, just less so. Yeah, so there's to be some hypertrophy benefit to it, but it'll be a little bit more momentum. Yeah, definitely. So not as bad as a classic high pull, but definitely not as good as an upright row in the bodybuilding sense. So in terms of exercise selection, yeah, I'm not finding out the clean, I'm not finding a high pull or hang high pull and high pull just for the reasons that they're not really hypertrophy exercises. In terms of the way that the rest of the exercises fit, obviously we've got two presses, we've got a barbell press and a dumbbell press both overhead. Yeah. Now, it might be a little bit of a difference there in terms of the plane in emotion. There might be a little bit more frontal with a barbell, a little bit more sagittal with the dumbbell because we talked before about maybe sometimes the overhead press with dumbbell is a little bit more sagittal plane. Maybe that's the case here in which case that would be pretty good. It would be a nice bit of, you know, kind of cross over, but then again, we've got the high pull. If it is functioning as hypertrophy exercise, is another lateral delto exercise. Really. So you kind of got quite a lot of del in the sense you've got the clean and press doing probably maybe scapular plane, maybe frontal plane in the sense that it's giving you both anterior and middle or maybe you get more anterior, maybe more middle, I don't know. I mean, it's until I see somebody doing it. It's hard to know which is. And then again, alternating overhead press, probably more so anterior, but then again, I'll break more middle. So there's a very dealt focused kind of programming that sense. Obviously, we know what the squat does. That's pretty straightforward. Bent over row. I'm not a fan of because it tends to be two, kind of transverse planes. We don't get a lot of lat involved and it's quite unstable and moves you around a lot. And then of course, curls do what they do. So yeah, it's not horrible, but there's so much you could actually do better. So what I'm interested in then and you sort of bypass the fact that he was doing single sets. And obviously from a time efficiency standpoint, single sets would be phenomenal. And you obviously made that point at eight to 12, you know, reducing perhaps nephers many warm upsets. So this is, I think this is a very efficient plan. But if we look at the exercise selection there, if someone's goal were to say he was speaking to people who just had access to a barbell and maybe a set of dumbbells, how would you adjust this exercise order or selection to bet and meet that need or full body development with that limited equipment? So I think things change quite a lot if you've got a bench and if you've got a pull up bar, I mean, those two pieces of equipment change things a lot. I mean, pull up bar really is one of the things that really does transform our ability. If you haven't got a pull up bar, then a bench to be able to do dumbbell rows is really, really cool. So if there's a bench and you can do a dumbbell row or if there's a pull up bar and you can do a part, then you straight away, you've got the ability to do sagittal plane at least pulling, which gets you a lot better result than doing the transverse plane pulling that you get with a barbell row. I mean, you can argue whether it's possible to do kind of more sagittal plane pulling with a barbell. I'm not convinced, but you know, you can kind of argue that point. But ultimately, it's still much more unstable than using a dumbbells or using a pull up bar. So I think that will be the first thing that I would ask is like, do we have that option to do this? If we don't have the option to do either of those, then things are definitely much more difficult. And maybe you even have to stick with the barbell row. I don't know. I mean, obviously, he's got the dumbbells there. Like in my, I've got a group which is, I call busy to the future and it is essentially this idea of how you've only got half an hour, 40 minutes, and maybe twice a week, how well would I do. And for me looking at this, it's not too dissimilar to some of the stuff I do, but I would certainly be turning that bend over a barbell row into a bend over one arm dumbbell row. And even if you don't have an adjustable bench or anything like that, all you need is something where you can stabilize yourself and then you're good to go. Exactly. So that's what I'm saying. It's like how limited is this equipment? Is it literally, I mean, are we talking about, you know, truly zen level of a bar room here? I mean, you literally just got a platform and a barbell and two double. Or are we actually saying, yeah, maybe there's a box or there's a bench or there's a seat or there's something you can actually use to create support. And then you can do a single arm dumbbell row and then okay, that's suddenly a lot better situation for the lab development. But honestly, the single thing that I would be doing here to make this transform this workout into something much, much better is to use deadlift variations. So I actually thought you were going to say, get rid of one of the shoulder exercises and turn it into maybe a chest exercise. So I'm actually pretty chill about that. I think, you know, obviously we're looking at this in the context of a time when chest development wasn't so, you know, exciting for them. They were much more interested in the shoulders of development. And honestly, from my personal perspective, I prefer that as that to as well. But I think the deadlift variation is the thing that would really make it work because you could do a stiff like deadlift. And it's really easy for you to not going to need that much load anyway. No, like it's going to match what you're using with the squat. Yeah. So you could absolutely stiff leg, you know, instead of doing that to clean and press at the beginning, you could do a stiff leg. And, you know, you could just do the dumbbell over head presses instead. So you could actually lose the clean and press entirely and replace it with a deadlift variation. You know, and that would give you some back stimulus as well. It's, you know, kind of from a working man's perspective with limited equipment. It's a really nice thing to just get you a long way quite quickly. And then if you do want more chest, you can lose a high pull to chin and you can either turn that into even a floor press if you don't have a bench or you've got the dumbbells there, you can do dumbbell flies. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously if we're losing too much, pressing them, try some, so I'm going to suffer a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Because that would be such an easy adjustment to make. So look, that's not a lot there. We're suggesting ultimately like what two changes to a couple of exercises and the sets and the reps we're happy enough with. That's that's pretty solid. So the issue that Bob Hoffman was facing here was ultimately an issue around time and accessibility to equipment. Now the issues people are going to face today probably not as much going to be accessibility to equipment. Time might still be an issue, especially for coaches who are working with clients in a PT setting. They may be only half an hour, maybe 45 minutes. But an issue that they're going to be facing or people will be facing today that Hoffman wasn't facing back then is going to be expectation over what a session looks like. So let's maybe transition down that pathway. Where should we even start? So when I was analysing this as an idea, I thought there were two main categories of problem that most coaches are going to face with their clients at any time of year, but especially now when there's a lot of new clients coming in who are interested in working with a personal trainer or a coach for the first time and maybe their experience or their expectations are based on what they see on social media, which of course as we all know is largely nonsense. Unfortunately, I mean that's just the way it is. So I think there's two things on novelty and time. So we've just spent a little bit of time discussing how time constraints were being addressed in the 90s by Hoffman's routines and other routines I imagine as well. We're looking at small numbers of exercises, one set per exercise, and and some clever arrangements of equipment so that you could literally use the same piece of equipment pretty much the whole way through. So you can already see people addressing that concern back then, and we'll talk about a few things that you could do in a conventional gym these days to address the same kind of problem. But I think the novelty one is the bit that social media has probably done the job on, which is where that a lot of people are going to come to a personal trainer and expect, with some incredibly complicated, periodized routine with changing exercises every tingle session and all kinds of bells and whistles and fiddley bits going on, to make it look like it's just to find the price of admission. Whereas we know that a really solid, well-designed intelligent program actually doesn't change very much from session to session, or maybe rotates between A and B sessions. And ultimately needs that consistency in order to get high levels of coordination to the point where you can get high levels of recruitment. And you can start seeing progress of overload happening over a long period of time to be, you know, to be sure that the program is actually working. So we're actually facing a very interesting problem here whereas we've got two things to worry about, not just one, we're not just worrying about time, we're actually worrying about the presentation of novelty and time. And the problem with the novelty aspect is that it's literally orthogonal, or actually not orthogonal, it's actually 180 degrees to what we're trying to do. We're actually trying to avoid novelty at the same time as pretending to have novelty. If we want to sell, you know, kind of, to the expectations of the client. I mean, some people will go, well, no, no, no, no, no, you should spend time educating the client to the point where they understand that what they've been expecting is wrong and that they should expect something else. And unlike my friend, they will just go and buy from somebody else if you try and do that. 'Cause that's just how people work. - Yeah, yeah, I think there's a couple of things to note there. So this is an issue that may comment about this in the past that I face for a long time when I started doing more, like for example, let's say AA, AA programming. So full body repeating workouts. And it's a conversation has shifted a little bit now where people are now happy. Some people are happy to, you know, repeat workouts to do the same exercises multiple times a week. But I would say that's a relatively new phenomenon in sort of this more recent history and for a long time, client will not happy to do that. I'm in a lucky position now where people are coming to me, have seen me talking about that for long enough that now if I don't give them repeating exercises, they actually have the opposite issue and be like, well, am I doing this exercise once a week? Even if they might actually be a rationale behind it. But to your points, if we're not giving clients what they think that they should be getting, if you're, it depends on who you are, if you're a coach working in a gym and a client walks in who doesn't know who you are and they just need a PT, then good luck actually educating them in your first session to get the opposite of what they think that they want. - Exactly. - To give a quick example here, momentum, build momentum. Like if we can get people seeing results early on, then that's going to be so motivating for them. And if we give people something that is unmotivating, like they're gonna hit a wall really quickly. And so I would, this is not a training thing, but when I was training people in person, one thing that I would often do with people, especially if they were asking me, like they're saying, hey, I wanna go keto, I wanna do this, whatever they're diet. I would use that to my advantage, but like great, okay, you've got a lot of body weight to lose. Let's go, very low carb. I know you're losing glycogen. I know you're gonna be two kilos lighter next week. They don't know why they're two kilos lighter, but they come back to me next week, and they're like, oh my God, I've never lost my life, I've lost two kilos. Let's like, let's f-ing go. We're gonna do whatever you say now. So I think part of this is psychology of, how do you get buy-in from that client to believe that this time is gonna be different, different to all the other times they didn't get any results. And how do we keep them motivated while we're getting those results? - So novelty. - Yeah. - There's no- - No-oh-hacks yet. - Yeah. - So ultimately, as you were just saying, most of the time we're going to be suggesting that a really solid program would actually be repeating the same workout pretty much every single time. But as we said before, an A, B split is totally doable. It doesn't suffer horribly from the atrophy problem. You can kind of make an A, B split work. You're just going to see slightly slower growth in some of the muscle fibres that you're not training every single time. So ultimately, if we think that novelty is going to be a requirement or a high priority on our clients list of expectations, then I would always start with an A, B split instead of an A, A, or A, A, A, A, three times a week. Now I'd always go with the A, B, A, B, A, B. Because at least that is introducing completely different workouts sequentially. So they're never coming back in the gym and doing exactly the same things they did the previous session. They're always doing something different. Now, of course, that quickly becomes apparent and you kind of lose the novelty value relatively quickly on that. But at least it isn't kind of pushing it into the forefront of the clients perceptions every single time they go into the gym. Oh, I did this last time. I did this last time. I did this last time because they didn't. They actually did something different. So I think A, B is a lifesaver to start with in this situation so much more in line with expectations and isn't actually horrible when it comes. As long as the exercise I select carefully, it's not actually horrible from a long term hypertrophy point of view at all. Yeah, you're not losing a lot, exactly. And what I would also suggest if one does go down that path is a lot of people are seeing their coach or their PT once a week. If they're seeing you once a week, there is a little bit of hesitancy for clients to see it coached to take them through the same workout that they did last time. And so A, B allows you to actually, you know, let's do a different workout this week than we did last week together. And then like you said, it's just going to buy you a little bit more long J, a little bit more time before you need to make some of these adjustments. And I think carrying on directly from that, and this is something that I know that you've been championing for a while, is that you can kind of physiologically get the same output from a workout by simply changing the implement that you're using for the exercise. So you can switch between a machine and a freeway version. You can switch between dumbbells and barbells or easy bars or whatever or cables. And broadly speaking, as long as your resistance profile is the same, your movement pattern is the same, then you're going to get more or less the same kind of output. Now, yes, at the highest level, we can argue about differences in recruitment and differences, stability and all that kind of thing. And that absolutely is true. And that is what we spend most of our time arguing really about the bodybuilding space where it's like, well, am I getting absolutely every single fire with that I can find? That's a bodybuilding question. We're talking about client work, you know, where that isn't such a big deal. But yeah, we can literally, you could have a scenario where you've got an A, B split, but you could have a, you know, kind of one and a two, where the A1A2 are essentially identical, but they use different pieces of equipment. So from the client's perspective, if they're not biomechanically minded and they're not going, oh, well, this is the same movement, they're actually going to, oh, wow, this is four separate workouts that I'm doing that are all totally different. There's actually only two separate workouts. You've just varied the pieces of equipment that you've done in those scenarios. Yeah. And the way that I would do that is I would just do, I would literally write out an A, A, A, full body. And then I would just change the apparatus and the equipment they're using and turn what is in fact an A, A, A into an ABC. And literally just take every single one of those exercises you're doing and think to yourself, what is the most similar exercise I can do? And most clients will, I had very few times where I clients come to me and say that they were feeling sick of doing the same thing. Like that was almost always enough novelty for those clients. I think that they're doing something completely different when it is almost exactly the same thing. Like even to the point, if you're doing one I used to do, I used to do pull ups with people, I would get them to still do pull ups in a sagittal plane. And one would be neutral grip pull up in sagittal plane, one would be supinated in sagittal plane. And that would be enough for people to think I'm doing something different here. Yeah. So I think that's definitely a really big kind of advantage if you have that sort of set of exercises already written out in your kind of templates, whereas like these are completely interchangeable. And you're like, as far as I'm concerned, for this population, those two exercises are completely interchangeable. And I think that's definitely a really big advantage. Because you can combine that with AB if you want to. I mean, you could sort of, you could spend that over two weeks really. Yeah, you could. You get a really, really kind of what looks like on paper to be very, very varying, but actually from a physiological point of view, okay, yes, we can argue about related differences and small differences in resistance profile or tiny differences in movement pan, but they're probably not relevant at the level of the client that we're talking about here. Because I'm not seeing it likely that a competitive bodybuilder is going to complain about having a variety. So it's like, it's just not that population. Yeah, the level of the type of client we're working with is not going to be the most important things. And another change that I would also make with clients is, oh, with workouts is unilateral versus bilateral. So I might, in fact, do the exact same exercise and one time per week we'll do it unilaterally, the other time we'll do it bilaterally and then maybe we'll do a different exercise on that third workout. So that falls under the same category, isn't it really? I mean, again, we're arguing about small differences in stability, small differences in recruitment because of total muscle mass. And again, would be relevant to the bodybuilding level probably isn't that worth worrying about at this level. And sometimes what you can do is, because these are ultimately compromises, right? What we're saying is we're starting with what we think is best. And then when meeting as close to what we think is best, which is kind of in the middle of what the client's wanting. And sometimes what we can do is pass. I could jump that compromise. And I love doing this, is looking at that compromise and thinking, how can we actually make this work to our advantage? And so in that example, they are gave the unilateral stuff. What we could do is say, hey, these are all full body sessions, but full body A, this is arms focused. And so we're gonna start with unilateral exercises for your arms, full body B. This is gonna be whatever quad focus. And we're gonna start with unilateral exercise for your quads. And so we can actually make it feel like the focus has changed or that there's some extra factor there that feels extra motivating. And the interesting thing there is that by doing that, you're actually getting a pretty big adoption in recruitment. Yes, so if you're getting benefit from this. If you start to work out with unilateral exercises for a particular muscle group, then you are really gonna be pushing the recruitment stimulus to gain access to new motor units for those muscles. So that's actually a kind of, and again, super relevant for this population, because that's something that's actually going to spill over in declinesations. I mean, that's sort of the concept of thought path and I would encourage people to use is that, okay, if they do need to compromise, how do I now use this in a way that's actually gonna add benefit instead of just being a compromise? Yeah, no, totally. I mean, ultimately, my kind of original thought process with this is always kind of, you know, how can I present the appearance of novelty without really having any novelty? But yeah, you're absolutely right. If you can push it into directions of saying, well, you know, can I get something extra out of it while I'm doing that, then that's even better. So yeah, I mean, I think there's actually a lot there under the heading of exercise selection, where you can kind of make it look like your exercise is changing. And, you know, in some respects, it is, but not very much and not meaningfully in the context of the, you know, kind of level of development that people have, who are seeking up particular service at that particular time. Yeah. If you want to exercise selection, it's more we can do for novelty, isn't it? Yeah, I think there's a little bit more, but I think ultimately, the exercise selection is the one that probably jumps out most obviously as being, you know, this is different. So like we're going to a different part of the gym. We're using a different piece of equipment, where, you know, fundamentally the movement pattern feels different. I think it's the most obvious and the most kind of noticeable one. I think if you jumped over this and said, I'm not gonna do this, I think you would have an uphill struggle convincing people that you were creating novelty just by using something, for example. Yeah. If you start doing all the other things we're going to mention, it's really going to feel enough. So if you just said, I'm not going to change anything, I'm just going to change rep ranges. I think you would still start to hit an uphill battle with your client because they would still be like, well, I'm just doing more reps with this. It doesn't feel like I'm doing anything particularly different. And honestly, I'm not a huge fan of varying rep ranges that much because generally speaking, when we talk about the time constraints, I'm probably going to have pretty strong views about how many reps I want to do for a time, so change point of view. And I'm going to have pretty strong views about how much recovery capacity I've got before the next workouts. I'm not going to want to go super, super heavy. I'm not going to want to go super, super light. So I've got a very limited kind of number of rep ranges I can work in. Yes, I can kind of play around in the five to seven, six to eight zone. Yes, I can play around in the eight to 12 zone. But much outside of that, I'm not going to be hugely happy about unless it's in a very specific way. So one way that I actually do this, and we haven't talked about this, I don't think, is because you made the point that if you're not changing the exercise, it may not be enough. And there's a group that I have where I don't change the exercises, because I'm just doing twice a week. So I do try to keep it AA, but I do want to introduce some novelty. And so what I actually do in that situation is I make one of those workouts, we start with the lower body and the lower body exercises, we do lower repetitions, so it might be say sets of four, and we'll do multi sets. So it might be two to three sets of three to five repetitions. And then on that workout, all the up body stuff is single sets of moderate reps. So the single set eight to 12. And then the other day, we'll start with the lower body, we'll do multi sets, lower repetitions, and then do single sets, moderate reps. Exactly. So you're structuring it in a particular way. You kind of like limited how much exposure you're getting to that more time consuming type of training. Yes. I mean, alternatively, something else that you know that you do, which is the cluster approach. And again, you can use heavy loads with cluster approaches, and it works really well. The problem with clusters is that you would definitely want to have an A, B structure with that, because you would want to be doing clusters every single time, because you really lose the ability to do progressive overload track that it's happening. So again, structure makes a big difference there to make use of that particular loading scheme. I mean, I'm probably one of the biggest proponents of heavy load zone anywhere, but just in the context of getting them done in a workout where you've got time constraints and novelty constraints, it starts to get a bit more difficult. I think it's a very difficult way of doing it. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably the best way I've found of using it of doing it. And like I said, you know, moment ago is not thinking you need to do that method for every single exercise, because you may just not be able to feasibly do that for everything. Now, actually, on that point with clusters, one thing I like doing is sometimes, and this probably ties into another point, which is not strictly novelty, but it still comes under this perception of what people think that they want. And a lot of the time that is people want to feel like they've worked hard. And so one thing they do, especially with those type of, you know, sort of more fire type personalities who kind of just want to go, go, go, go, they want to feel like they're in a puddle of sweat at the end of the workout, is I might use like a cluster method and finish with that. And you know, we've talked about an Alan Steven method in one of these podcasts in the past, where he effectively did a type of cluster and he would do essentially, you're picking your fire for petition max and then you've got a grab target. And so he was doing 25 repetitions with that target, without weight, I normally would get clients to do 20. And I'll say, okay, we're going to, by picking your fire for petition max of whatever this exercise is we're doing and you're doing 20 repetitions. I don't care how you get there. If you want to do set to five or four, two of one, I didn't care, but you're going to do, you're going to get 20 repetitions out. And so there's like a challenge component to it. This is like, oh, I'm getting to do something difficult if I want to do it. And we're able to use heavy loads in an effective way that's producing a lot of stimulus. That's not ultimately that time consuming. Yeah, I think there's a number of ways of tackling that kind of problem. I mean, I think one of the easiest and simplest ways is to introduce some sort of brief interval training at the end of a workout if people really want to leave feeling like they're out of breath. I mean, because obviously, as you know, doing a little bit of cardio at the end of a workout isn't, you know, problematic for my, I put stimulus point of view. So if you've got an elliptical or you've got some other kind of low impact machinery available to you, then, you know, most of us know how to create a pretty horrible, you know, kind of cardio sensation very, very quickly on those kind of machines. Not very long yet. You don't need very much time at all. I mean, just doing a wind-giving exercise. Yeah, exactly. You can create that sensation in 30 seconds. So honestly, I'm less, I didn't even have it on my list of things, my categories. You know, I just got novelty and time constraints because for me, honestly, you can very, very easily make. So I mean, it's the easiest thing in the world is to make someone feel tired. I mean, that's what we joke about all the time, isn't it? It's like most coaches are running around out there just making the clients feel tired, which I mean, honestly, you can do that, you know, without any kind of expertise whatsoever, really. Yeah. So yeah, no, you're right. I mean, there is a concern that, you know, if we're not providing that, then some clients may say, "I don't feel like I'm of work very hard in your sessions." Well, okay, no problem. We can fix that in 30 seconds. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so. And you know, there are creative ways to do that with weights as well. Like beyond the cluster method I mentioned there, you know, it can be like a, again, if you're using higher load further away from failure, you can do in every minute on the minute for five minutes or whatever you want. You know, there's ways to actually use this in a way that's not subtracting heavily from the stimulus you're able to get. Now, there's other ways to be providing some of this novelty and clusters is part of this. So it's changing up sets and repetition schemes is part of that. And even, I guess, the structure of the workout as well. And I've alluded to some of that. But it can be as simple as, you know, I mentioned a moment ago, starting with lower body exercise and then doing up body and flipping that. One method I like to use with clients is, and it's relevant to your point that you can't do everything heavy, right? Because it's going to take too many warm upsets. It's going to take too much time. And so there's an old, I guess it was Polk and I learned from Charles. I don't know if you can't put someone before Charles, but he used a method called heavy light method. And the idea would be that you would superset a heavy exercise, usually a multi-join exercise. You might do say set of five overhead press barbell, whatever. And then you'll, he would immediately go into a lighter set and it would usually be single joints. It might be a lateral raise and you might do a set of 12 for 15. Now I've modified that heavily, but I do like that idea of how we do all multi-join stuff and we're doing lower repetitions. We're just not going to get enough, we don't have enough time to get it all done. So I might, in that example, pick a overhead press and we might do that first set of five. And then we might take full rest period and then we're going to pick our single joint exercise. A lateral raise would be a good example here if the overhead was done in sagittal plane. Now we'll do a lateral raise, hit the middle delt and we might do a moderate drip set of say 10 to 12. And that's probably not going to require, I would say any warming up maybe one more upset if you want. And so it's a way for us to still get some of the multi-join stuff in, still get some of the heavy load, strength work in, still get like a lot of the. excise variety because we're also getting some of our single set, you know, higher repetitions, less warm up, set up, etc. So, and I just by pairing it like that, by calling it heavy light, hey, we're doing heavy excise, we're doing a light exercise, there's like this mental stimulation going cool, this is something new, we're not doing everything sets of 10 today, we're not doing everything sets of five, we're actually, you know, alternating. Yeah, so this is now kind of crossing the bridge over from just being about novelty to being about both novelty and time constraints. So, for me, my two categories of things that I'm addressing here are like, am I presenting enough novelty to my client? And I also presenting my client with at least the perception that they're not wasting any time in the gym. So, I think what you're now doing is you're introducing things that are now starting to bridge both of those categories. So, when we're doing say an excise, we're looking at our excise order, if we do kind of, you know, a string of compound exercises, we're going to have to leave pretty long rest between those because of the cardiovascular components. If I then like do my single joints later on, then like I've got short rest between those, but if you alternate between heavy compounds and sort of more moderate single joint stuff, you're probably just going to do your warm upsets for your heavy compound and then I would probably take a short break then and then going to do the single joint moderate load without really needing much warm up at all. And you can start to really kind of jigsaw your workout together in a way that starts to reduce the total amount of time that your client is just kind of staring at the wall waiting for you to tell him what to do next, which is not really a great place for them to be. And that for me really is the essence of the time constraint more than the time constraint itself because honestly, you know, an hour or 45 minutes is more than enough time to get a really good workout in. The issue more for me is the client spending time because honestly, if I'm in the gym, I go to the gym and I spend more time sitting looking at the wall than I do doing exercise. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I know what I'm doing. But the client doesn't want to feel like that. They want to feel like every moment in the gym is something that they're getting benefit out of. Now, I think constructing your exercise order or your kind of organization of rep ranges and exercise combinations is a really nice way to start to make sure that you don't end up with really long-west periods between, you know, sets or different exercises because you're kind of constantly doing really high demanding cardio exercises like going from squats and deadlifts and presses and pulls and that kind of thing. It's like, well, you know, you're going to need five minutes between each of those kind of things and you're going to very quickly to a lot of time but also make these dead zones in the session when your client doesn't feel like they're getting anything valuable. Yeah, I mean, both certainly issues for different people. You know, some people simply because some PTs have half an hour to do a session and then some have 45 to 16 minutes to have ample time to get a good session in but you've got a client sitting there thinking they're wasting half of that time doing it. Yeah, yeah, totally. So I think those are the kind of things that we can go after and say, well, what can I do that's useful that is kind of going to add value? And I mean, I think ultimately you can use potentiation exercises, especially if you're doing single sets or minimum number of sets for each of your work exercises, then it makes sense to have a potentiation exercise. Now, the really interesting thing about potentiation is that it's muscle-specific. So ultimately, say, for example, the client is doing a chest press and they've done a couple of warm-up sets and they're ready to go. You can give them a potentiation exercise prior to actually doing the main set, which not only choose up a little bit of time because they're going to go a single, say, for example, they do a single medicine ball throw into the wall. That's a potentiation exercise that's going to give them a benefit prior to doing the main set. That also provides novelty. So we're actually, again, like I was saying, bridging the gap between the novelty stuff and the time constraints stuff because not only are they not sitting there doing nothing, they're actually, they've stood up, they've done a possible passive shutdown, again, wait to 30 seconds, then they've done the main set. They've also created them into novelty because I don't have to do the same exact potentiation exercise next time. Yes. Yeah, that's a good point. So you can actually do some novelty in AB workout and then you've just got more total variations of this workout over time. You can actually include an enormous amount of variety that isn't actually variety. This is really starting to provide what is perceived to be variable as well as what is actually variable. So another thing, and this is less immediately beneficial, the potentiation effect exists to disperse it is variable. But what I would often do when I was working as a PT would introduce either a static stretch for a non-related muscle group or a mobility exercise, just simply some kind of drill. And again, not necessarily related to the client's ultimate goal of achieving a body comp goal or whatever it may be, but it actually does provide that little bit of novelty and essentially it is really just kind of active recovery or very, very low level active recovery really. Again, it provides a focus of attention for the client between the main sets that they're actually doing to stop them from drifting into a spiraling thought process, which is why am I paying to stand here and stare at the TV before I do the next exercise? You know, so it is providing some right. Now, the thing I thought was really cool when we were talking about this before this podcast was that you mentioned providing some brief educational sound lights between sets. And I think the way that you describe this to me is really cool because I think most people who approach this approach it very in the wrong way, but the way you described it to me was very cool. So would you describe that again? Yeah. So obviously educating clients is beneficial and that's something that can be done within the context of your sessions in the gym. What I would do with my clients, my in-person clients is I would have, so I would have an iPad. I didn't want to have my phone on the gym floor. I don't think that's a good look on the gym floor even to other clients. Your client may know what you're doing. You may be looking at the workout tracking, the progress, whatever. Other clients see a PT standing there with their phone and they think that it's messaging between sets. So I made it and effort to always have an iPad or something that looked a little bit more legitimate. And as well as having the clients plan, I would have what I would call buy a feedback. And so I'd have a series of usually about 10 questions that I would go through without client. And it would be, you know, stuff as simple as, you know, how is your nutrition, you know, diet this week? You know, are there any changes between your makeup, are there any hurdles you were hitting? How is your digestion been this week? How is your sleep being this week this week? And it would be an opportunity to, you know, to take that conversation which either doesn't happen at all, or it happens at the start of the session for 10 minutes before you get into the gym floor. And that's kind of wasted time and a sense. And it would be an opportunity to integrate it into a way that was just, you know, killing two beds with one stone, multitasking. It's client-focused conversation. It's information is going to aid them towards their goal. And we're not just talking about what they did on the weekend. And then they, you know, it's opportunity for me to gather all the data I need. And then at the end of the session, I can write it up. I can send them over any adjustments we need to make. So I just want to emphasize how important this client-focused kind of process is. Because let me give an example that most listeners to this podcast will probably resonate with. You can probably remember being back in school and being taught something that you weren't interested or whether it was history, geography or whatever it may have been. I mean, I don't know what, I was obviously not interested in certain things and other people are not interested in other things. What was the subject you were not interested in? I was not really interested in anything at all, apart from maybe chemistry and mathematics. I think those are the only things that really made me kind of pay attention because they were very, very complex structured systems that attracted my brain. If a body of knowledge can't be systematized and explained logically, then I lose interest quite quickly. So you're laughing at me now because I'm not making any comments. But anyway, the point I'm making is that most people can probably remember being in school and trying to learn something that we're not interested in and largely not getting anywhere with it, even though they're exposed to enormous amounts of time and effort and energy on those things. Fast forward to today and we're presenting detailed information about physiology and you're probably becoming relatively expert in that field yourself simply because you're interested in it and it is personally relevant. And that's the really, really important thing here that you're describing with this approach that you've taken to client education. Client education is not going to work if you go into the session and you decide that you're going to teach your client about, I don't know, Motune, it recruitment or something or whatever, maybe. If the client doesn't have a reason to listen to you, it's just going to go in one ear and out the other ear, the same way that history and geography and all the other stuff went in one ear and out the other ear for me. So now what we can do, if we take your approach, it's like you walk through a series of important areas that you want to question your client about. They volunteer personal experience of information that is relevant to them and you take the opportunity to say, well, okay, so having you said this to me, that then implies that maybe we need to think about doing x, y, z, which is then an opportunity to learn more about the reasons why you're telling those things or the approaches that you're going to take and why they're going to work and because they are personally relevant, the information goes in and stays there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's something that they're now interested in because it directly affects them. Exactly. I mean, just if my analogy about learning stuff in school didn't really stick. Just remember that the Calvin and Hobbes cartoons are literally about this entire concept. The main character of Calvin and Hobbes literally is useless in school and has the ability to create entire kind of universes in his own imagination to an incredible degree of detail. That is literally just telling you from the moment the cartoon was first published to the final episode, the entire cartoon is just about showing you that people don't learn things if they're not relevant to them. They just switch off. Yeah. So, I guess probably the biggest part of this time problem that people are facing is coming out to rest periods. And so those are a few ways you can either utilize that rest period, as we've just talked about from an educational standpoint, or you can add something in the middle of it as you talked about with this potentiation exercise you could use or stretching. There's also a way we can simply reduce the rest period time that's needed as well. And there's really obvious ways of doing that. One would be exercise pairings antagonists. It's not super sets because we are taking it in the rest between those exercises, but a shorter rest in what we would otherwise need. I think they started to get called alternating sets. I'm talking about alternating. I don't know. I've definitely tried to clear up that terminology in the past, but at the end of the day people use super sets. I mean, I kind of, when I say I'm taking the superset, I generally just mean an alternating order of exercises. But again, I mean, how much now are we really going to be pushing multiple set protocols with clients anyway? I guess we're much more likely to be using, if we are going to use multiple set protocols, we're probably going to go in the cluster route. You know, more of the most of the rest of the time, we're probably just going to have a different exciting time, aren't we? Yeah, generally. The only time I'm really doing multi sets is if we are using low repetitions, like sub-five repetitions. That doesn't particularly change how we're going to use. I guess we use, yeah, I see what you're saying. Well, it gives us super setting. Whatever you want to call it, even if we are using different exercises, obviously you want to take a rest between those two exercises. So it's still, I guess, relevant in terms of that. But either way, so having some kind of exercise pairing there can certainly help. And one thing that I do a lot of is when I am using multi-join exercises and not every multi-join exercise will be like this, but say you're doing a squat. If I get a client do moderate repetitions on a squat and they're even remotely strong at all, that set of closer failure on a squat, a half squat pendulum squat, anything like that, that is going to ruin them cardiovascular for the next five minutes. You know, I did, I did hit trust yesterday and I didn't have, I wasn't able to load it that heavy, right? Like the machine's quite limited how much weight if you get on it. So I think I did a set of 15 or 16 repetitions. I thought I was going to vomit for the next five minutes. So if we give a client high repetition, multi-joint, you know, squat, whatever, that is a really inefficient way to utilize those respirators because they're going to need so long. So what I tend to do with these multi-joint exercises is I tend to make them lower repetition and I might keep repetition and reserve, we might do a set of five, a set of six, whatever, one rep and reserve, and they're going to need half as long for respiratory compared to doing that set of 10 or 15. Totally. And then I think it makes so much sense to just slot a single joint, you know, kind of in between moderate load, exercise in as the next thing, you know, and kind of because there's so much less sensitive to that problem and they've got high, you know, kind of voluntary activation capacity anyway. So if you kind of dropping in something like a, you know, leg press and then you've got a biceps curl and then you've got, you know, kind of a, I don't know, some kind of, you know, hinge or, you know, stiff leg or whatever it may be. And then you kind of do some triceps extension or something like that. And you start to kind of go high, low, high, low, high low with those in terms of cardiovascular demand. You know, I think that again is is is not perfect for many many prospective, but it's definitely limiting that rest period duration. Those exercises become a true asset. Even for myself, I look at something like an adacto, adacto machine exercise and I strategically use that when I think I'm going to need it. Like, if I've just done squats or something, I'm like, great, I'm going to use him, doctor here because I just want to sit down and do something easy for the next five minutes. They just want to just retreat to the lateral raise machine. I was like, do single, I'm just, I classes on lachyrus. I make huge fan of that. That is like, that's the trump card for actually reducing some of the cardiovascular demand. Just collapse into the machine and stay there for five minutes. And then another point on that actually is you can also use those more cardiovascular demanding exercises at the end. So I mentioned that point with the, like that cluster protocol. If you've got something like that, say you want to do greedy squats. You know, this is something I don't like that Hoffman did in this workout today. Is heated and I understand from the weights and using that single bar, your point was good. That was probably why he did it. But if you weren't limited by the load and you could have done that exercise anywhere you wanted, I wouldn't be starting with a breathing squat. I would be using that right at the end, saying to the client, hey, we're doing all the cardiovascular demanding stuff in this part of the workout. The easy stuff comes first and here's where you can do that sort of bloody 20 breathing squats. So you can do your leg crest for a set of 10 or whatever it is. We'll give you that at the end. Yeah, I mean, yeah, breathings cost, I mean, it's like the, the world is divided in the fitness world is divided into two groups of people. If people have actually done them and know what they feel like, the people who haven't and think that it might be divided. It's like, once you've done them, you're like, okay, that was an experience that I'm never going to repeat. And it just like it's just not going to happen. I think every one to two years, I come back to them for a period of time until I start feeling anxious about coming back. It normally lasts maybe four weeks. I get about four weeks worth. Oh, I'm feeling too anxious. Did it once and I swore I would never do it again. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, there are much better ways of programming. I think obviously we understand that the limitation was the placement of the barbell on the back and you had to use a relatively light-ish load to make that work. And therefore, that's what they ended up doing. It is what it is. We're not constrained by that. We have squat racks. We have machines. We don't need to do that anymore. Anything else to do with time? Obviously, in terms of total session time, there's a couple points I want to make, but in terms of rest periods or efficiency there, any other points you had. I think to be honest, when it comes to time, my focus was much more on making sure the clients don't feel like they're wasting it. So it's about constructing a good workout in the constraints of the total time available and then filling in the gaps or moving the jigsaw rail a little bit to limit the rest periods and make sure that it just kind of presents the right image. So I wasn't ever really worried so much about the total session duration because I've never had to construct workouts that lasted 30 minutes. I've always had either 45 or an hour. 45 minutes or an hour to make a session work. But for people who are actually trying to get stuff done in 30 minutes, I think it's still doable. I bet they probably need to focus much on the jigsaw aspect of it, much less on the kind of filling in the gaps aspect. Yeah. I don't know if this is a cultural thing or what, but I had certainly seen 30 minutes sessions become a lot more popular, at least over here. I often see this in the gym and I see PT's working with their clients. Their clients will literally be huffing and puffing as they start the next exercise. And it's just like I understand that the PT is limited in the time, but I just can't think like what I do is I look at that situation. I think that the ironic thing, yeah, you see, client has come to the PT thinking they're going to get a better workout and they're going to get far inferior workout, far more inferior than what they would be getting if they went to the gym by themselves because they wouldn't be constrained by that 30 minute time slot. And that's ultimately like that's that's so like offensive than that's the case. Your pain professional getting a worse outcome because of their limitation, not yours. Yes. So when I look at that situation, what I think to myself is what you should be doing in my opinion is if you're not going to do single sets, at least do a single set protocol with our client and then they can add additional volume with the one. So the way I would do that is essentially I would do like a circuit. So I say, okay, these are the eight exercises we're doing today, the seven exercises we're doing today, we're going to work for each one of those and we're going to do a single set of each and we'll take our two minutes between sets and we'll do our potentiation, we'll do our education, whatever. And then at the end of that, if you want to add a second second set, you can do that by yourself, right? A lot of clients are self motivated to do that. So and what I would do is I set them a goal. I'd say, hey, we just hit eight repetitions in our first circus. Your goal now is to match that, yeah? And so there's a least a standard set because, you know, obviously sometimes if you leave a client to their own devices, I might do five repetitions and they're done. So no, no, your goal is I need you to get exactly the same number of repetitions, whatever goal you want to set them. And that way, if you want to get more volume, you can, but that way you've at least gone through everything you're doing in a session with them, you've given them any technique feedback then, you've given them whatever, that to me is a much more effective way of doing it than trying to smash through multi-set trolley tolls, having the client huffing and puffing between each set just doesn't make sense to me. Now that's really very well. That's that that's that's that's a really interesting approach. Yeah. So I mean, you could literally be going around with them in the first circuit and you could be not noting down on a piece of paper exactly what reps they did in the end of it, you could give them it like a receipt. Yeah. There's your your mission should you choose to accept it is to do that again. And I'll go and do another session with a different client. Yeah. That's very, very cool. That is very, very cool. Yeah. And you're still in the gym for, you know, you're still working with another client. So they still they see you out of the corner of their eye between sets, you can give them a quick nod or whatever like this still I find that there's still that accountability aspect there when I did that kind of stuff with my clients It worked and if you are doing short sessions if you are doing half an hour that coach knows there's a good chance And not actually finishing that full workout with our client anyway Then no, we're gonna leave them to do the last you know D series exercise or whatever by themselves anyway So there's all greedy and expectation there that the clients would have to finish something off by themselves This would be the more effective thing for them to finish up so much better than just having something novel and different And you know kind of unstructured and I kind of untargeted in many ways because there's no kind of you know You put someone on some kind of finish your exercises. There's no clear kind of how many you're doing and how much effort you're putting in and what how it how it's work Whereas what you're describing here is very cool because it's like I think one of the constraints I would probably need on that structure would be for it to be mostly machine stuff with minimal kind of requirements for Special technique or form or anything like that. I mean you wouldn't want a scenario where you know The client has been doing three second or five second lowering phases because as soon as they then try and do that on their own There's three seconds I can become two seconds or the five seconds become three seconds or any kind of internal focus is just gonna Go out the window. So it has to be very very kind of you know vanilla in the sense that you're just doing repetitions So some mean they can't start by themselves. Yeah, no complicated squat form no kind of Technical overhead pressing you know cues or anything like that. It's just like this is a machine you sit in it You push this way That's all they have to worry about Yeah, yeah, you did mention like the lowering phases and different focus of intense and you know those obviously novelty things it can be used as well You know isometrics isn't a good example that we didn't touch on You know we talked about classes obviously, but there are some of those methods that can also be included just for the sake of novelty It's not just for the sake, but we'll also provide that novelty component. Yeah, I mean a nice symmetric can function as a post activation Potentiation effect I'm very nicely. I mean so that that is as Gan like I mentioned the medicine ball throw you could just do a push Into a wall or against And then move up the object and that would work Now a lot of these things people can do with online clients as well Obviously the constraints might look a little bit different It might not necessarily be as time basic might still be it might be the decline only has 45 minutes But the novelty issue is probably going to be the same for online clients Yeah, the bit that goes away is that you don't need to present value in the rest periods between sets anymore There's no requirement because they don't feel like they're paying for you to stand next to them and just do nothing So that that requirement falls away, which I think is is good because it's probably the one that is the most Kind of fake in many ways. It's one that gives you less additional benefit for fixing it You know the other ones you fix the issue and you can usually get some kind of additional benefit But that one's kind of like well Reaching we really are reaching to try yeah we're reaching to try and make anything anything out of it Probably honestly the educational side is the most valuable you know, and I think that especially like as you explain where You actually want to get that information out the client anyway So a lot of coaches will be trying to get that information as they're walking to the kind of first item machines And then they'll end up delaying getting on the first machine then you use five six seven minutes at the beginning of your work out What you're doing is you're saying no, we're gonna go straight in They do the warm up bang straight into a first exercise and then in the first rest period Then I'm gonna start asking you questions Yep, yeah exactly. I mean obviously if your client looks like they've been hit by a truck when they walk in the door Then you might want a question before you start but that's like you know kind of a one in a hundred events It's like most of the time people miss slightly better slightly worse or they're gonna have some issues But not you know kind of issues that require to change everything But yeah, I mean like we're being sensitive human beings here We're not kind of like us three people straight to the first machine when they're kind of crawling in on their hands and knees But you know, I think that's coming in into years before and it's like Fix that first before we carry on But normal scenario 98% of the time it's gonna be like let's jump straight in and then in the first rest period We'll start going through the questions and answers and kind of making at the educational stuff work But I think that's super cool because I think that's probably something I didn't mention last week when we talked about errors That we see a lot of and that is I think it is an error that a lot of coaches they burn time because they feel like they need to do this kind of You know sort of checking in process at the beginning Yeah, yes, but on is anything else you have on your list? I think that's everything I had I Everything I've got I bought you you're more than I did so we got everything okay Well as always, thank you so much for listening Thank you for joining us for another year and I know we said this a few times now But if you do have any suggestions on topics and things you do want us to cover then by all means message us I haven't told you this I've actually started looking at my messages I don't know if you'll believe that or not but and and look the the words starting using a Lot of heavy lifting in that sentence. I can't say I've looked at all them But I did I'm pin up my inbox so by all means message us let us know what topics you would like us to cover Would be valuable because we would love to do that and like I said thank you for joining us and yes Go if it don't message me instead That's it if it's important message is important message me Okay, we'll hopefully see you or he or you'll hear us next week