#015 - Jeremy Jackson - Former Baywatch Star Opens Up on Fame, Meth, Prison and the Pursuit of Self Love

good morning good morning good to see you dude great to see you i'm so happy to be with you thanks for having me in your hood this is your hood this is my hood yeah you sent me one of the best voice notes i've ever received oh like i can't stop thinking about it really i got a teary eye just listening to it and it's interesting it's amazing and beautiful and what to receive affirmation in the way that you affirmed me and it's it's cool because i i have this sense that i i i have this sort of subtle sense that i know i'm good at this i know that this is a gift of mine but there's nothing like hearing it from someone like yourself it's just a beautiful feeling and um yeah you you almost taught me the value of seeing someone that clearly mm-hmm yeah so so just thank you thank you for letting me see you and thank you for shining bright enough that it's kind of hard to ignore at least for me yeah beautiful yeah wow that's beautiful thank you what a gift what a gift well let's rock and roll because you got you we got an hour and 15 here are we we on yeah everything's live we start tapping into something you know i'm gonna tell these people to hold but okay all right um jeremy i want to begin here uh at nine years old you beat leonardo dicaprio for a role that would make you one of the most recognizable kids on planet earth and then for nine seasons and 159 episodes i believe it was you played hobie boo cannon on baywatch which at the time was the most watched television show in the world indeed all of this is true a billion people knew your face before you could even drive a car you released albums you told the world and you seemingly had everything that a boy's told to want and by the final season i believe you were using meth mm-hmm what seemed to follow was two decades of the kind of descent that most people don't come back from addiction manufacturing meth and facing up to 35 years in prison jail public collapse and the tabloid version of a life that was told by everyone except for you i once heard you say that most people would claw their own skin off their face if they thought and felt the way i have for most of my life mm-hmm and yet here you are sober free a recovery coach a breath work facilitator and a spiritual teacher a man who has a golden key tattooed on his hand and has devoted his life to the good of the life of the people in his life and to the good of the people in his life and to the good of the people that are still lost in the places that he managed to come back from and what i want to begin with you is that it seems as though jeremy that you finally stopped performing for the first time since you were six years old you know you said it off camera i wear so many different masks how do you know when you are absent of the mask mm-hmm and when i know i'm absent of the mask uh. is a scary place because when the mask drops intentionality compassion uh. draw just just this this poll like into into truth is like through these powerful i can't i can't feel like him in my conscious mind says uh. i could spend my whole life on that topic so you can't you can't be that raw you you know because you don't have your whole life to spend on that topic you've got to do other stuff so you know being in that that place is is scary but it's so beautiful you know you shared that stuff from your heart about that voice not that i left you and like tears come to my eye you know but as a man that's supposed to be not cool you're not uh. you know gonna get you across the finish line so to speak right that stuff needs to be put to the side so i guess when i'm getting choked up when i'm on this in this place of awe for exactly what's kinda going on and and really really present with whatever that is that's that's when i know the masks are down do you still feel like you wear those masks oh my gosh yeah it's a it's a it's a constant juggling act you know uh. i was actually going through it in the shower this morning you know noticing that the ego and the pride and the insecurity and the doubt and the the truth or what i think the truth is and what i should be what i shouldn't be there's this kind of miracle round you know of what is and what isn't and what what's right and what's wrong what does it sound like for you oh uh. you know what kinda i shared a little bit about coming back on the show yeah Like, oh, man, I feel it was really good. What we did was really good. And I hope it's going to be that good. I don't know. I feel a little off today. It might not be as good. What if it totally sucks? What if I get hung up trying to be as good as it was before? And I just look like an idiot. Maybe I should just go on the show and admit that I don't know shit. And everything that's happening is just happening. And I don't really know anything. I can't teach anything. What do I know? I'm a loser. I'm a guy that just was in prison, jail, and, you know, a felon and a drug addict. Why should people ever listen to me? But wait a minute. I got a message. I'm not that person anymore. It sounds like that, at least for 30 seconds. And then you just copy and paste that onto infinitum. You know, it can sound like that. Sounds like it was just like the voice is just dancing between the sense of depression and grandiosity. Yeah, absolutely. Egomaniac and inferiority complex. You said, I'm a loser. Is that a common narrative for you that you've had to get beyond? Well, I love, um, yes. And, but I, at the same time, I love like rebranding, you know, I love actually listening, actually fucking listen and like radical accountability accepted. Like I'm a loser. I'm like, wait a minute. Yeah. People that fucking freaking lose a lot. They, they win. You cannot really win unless you've lost, you know, like, okay. So, yeah. I've, I've, I've, I've started actually listening. That's a really interesting way of looking at it because a lot of people would, um, sort of, I guess, see that narrative as something to transcend, but it sounds like you've taken it in. I got to, for me, for me, I have to, I got to let these things land because I truly believe the message is in the mess. What does that mean? The message is in the mess. Well, these things that look like they're falling apart. They're falling apart to the, to the conscious mind, to the human mind, to the mind that wants to keep us in the place of tangible, provable, factual math, time, all that kind of stuff. Um, that version of my mind sees it as a mess, sees it as falling apart. But I believe this on a soul level, the intangible. Possessed within the inaudible heard within the invisible scene within not unable to hear, unable to touch. Yeah. Um, but exists within knows and knows that nothing is out of place in God's world. It knows that birds don't go without seed. It knows that the sun doesn't labor to come up. It knows that it's always darkest before the dawn. And as it knows that I'm getting vitamin D from the sun and melatonin from the moon, it knows that gravity is perfect to keep my knees from breaking or flying off the face of the plate. It knows that in the grand scheme of things, everything's perfect and nothing goes without it. How can I, but only my soul knows that and it forgets it. And so there's this communication between observing the conscious mind, the thoughts, the limitation, because it's there. It's, it's. It's infinite and, and limited and finding that, that balance between the two. It's interesting to me to hear you say some of these things, because my perspective and understanding of you is that you are one of the most heart centered, loving men that I've met. And one of the questions that I have for you is how do you tap into that place? Because vulnerably for me, it's been one of my greatest challenges. You know, I, I, my partner described me as a duck and a duck when they're swimming above the water, they look so calm. But if you look. Under the water, their feet are, and I feel like that often, and oftentimes that, that is my analytical mind. That's interrupting me from being in my heart. And so I'm curious for you, what, what are the moments in your life that have supported you in coming from that place and how now do you feel? find the ability to arrive in your heart. Interestingly enough, that's the second time in, I think, 48 hours that the duck analogy has come up. Wow, really? I was working with a group online just yesterday, and somebody gave themselves that analogy. And it makes so much sense, and I've been there too. And so for me, my truth is that, well, I'll just share it. Offbeat, but cohesive. My tongue to ear teases, I crave to please Jesus, a journey non-ceasing. One day I woke up, my life was so stuck. I prayed and thanked God to get me turned up. You see, when I was just a boy, I felt for all mankind. I saved up all my money, every nickel, every dime, and then gave it to the streets. The bums outside my house, they said they need to eat. My heart was for the suffering, but it slowly turned to stone, a quest to find my soul, and ended up alone. Now that I'm fully grown, I'm coming back to home, the place where I belong, the struggle in my song, because money, hoes, and clothes cannot be taken with. So with my last breaths, I'll strive to just exist. I spit this troll. Holy truth. I spit this holy truth as the crescendo to my vent. No falling back for this. My words are meant to hit the nail upon the head, like Christ dying for my sins. I wrote that. You wrote that? I wrote that in rehab, like, many, many years ago. Wow. You know, at the time I was. That wrote you. You didn't write that. That came through. That is like, wow, that is. Yeah. Oh, what a beautiful, what a beautiful writing. Thank you. And that was. That was a version of myself that was really trying to find this, you know, religious rescue, you know? Yeah. And although my grip on that, my view on that has softened a lot, the core of it remains the same. Like, I just always had this heart for people. I wanted everybody to have what I had. If they didn't have as much, I. It didn't make sense to me. How can they not? And so I can share. I can give. And it balances the scale a little bit. It helps tip it in somebody's favor. It lets them know that they've got a chance, that someone sees them, that it's going to be okay, at least for today. And that's just how I was born. It's always been there, and I lost it deeply. And. You know, so the journey in life has led me to just becoming more childlike and reacquainting myself with that tenderness. Is that the path for a man back to his heart? I think so. I think the path for a man back to his heart is to become more childlike, to become what he was, you know? Knowing what we think we know, gaining and accumulating the data, the wounds, the scars, the intelligence, has only blocked us off from that. You know, and it's not to be discounted. It's not nothing. It's something, but knowing when to utilize that and when to be. This is really interesting for you, for me, for you in particular, because it seems as though you were asked to grow up quite quickly, being in the acting. And I just wanted to. And you wanted to. I thought I was going to get the job done, quicker than anybody else. I don't know where that idea came from or how I decided that was my mission, but I was going to grow up faster, be adult quicker so I could get to work. If I would have met you then before Baywatch, what version of you would I have met? Who were you before that? I know that's really young. I often tell people, or a little sentence that runs, through my mind, because when you're on television and all that, you seem to oftentimes be forced to live by a perspective, right? But the truth is, and I've kind of had to affirm this to myself at times in my life to remember, I am not the way I am because I was on Baywatch. I was on Baywatch because of the way that I am. What does that mean? Well, people. Let's just, you know, as a young kid, right? 14, showing up to a party, right? What do you do? Act confident, right? I don't know, maybe dance, maybe make some friends, you know? Chug a beer fast, whatever, just like the stuff to, hey, I'm a dude and chicks like me and it's okay. What do I do? You skate, I don't know, you surf. You got your stuff, right? And that's normal, but when I walk up, to the 14-year-old party to hang out, everything I do, everything I say, is because I think I'm cool because I was on TV. Oh, he's saying that because. Oh, he's doing that because. You know what I mean? And you're saying that that's the perception of other people or that was what you were doing? That was the perception of everybody. I couldn't just be, I couldn't just explore. That must have felt so suffocating. Oh my gosh. Like, who am I supposed to, who can I be? And it sounds like it's interesting, because to hear you then, I'm 14 and I walk into a room and everything that comes out of my mouth is being perceived as I'm saying this because I was on TV. And to hear you in the shower this morning having similar, like, what, do I say this or do I say, it sounds like that voice has almost threaded its way through your life. Absolutely. You know, when you write something down in your journal and pencil, like, even if you erase it, it's still there. Yeah. And then if you turn the page, if you wrote it hard enough, it's in that next page and it might even be on the third page. And I think the mind is similar in this way. You know, things that we've etched in, especially if it was strong and if it had an emotional quotient high or if it was easy to prove, see, you know, that's real, that it kind of, it burns its way in there. Even if we erase it later, it can be. It can be etched into the other clean slate pages. It's still there. And it's not a bad thing. It's just, you know, the message is in that mess too. Would you say that that was the most and has been the most challenging part of finding success so early is that you've had to, it's been, it seems as though it's been accompanied with this voice that doesn't know who he can be in the absence of the maybe superimposed narrative that he is this way because he's on TV. Right. I got famous. I got famous. I performed, I sang and I danced because I so deeply wanted authenticity. I didn't know it was going to cost me all of it. That's why you and I vibe so well. It cost me all authenticity. I couldn't have authentic connection. There was always a cross-referencing with, with people. And I, that's a, it's a formative, you know, young spongy mind. You know, I, I didn't know then what I know now. Yeah. But that is, although, although a strange way to grow up, although very confusing, you know, maybe, maybe that's why I just, I favor love, appreciate authenticity so much now because I thought I was going to get it, you know, I'd be in that. Yeah. And it robbed me of all of it. And it robs you of it. You know, Jeremy, it's interesting because my, I feel as though my greatest work has been to feel safe. I feel safe enough inside my own skin to be the fullness of who I am. And I'm curious, understanding your pursuit of yourself. Some might call home. How would you define authenticity? It's, it's a very interesting paradox. How can I feel safe enough to do what's actually scary? Right. I think being, our most open, vulnerable, authentic self is scary because we don't really know where it's coming from. If I'm just emoting, I'm just living energy just in this moment. And like this moment, I feel like going, and that moment I feel like being, no, no way. And like getting all quantum physics, being serious. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, it's such a wide, you know, um, aspect of emotions and stuff that it's scary. So it's an interesting question. How do I ever allow myself, give myself permission to feel safe enough to be who I truly am? In all moments. Yeah. And so I don't know. It's a very, very interesting topic, but authenticity, well, we know it's the highest frequency. You've seen that, right? I did not know that. Yeah. Room. a room full of people with special energetic monitors, frequency monitors, vibration monitors, all this technical equipment, and everybody just focuses on joy and reading joy on the wall and getting to a place of joy. And then doing the same thing with anger, and then doing the same thing with peace, and doing the same thing with grief, and all of the range of emotions. And authenticity registered the highest output, the highest frequency of any of the other emotions. The highest frequency is authenticity. That's the most powerful human experience is to be authentic. A higher frequency than joy. Bliss or joy or gratitude or anything. Isn't that wild? What do you make of that? I think those parts that we talked about, that busy head, that fear, that insecurity, that doubt, that. Wait a minute, the negotiating. No, I don't believe that anymore. All of that, it's part of authenticity. I can't be authentic unless I've integrated the shadow and accepted it and been like, here I am. I'm a multi-time felon who's done prison time. You know, who's got all this crazy stuff, who had the biggest opportunities in the world. Shit on him. Who has. I, Jeremy Jackson, have more people in this world. That hate me than I do that love me. That's a truth. What do you mean? Suck on that for a second. Well, the caveat is the people that hate me have never met me. And the people that love me spend time with me. They're close to me. But it doesn't change the fact that it's true. Due to my divorce, millions of people who think that I am an abusive psychopath who made my ex-wife have mental health issues and be homeless and that I'm refusing to help her. There's millions of people that think that. That tell me I should rot in hell. That tell me they hope God punishes me for everything I've done. That tell me I should kill myself. Do the world a favor and take my own life. These are the types of messages that I get from these people who are believing something who have never met me. What is. I mean, we didn't unpack this last time, and it's not much that I've seen you speak upon. I've been very, very cautious because there's nothing I can say that will be of help. That's kind of the crossroads I came. If I could say something, if I could share something, if I could prove, if I could. If I could unprove, if I could take accountability, or if there was something I could do to help, I would. But there isn't. What would be understanding that, like, me asking you this is because I love you? What would be the authentic message from you as it relates to that experience? From that mess, right? Yeah. God enters through the wound, is another beautiful way to say this, is that I now understand and have accepted the power of my own mind. How I can create fantasy. How I can create fantasy, illusions. How I can be so dedicated to a mission that I have the ability to not actually see what's really going on. And that's a big responsibility. I didn't understand that before. I didn't understand that I can take the bit in my teeth, so to speak, and that I can be so focused on a prize, so focused on a goal, so focused on an outcome and an objective, that I can absolutely lose present moment awareness and become far less effective. The goal, altruistic. The goal, you know, seemingly greater good. I mean, and most atrocities on the face of our planet happen in that same way. In that moment. Hitler. Yeah. Right? He's got something he really believes in. Yeah. He's got something that's got to move the needle. And yeah, some suffering over here, some sacrifice over here, but you know what? It's when I get there, it'll all be worth it. I'm pretty sure common men feel the same way. Addicts. I think gamblers, same thing, right? That next one, I'm going to pay off. They're gambling because they're going to pay off all the people they've heard. They're not even gambling for themselves. They believe they're going to write the universe. You know? This next one, I'm going to fucking pay it all off. This is it. My wife, my kids, I'm going to put that money back in my kids' college graduation fund. And I have to. Yeah. They think they're doing it from a good, well, maybe the deeper part is doing it from a well-intentioned place, but just the behavior that's fulfilling upon it is dysfunction. Yeah. Yeah. And so I got into that place. Yeah. Yeah. You know, where I had a vision that was altruistic, that was seemingly beautiful. And I needed to, I needed to, what happens? Here's what happens. It's so sneaky. This thing that was going to be good for everybody becomes completely selfish and self-centered. It becomes selfish and self-centered and comes back to our authenticity piece because I'm not able, I'm not able to I'm not present enough to take in the new data that's going on in this moment. I've become so attached to an objective and an ideal and a outcome. I can't, I can't slow myself down enough to hear, see, feel, accept, process what's really going on because that might cost me my objective. I couldn't absorb, I couldn't hear, I couldn't stick, hey, that coming from and how what else is going on yeah your brain wouldn't allow you to connect the dots that your intuition was clearly seeing and when did you finally connect those dots probably so this experience is goodness uh i don't know i haven't done the math but you know we're coming up on maybe 15 years old 12 12 to 15 anyway married for two years engaged for a year and this was a really public marriage it sounds like like yeah yeah cover magazines and wow you know gosh well i think it was us us weekly or whatever our proposal wow like that that kind of thing yeah okay um dating for a year engaged for a year married for two known her for 12 you know so it wasn't like a thing uh you know met her out one night thing it had a i believed that we were that it was that star-crossed lover yeah coming yeah to fruition um which is a whole nother topic right it's beautiful oh yes in intuitive divine omens signs oh yes passion believe it receive it yes beautiful do it do it but not at the cost of present moments present moment awareness and radical accountability and and pause right um so after being together for four years it wasn't until two years after i had not seen her and we're talking grief and loss counseling talking letters letters that i never mailed 20 of them you know long-winded letters prayer heartbreak oh heartbreak moaning groaning weeping anger fear resentment shame the whole thing two years later um until i saw her homeless toothless shopping cart refusing help scabby injured talking to herself refusing help anger outbursts on anybody that tried to help her um what was that like digging through trash cans well i'll be totally honest because that's authenticity yeah at first i was like you fuck you and got everything you deserve bitch you ruined my fucking life you said i tried to kill you you had the cops looking for me you broke my mom's heart you broke my sister's heart i had to go into hiding which led me to be so freaking scared to get arrested i was in a horrible trauma loop for months hiding from something that i didn't do that i got on drugs and made my whole life messed up again and lasted probably a week a week and then fortunately for amazing mentorship and trusted counsel you know my buddy asked me if i could if i'd be willing to put that to the side for just a second everything that happened and um and to remember my singleness of purpose which is to carry the message to any alcoholic and addict who suffers and if i could see her just as a suffering addict for a moment and that changed everything in an instant i was on the phone i i got her three hundred thousand dollars in free care support mental health facilities aiming clinic i'm talking i called the troops the team i called dr sophie who worked for dr drupinski for years he was the head of the mental health facility and i was like i don't know what the hell you're talking about and i was like what the hell are you talking about and i was like i don't know what the hell you're talking about and it cost me my sanity it cost me um oh gosh you know 10 years my my life took such a drastic turn with criminal charges and and and relapse and oh this is the this me that you see right now is a product of of that hell you know i was potentially meant to be right where she is that she maybe wanted to take me there with her you know and this sounds like you've had some what would be seen from the outside as some pretty horrific events occur in your life was that the hardest that one hurt the most that one gutted me the most you know i've i've uh experienced sexual abuse i've experienced fatherlessness and and stepfather abuse and um hmm i've experienced uh being kidnapped being shot at hogtied arrests um you know being cheated on and and lied to and stolen from the hundreds of thousands of dollars conned by the people you think you like out of a hundred thousand dollars that you think are your friends like i've experienced a lot of pain a lot of trauma a lot of uh unfortunate circumstance uh but that one it definitely gutted me in in the deepest way to date and after she refused help what has happened since well you know sadly it just keeps going you know i see personally people like her on a daily basis you know i i facilitate groups and rehabs and mental health facilities i see people that are as bad as her make it all the time i see people that are not as bad as her believe that it's got to get worse before it gets better um i i see people who aren't as bad as her uh think they got it figured out and they eventually get there you know so all these different variances and levels and degrees of intensity as far as addiction and mental health goes but nobody very few people i'll say definitely not nobody but very few people really understand in the way i've been blessed to understand the mind of an alcoholic and an addict suffering from mental health disorder and i know exactly what's in store it's it's jail it's mental health facilities or rehabs um or it's death is that a predictable path absolutely 100 certainty why because if they don't accept help they'll die and if they don't accept help and they're drinking using and insane they'll probably get put in jail she has been in jail and she will go back in jail for something so it's jails it's institutions or it's death fentanyl yeah why don't they accept help well many reasons that's a great question a big one why don't they accept help why don't they accept help don't believe they're worthy of help don't believe it'll really work if they try so what's the point in trying know from their own past experience that they give up anyway so what's the point in trying they want help but they also want to stay high yeah um they want help but not as much as they want to stay high yeah or wow it's like that quote until the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of change you'll continue to choose the pain that you know that's the exact quote it hasn't hurt enough yet you know why did you accept help why did i accept help i think i'm very fortunate with it extremely inquisitive mind and when i was doing it wrong i was gonna try to figure out how to do it wrong i was gonna try to figure out how to do it wrong i was gonna try to figure out how to do it wrong better wrong better wrong better how to do it wrong smarter how to get out how to do it wrong smarter how to get out how to do it wrong smarter how to get out of the trouble that everybody gets in of the trouble that everybody gets in of the trouble that everybody gets in and once i realized that didn't work then and once i realized that didn't work then and once i realized that didn't work then i just that that same inquisitiveness i just that that same inquisitiveness i just that that same inquisitiveness that same curiosity turned on that same curiosity turned on that same curiosity turned on its ear and said its ear and said its ear and said how good can this get how good can this get how good can this get what if it does work out what if it does work out what if it does work out my my my vast experience of vast experience of vast experience of getting sober getting sober getting sober relapsing getting sober relapsing relapsing getting sober relapsing relapsing getting sober relapsing doing good building up an empire yeah doing good building up an empire yeah doing good building up an empire yeah fashion show stylist you know freaking fashion show stylist you know freaking fashion show stylist you know freaking jiu-jitsu tournament celebrity jiu-jitsu tournament celebrity jiu-jitsu tournament celebrity musician you know all these different musician you know all these different musician you know all these different on the on the peak of my trajectory on the on the peak of my trajectory on the on the peak of my trajectory um taught me that um taught me that um taught me that all of that experience wasn't good all of that experience wasn't good all of that experience wasn't good enough enough enough and it had to be something and it had to be something and it had to be something different different different different different different means it's unknown to me if i knew it i means it's unknown to me if i knew it i means it's unknown to me if i knew it i would have kept it would have kept it would have kept it if i really understood it i wouldn't have if i really understood it i wouldn't have if i really understood it i wouldn't have had this fall had this fall had this fall so it opened me up to so it opened me up to so it opened me up to embracing the mystery embracing the mystery embracing the mystery and saying what was on the other side and saying what was on the other side and saying what was on the other side of the curtain that i had yet to see of the curtain that i had yet to see of the curtain that i had yet to see i've heard you use that quote i mean i've heard you use that quote i mean i've heard you use that quote i mean you've said that on you've said that on you've said that on many occasions embracing the rest of this many occasions embracing the rest of this many occasions embracing the rest of this tattooed right here you got it tattooed tattooed right here you got it tattooed tattooed right here you got it tattooed right there what does that mean to you right there what does that mean to you right there what does that mean to you there's a couple of ways i want to go there's a couple of ways i want to go there's a couple of ways i want to go here actually here actually here actually singleness of purpose was a really i singleness of purpose was a really i singleness of purpose was a really i want to pull us back to that singleness want to pull us back to that singleness want to pull us back to that singleness of purpose because that seems of purpose because that seems of purpose because that seems really like it was a mobilizing really like it was a mobilizing really like it was a mobilizing conversation for not only that moment conversation for not only that moment conversation for not only that moment but for the sake of your life but for the sake of your life absolutely understanding your singleness absolutely understanding your singleness absolutely understanding your singleness of purpose of purpose of purpose how important what does that mean to you how important what does that mean to you how important what does that mean to you to have a singleness of purpose and how to have a singleness of purpose and how to have a singleness of purpose and how important is it for someone to important is it for someone to important is it for someone to understand their singleness of purpose understand their singleness of purpose understand their singleness of purpose those are two very very good questions i those are two very very good questions i those are two very very good questions i love them love them love them the statement uh keep god first and the statement uh keep god first and the statement uh keep god first and everything else will be first class everything else will be first class everything else will be first class keep god first and everything else will keep god first and everything else will keep god first and everything else will be first class yeah okay so that that be first class yeah okay so that that be first class yeah okay so that that definitely rings true in this moment definitely rings true in this moment definitely rings true in this moment singleness of purpose singleness of purpose singleness of purpose how does god feel about this singleness how does god feel about this singleness how does god feel about this singleness of purpose what would god have me do of purpose what would god have me do of purpose what would god have me do what would god have me feel who does god what would god have me feel who does god what would god have me feel who does god think i am who does god think they are think i am who does god think they are think i am who does god think they are you know what i mean trying to see with you know what i mean trying to see with you know what i mean trying to see with the eyes of fire the eyes of fire the eyes of fire the eyes of fire the eyes of fire the eyes of fire purify the iniquities and the purify the iniquities and the purify the iniquities and the shortcomings and the and the grief and shortcomings and the and the grief and shortcomings and the and the grief and the fear and the projection and just see the fear and the projection and just see the fear and the projection and just see somebody as a child of god my somebody as a child of god my somebody as a child of god my relative relative relative right my brother my sister yeah right my brother my sister yeah right my brother my sister yeah my equal yeah um and for me that's my my equal yeah um and for me that's my my equal yeah um and for me that's my singleness of purpose my singleness of singleness of purpose my singleness of singleness of purpose my singleness of purpose is purpose is purpose is is to keep god first and so that is to keep god first and so that is to keep god first and so that everything can be first class everything can be first class everything can be first class i'm tired of muddling in the affairs of i'm tired of muddling in the affairs of i'm tired of muddling in the affairs of god god god what does that mean i'm tired of muddling what does that mean i'm tired of muddling what does that mean i'm tired of muddling in the affairs of god yeah in the affairs of god yeah in the affairs of god yeah what does that mean it means god for what does that mean it means god for me at least is the painter me at least is the painter me at least is the painter and i'm tired of being like hey god too and i'm tired of being like hey god too and i'm tired of being like hey god too much yellow over here why don't you much yellow over here why don't you much yellow over here why don't you throw a little blue and oh wow yeah we've had conversations and oh wow yeah we've had conversations and oh wow yeah we've had conversations with god the book i don't think no i with god the book i don't think no i with god the book i don't think no i have it so the book conversations with have it so the book conversations with have it so the book conversations with god and in the book uh the voice of god god and in the book uh the voice of god god and in the book uh the voice of god in the book basically says in the book basically says in the book basically says i can't give you my truth until you i can't give you my truth until you i can't give you my truth until you stop telling me yours stop telling me yours stop telling me yours yeah i can't give you my truth until yeah i can't give you my truth until yeah i can't give you my truth until you stop telling me yours and it sounds you stop telling me yours and it sounds you stop telling me yours and it sounds like like like that's what you that's what you mean that's what you that's what you mean that's what you that's what you mean when you say i get tired of when you say i get tired of when you say i get tired of telling god to put a little blue where telling god to put a little blue where telling god to put a little blue where there's some yellow there's some yellow there's some yellow like god can't have his way with you like god can't have his way with you like god can't have his way with you until you keep trying to have your way until you keep trying to have your way until you keep trying to have your way with god yeah with god yeah with god yeah if you want god to write the love story if you want god to write the love story if you want god to write the love story of your life stop taking the pin out of of your life stop taking the pin out of of your life stop taking the pin out of his hand his hand his hand you know that's a bad you know that's a bad you know that's a bad and just say that can you say that if and just say that can you say that if and just say that if you want god to write the love story you want god to write the love story you want god to write the love story that is your life that is your life that is your life stop taking the pin out of his hand what stop taking the pin out of his hand what stop taking the pin out of his hand what about when it gets hard what like what about when it gets hard what like what about when it gets hard what like what we all take we all want to take the pen we all take we all want to take the pen we all take we all want to take the pen out of god's hand when it gets difficult out of god's hand when it gets difficult out of god's hand when it gets difficult how do you reconcile those moments how do you reconcile those moments how do you reconcile those moments embrace the mystery embrace the mystery embrace the mystery that's how that's how Is it hard or is it always darkest before the dawn? Is it hard? Is it falling apart or is it falling together? Just in a way that your mind, based on everything you know from the past, can assume. Is it going to be different? Do you need different or do you need the same? That's what it really all comes down to. And if the same is working for you, rah, rah, zis, boom, bah, dude. Keep freaking going. But if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired or if you're ready to go to new levels, expand, new territory. ready to experience vastness then it's gotta be different and it can never be different if you're projecting into the present based off everything you know from the past so everything we know in the past says this is a mess but is there a message in that mess am i meant to stop judging the gift for the way it's wrapped and see it through to the other side let's find out assume the best and proceed as if assume the best and proceed as if this is gonna be a beautiful realization this is gonna be a beautiful chapter for the book this is gonna be a radical opportunity to shake off the the weight the the tangled threads of destiny that bind us we read that remember that yeah and so i'm i'm only bound by what i think i know i'm only bound by what i think i know yeah it's the only thing that keeps me chained to the to the it's it's a it's a rock that i'm chained to that is preventing me from salvation is what i think i know what i think i know what i think i need and how i think the world is supposed to operate is the rock i'm chained to that's what costs me my salvation that's so good dude it's so crazy i'm only bound by what i think i know yeah so it sounds like in some ways unchaining ourselves to our own to the mental chatter is freedom absolutely the acceptance that we don't know that reminds me we had peter crone you know peter crone i know you love him you quote him all the time i fucking quote him all the fucking time what an honor that what an unbelievable honor unbelievable honor um but he references three words that changed his life and he talks about after a breakup his mind was racing the girl had basically told him that she was suffocating he was suffocating her and he was like what she was thinking in his head every day where is she what's she doing what's she up to she found another man and he said he had this epiphany moment and in which he got the answer to all the questions and the answer was i don't know and he said those three words catalyzed everything that he now does because he said then he learned in that moment that the nature of life is uncertainty the core and basis of human suffering is our search for certainty and if we could just accept that it is unknown then we'd actually free ourselves from all the suffering that we're trying to avoid by trying to solve it all in the first place they go like if we could just be okay embrace the mystery embrace them here we keep here we keep coming back to that this is interesting because i've seen that you have these series of almost companions like these buzz phrases that you have yes companions yeah what are some of those buzz phrases and i want to understand what they mean embrace the mystery the first one i ever used i got it tattooed on my right arm it comes from a essay written by emmet fox called the golden key it's two and a half pages the golden key the golden key by emmet fox um and he says the all you have to do to overcome any problem on the face of the planet is stop thinking about the problem that's all you have to do so many therapists would go out of business so many therapy is just not an industry anymore with that statement and i could go off on this for hours if you don't water your plant what happens if you don't water your planet dies yes if you don't feed yourself you're dying yeah if you don't take care of a baby you're dying anything that you ignore weakens the contradicting or the antithesis to that statement is that anything that you feed grows bingo which is the invitation the invitation what am i feeding what do i want to grow and what do i want to ignore what do i keep feeding that i want to now ignore yes so it weakens and and when we say ignore we're not pretending it's not there it's not like i don't have anxiety yeah if you have anxiety that's okay but if you work on your anxiety if you try to overcome your anxiety if you get medications to curb your anxiety if you have to only hang out with your family if you have to only hang out with certain people in certain places at certain time to protect your anxiety that that's all you're doing is feeding the anxiety and wondering why it's never gone yeah so we have to replace so it's impossible to stop thinking about a problem by trying to stop thinking about the problem don't think about your problems you're thinking about your problems by trying not to think about your problems so we're going to think of something else emmett fox says all you have to do stop thinking about your difficulties and think about god instead so he has a bunch of beautiful statements god is with me i am a child of god i am filled and surrounded by the perfect peace of god and and he says all you have to do is repeat these to yourself throughout the day and so i kind of expounded and i have nothing's falling apart everything's falling together which i wove into our conversation yeah i have um i'm right where i'm supposed to be what's meant for me will be the more i let go the more i receive um i am filled and surrounded by the perfect peace of god i stole that one from him i was going to ask you in that sort of essay what it means to start thinking about god but what i'm hearing you say is to absorb yourself in the phrases of god bingo that's what it means to think about god and that's a a specific paragraph in the book he says if you can become so absorbed in the consideration of the spiritual things that your difficulties have vanished you've succeeded am i absorbed in the consideration of beauty am i absorbed in the consideration of gratitude am i absorbed in the consideration of love am i absorbed in the consideration of abundance am i absorbed in the consideration of breath am i absorbed in the consideration of nature or am i absorbed in the consideration of people places and things that seem to be going wrong it's that simple right so one of my golden keys is i am growing and gaining in spiritual awareness i am growing and gaining in spiritual awareness i am growing and gaining in spiritual awareness because i want that for myself yeah i want to stop growing and gaining in materialism yeah i want to stop growing and gaining in spiritual world awareness of who's got a bad attitude of how this traffic's out of place how i i i want to stop yeah i don't know how i do it yeah but the interesting part about these statements is that they have nothing to do with your circumstances needing to change only your perspective perspective it's all about perspective shift hmm where the mind goes we go what i focus on grows when i change the way i look at things the things i look at change wayne dyer wayne dyer's the best wayne dyer's the best wayne dyer's the best um and and and all that kind of stuff so that that really that really changed me but you've and and i fell in love with that this practice yeah and it rewired my mind and it gave me opportunities but i want to go back to something you said with peter crone and and how we were getting into that unknown yeah yeah please the rock that i'm chained to that's how we know it's god it's us it's us based off what we think we know it's us based off what we think we know and what we think we need and what we think we need and what we think we need or it's something different or it's something different or it's something different which is beyond our comprehension which is beyond our comprehension which is beyond our comprehension which is beyond our ability to surmise which is beyond our ability to surmise which is beyond our ability to surmise that's how you know that's that's where you that's how you know that's that's where you that's how you know that's that's where you fall in love yeah fall in love yeah fall in love yeah that's where the intimacy rocks that's where the intimacy rocks that's where the intimacy rocks your socks off because you're like holy your socks off because you're like holy your socks off because you're like holy shit this is a god personal to me this shit this is a god personal to me this shit this is a god personal to me this is a specialness in my lady my lady is a specialness in my lady my lady is a specialness in my lady my lady my little old me i let it go that this my little old me i let it go that this my little old me i let it go that this whole new world was exposed and expanded whole new world was exposed and expanded whole new world was exposed and expanded for me for me for me god meets everybody right there dude god meets everybody right there dude god meets everybody right there dude that is the place that is the place that is the place there's a quote i don't know who it's by there's a quote i don't know who it's by there's a quote i don't know who it's by but it is that you are not a religion but it is that you are not a religion but it is that you are not a religion you are not a nationality you are not a you are not a nationality you are not a you are not a nationality you are not a political political political um affiliation right you are that which um affiliation right you are that which um affiliation right you are that which comes before comes before comes before thinking and dogma and that's where we thinking and dogma and that's where we thinking and dogma and that's where we connect uh-huh connect uh-huh connect uh-huh i did not agree more it sounds like i did not agree more it sounds like i did not agree more it sounds like that's what you're saying god is it's in that's what you're saying god is it's in that's what you're saying god is it's in the absence of everything that we the absence of everything that we the absence of everything that we identify with identify with identify with and he will speak to you in your and he will speak to you in your and he will speak to you in your language he will speak to you in your language he will speak to you in your language he will speak to you in your fears in in your insecurities fears in in your insecurities fears in in your insecurities what does that mean what how has he what does that mean what how has he what does that mean what how has he spoke how does he speak to you spoke how does he speak to you spoke how does he speak to you oh oh oh you really want to know you really want to know you really want to know please how does he speak to you oh that's how he speaks to you at times oh that's how he speaks to you at times oh that's how he speaks to you at times yeah it sounds scary i just felt like doing something i've never done before on any podcast but that's a great thumbnail trust me it will be great you guys are welcome that's gonna be my gift that was not on accident it's gonna be an amazing thumbnail yeah scared the shit out of me on my nervous system we needed some breath work we can do that the that's the full that's an example of a full expression of life the fucking scariness and the laughter the blood rushing to my face the craziness that's life so i've i've gotten these little glimpses of like you you want to see you want to know oh shit that's intense yes that's life wild heartbreak joy pleasure so big hmm god has said uh god has said to me look we i whatever completely impartial don't care if you get on the ride happy to have you along should you so choose a jump on because we are going places i am going places i will take you places that are so beyond your comprehension your level of understanding and your level of understanding and your level of understanding and your level of intelligence your imagination and we do it for everybody this isn't a and then there was a little bit of a heartbreak they're like what i want to like i want it to be special for me um but god is so um equanimitous in that way so impartial in that way it's a choice jump on the ride hands up heart open and stop thinking you know where the twists and turns are stop thinking you know what to prepare for you don't and if you do you're off the ride and you didn't even know you jumped off unconsciously because you started projecting out into the future based on what you know from the past and you're not on the ride so many people aren't even on the ride they don't know what i jump on and jump off because the the ride of that embracing the mystery on the other hand is not on the ride and you're not on the ride and you're not on the other side of that is continuous vroom vroom zoom zoom don't know what to expect and you're not supposed to because if you know it's you makes me think of the saying that the moment you think you know is the moment you realize you know nothing absolutely pride comes before the fall all of that do people not express themselves fully in the world because it might come across as intimidating or weird or too much for people as in have we as humans stopped diluted constricted trapped ourselves inside of some metaphorical box as a result of the fear of the perception of looking a certain way and maybe even beyond that are we animals by nature in that we are meant to express ourselves far more wildly and freely than we are well the matrix indeed and it also just as you're thinking about that it makes me think like is the homeless person obviously freer freer yeah yeah there is that there is that conversation is the homeless person freer in the sense that they are more fully expressed than most of the people walking past them looking at them like you fucking crazy human yeah right you'll find them too this old old uh adage there's this guy hobo he's walking from one town to the next and he passes this old quaker on a cart and he says hey what what are the people like out in and this town ahead he's like i just came from the town behind me and they were all assholes and the quaker says i'm afraid you'll find them there too and then this guy working out in the he's cool to me and the quaker goes i'm afraid you'll find them there too so just a weird uh pit stop there i'm i'm sure there are some people who have chosen to really live off grid and be dirty and wear the same clothes and have transcended the human experience and just don't want to play that game but i think traditionally we look at the homeless person screaming at the bus stop screaming out imaginary you know things having an argument with somebody that's not there and we think that if we were to do that then that's who we are that it would be judged like yeah like the way you judge that person oh poor thing oh gosh that must be tough oh crazy why don't they lock that person up right that person needs help so from a standard american here we are going and having and being and trotting trotting chipping and ducking yeah the five d's yeah dip duck dive dodge yeah so here we are doing that and that person that's crazy like i can't i can't really let myself be seen and and heard and and scream and and release like that um however i'm a i'm a firm believer in somatic expression sound vibration movement ecstatic dance moaning groaning howling you know if that did it on the way over there over here what you just did i can feel a sense of freedom and space in me as a result of them that's the god vibration dude don't get me all hyped up right now you did i feel that but you just did has created a space in me in which i feel more free to express myself more holy i think that's so fucking powerful and it was an expression that maybe would be outside of what we humans have created in the norm that's what the fuck are you doing on a podcast what yeah yeah but i feel more connected to you in this conversation and inside of me there's more space for me to express myself as a result of you doing that and that's all i've ever wanted that all i've ever really craved is that connection and and so by me doing it i am having maybe that's what authenticity is maybe that's what authenticity is all i've ever wanted i have in this moment by being free by living right on the edge of comfort is environment important in that like as in have you like have you had to choose your people wisely in which the space is safe enough for you to do that or is it more of i'm gonna do this wherever the fuck i am well certain people just bring the best out of you you're one of those people that's why i like my dude i almost cried in the first three seconds 30 seconds of getting here you know this beautiful song going you had all this good energy in your face and saying i'm like ah i'm home this is my people oh wow beautiful and that's so beautiful and from from my perspective should be cherished and should be honored and and loved um but you know i'm i'm not one of those people that sides with uh you know negative energy or people that can take anything or that i can take on from anybody else i think we magnify one another for sure you know i think right when two or more are gathered that just it becomes more powerful but you know i know a lot of people they gotta like sage and do a salt scrub shower and ray this negative energy away and um i accept all vibes not just good vibes yeah you know it would be kind of ridiculous right like i can only if you think about it that way i only hang out with people who have good vibes like you have good vibes so we hang out and everybody else is you know out of place you and if if anybody's out of place in god's perfect world then then i'm the first one to be out of place it comes back to that yeah don't cast a stone and even that narrative i only hang out with people who have good vibes that in itself that statement is a bad vibe yes and it's you know and then i'm rejecting right i i unconsciously have jumped off the ride yeah because i believe this person plays a thing to be outside of the perfection i painted again yeah it makes me think of that statement that he who threatens to reject you already has he who threatens to abandon you already has he who threatens to leave you already has he who threatens to disconnect already has any statement of threat is a statement of what's already been done that's like why and why jesus said like even to wish ill will on somebody without doing it is just as bad as doing it you know to see it in your mind i want to get your perspective on this because i i heard um on the model wisdom podcast chris williamson talked about having elaine de baton on his show a who is that is that how i pronounce his name alain de baton alain de baton yes and he says this quote i think the best men are those who've been broken by life and have pulled through have come out the other end because they've been forced by circumstances to drop the illusion of their strength and power they've known that they couldn't keep that going they've hit rock bottom and they've had to reach out and say i can't cope i'm in an infantile position. I mean, men become rather glorious when that's happened to them because that's when there's true humanity. But some men, some men never get there. It's posture, posture, posture. It's defensive posture all the way. And I can spot them a mile away, the men who've been broken. He said, deep down, there's a modesty. I think people give off a sense of how much you could tell them and how much they'd be able to hear. Often it's picked up in the little things. You know, people sometimes say, how was your weekend? Was it great? Was it good? And you go, ooh, wow. That person really needs for my weekend to have gone well because they don't have much space for my weekend to have gone badly. But if someone goes, how was your weekend? There's space in that. You feel the space. I might've been crying on the bathroom floor wanting to take my life on Saturday, but Sunday things cheer up. You know, with those people, there's room for the extremity of what it is to be human. I'm just curious how you reflect on that passage, the best man being broken by life. Well, number one, I love this person, whoever they are. Number two, I receive that. I receive that. And number three, I think it can only be said about somebody. I don't think I can say that about myself. I don't think it works if I say I'm great because I've been broken. I think that that ruins it all. So that's why I received that. And I'm so glad he so eloquently put that together. And, you know, last but not least, I think it's important to say that I'm this real sense, oh, two part, two part, last but not least, this real sense of gratitude to have stopped fighting that other fight. And at the same time as I have this gratitude that that I know, I know the beauty, of that exploratory experience of just really listening to somebody's weekend and sharing that experience with them, regardless of what it is. And the second little part of that is, is like a little bit of heartbreak for those who have, who don't get that. They don't know what they're missing. What are they missing? They're missing all the marrow, all the juice, all the flavor, all the seasoning. They're getting the protein of life, you know, but they're not, they're not getting the, the juices that are so, so beautiful that it just, it helps you realize there's so much more than a flesh bag thing, you know, that there's this substance underneath it all that it's just so priceless and valuable. It's the essence of everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If we were to give that a character trait, you know, like the, they're getting the protein, but they're missing the juice. If I was to give the juice, like a character trait that is required of someone to be able to have the capacity to say, how was your weekend and have the space to hear whatever answer you have and hold. From my understanding, that character trait is self acceptance because the wider my capacity to be with me, the wider my capacity to be with you. And I noticed that my ability to be with someone else, like spans and contracts in accordance with how much capacity I have to be with me. Yeah. And the more I've integrated and brought compassion to even the parts of me that I'm most ashamed of, it seems to be that simultaneously my capacity for another expands. And I notice it so simply in the ability that I have to hold eye contact with somebody. When I'm in moments where I feel like I'm asking someone, how was your day? And I can't look at them. I can tell immediately. I, there's something that I'm protecting. I can't look at them. I can tell immediately, there's something that I'm protecting. Inside of me. There's something that I'm holding onto that I'm afraid that this person and the world will see. And as a result, I can't, I'm not here right now. I'm not for energetically. I'm not here physically. I'm here, but energetically I'm somewhere else. And it seems to me that that spice, that spice, that, that is the secret spice of life. That if I could spice, spice, if someone was to ask me like, what would be a code that you could implant into anyone? It's like E.T. It's like E.T. What does it, what does he say in E.T.? Precious. You are my precious. That's a Gollum. That's a Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings. Precious. No, but if someone was to ask me if I could download a piece of code into every human on earth, what would it be? It would be self-acceptance. Wow. You know how me, pa, opened something in you when, when you shared that, my gut just dropped. My, my gut went boom. So I got, I, my diet, my whole diaphragm relaxed. It was powerful. Thank you. That was really cool. Oh, wow. Thank you. Yeah. The gift. I feel like I can only share that as a result of the absence of self-acceptance that I've had for me for so long. And it seems as though I'll run this race and I'll get the protein of life. And eventually I realized like, fuck, I'm not tasting this at all. I'm just getting it in because I feel like I have to. Getting my days in because I feel like I have to. And then days become weeks and weeks become weeks. And then I'm like, I'm not tasting this at all. I'm just getting it in months and months become years. And I realize, you know, I broke down last week after a breathwork session, realizing how much of this life have I missed. And I'd like to think I'm still more connected than most human beings, you know, and how much of this life have I missed as a result of the absence of self-acceptance. Yeah. Yeah. Would you add any other ingredient? What would your ingredient be? Welcome to the journey, man. Well, to just expound a bit on yours, you know, I refer to those things as the hollow, the hollow bone. The hollow bone. The hollow bone. Yeah. I mean, well, it's just an old spiritual euphemism that means that your vessel is empty enough to receive, right? The most important, Buddhists say the most important part of a vessel is the emptiness inside. Wow. Right? And we, as humans, bedazzle our vessels and, you know, it's the handle and it's the decoration and it's the spout, the perfect spigot. And there were the top, you know, it's, it's, it's, what can you carry? You know? And one of my mentors that I love dearly, he, he always says, I've got so much of me and me that I can't experience you or God or the moment. How much of me is in me? So in that self-acceptance, that's, I feel like where we really get hollow, where we empty vessel. And I, we're, we're, you can carry as much as you go to the ocean with, right? If you go with a thimble, you bring back a thimble worth. If you go with a 50 gallon drum, you get 50 gallons of that water. So how deep am I, am I excavating, you know, in that self-acceptance? How, how much do I really, how much space can I really hold? You know, how much acceptance do I really have? Yeah. It's a never ending journey. That's you, you, you explained it in the breath work. There's, it's, it's, that's it. It's not a, it's not a result. It's not a peak. It's not an apex. It's nowhere. It's nowhere outside of me. That's what brought me, that's what got me emotional was like me in the same space. I haven't left this space over the course of an hour. I'm a different human being right now. I've tapped into a different space and the perspective with which I'm viewing myself in life is different. And I want to touch this space so much more than I do so much more than I do. And then at the very same time, the question becomes, do I want to touch this space so much more than I do? Or is it only beautiful because I know it's the, the sacred inconvenience of spiritual amnesia? Why do I keep forgetting? Exactly. If I've been questioning that myself recently, like, because it's so beautiful every time I remember, because it, is it designed like that? And if I just always remembered that it wouldn't, wouldn't be as beautiful, be as beautiful. There's some things we can figure out and there's some things we're just never gonna. And, and I think that's one of those beautiful things we're not meant to figure out because I would love to be there all that time. But here's the thing. It is there all the time. I cannot touch it anymore because I am it. Yes. I know, you know, and so do I. Welcome to this weaving in and out of, we come back in, oh, yes. We are not a self. Self is a noun. We are a being. Being is a verb. We get lost in the nouning of life or verbing. We are not a being. We are a being. We are a being. We are a being. We are a being. We are a being. We are a long-lasting separate entity. We are it. It is us. there is no self to get rid of, right? It doesn't exist. It's an illusion. There is only that which is the suchness of life. It makes me think of like when we're just talking about like wanting to touch into that space more consistently, the thing that's in the way of it is the wanting. Or the belief that anything is preventing us from. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah, wanting. Like any statement of want is a statement of lack. Meaning it signifies that it's not there. And the moment that I stop being in the experience and start thinking about the want or the desire to touch into this more consistently is the same moment that the experience starts to leave me. Because now I'm not in it. Now I'm thinking about how to hold on to it. And it seems the same in any relationship, any job, any experience of life. The more we grasp onto it, the moment we grasp is the moment it leaves. It's like, it sounds like, it feels like the most, like the most beautiful gesture for life is an open palm. Because the moment we try and clench onto the thing, the very thing leaves. A mentor of mine once had me do this. He said, I was on a Zoom call with him. And he said, put your hands out. And I put my hands out and he said, how much space right now do you have to hold things in your hands? I said, quite a bit of space. And he said, now clench your fists. He said, if I tried to put something in your hand right now, what would happen? It'd fall right off. He said, exactly. When you clench your fists, life can't give you anything. Exactly. But if you keep an open palm, you have the space to hold it all. Yeah. Oh my God, I started crying. It was so fucking beautiful. The more I let go, the more I receive. Right? That's what it is. When I, I'll go into rehabs and I say, there's almost always a couch. And I say, throw me that pillow. Throw me that pillow. All the pillows and a cup. I got a cup hanging in my pinky and I'm holding all this stuff. I said, okay, now hand me the secret to life. Give me some love. Give me a tool that's going to help me feel better. And I'm like, and people are like, we can't. You're full. You know? It's the same thing, man. You know? The more I let go, the more I can receive. Yeah. If I'm holding on, if I'm, I've got too much of me in me. If I stuff a guitar full of rocks, sand, how's it going to sound? Can't play the music. Yeah. You can't. If I stick a bunch of, you know, pebbles in a flute. It's I, we, I got to, we, we, we are all divine instruments. Part of the one song, the universe. I think we, the uni-uno verse song, the one part of the one song. We're all, we're all those instruments and nothing is playing out of tune. We just got too much of us. Hmm. The illusion of us. The illusion of self-centeredness. Hmm. Because there is no self. Hmm. You know? The illusion of the trauma. Remember we talked about trauma last time? I thought, I thought on that a little bit and I said, what, what is, trauma, trauma is quite literally a thing of the past. Get the play on words there? Trauma is a thing of the past. Thing of the past. You know, when they say like, you know, oh, that's a thing of the past. Like we don't, that's, that's done and over. Oh, that's a thing of the past, but it is also a thing of the past trauma present day. If it has any power over me, it is a thing from the past, but it's also meant to be a thing of the past. And I've been dealing with some injuries lately, you know, like shoulder stuff and some back stuff and getting all this work done on these like legal issues. Hmm. And I've been dealing with some injuries lately, you know, like shoulder stuff and getting all this work done on these like legal issues. And tendons that are all scarred up, they're all adhesed, you know, and sure I injured my shoulder a long time ago, but I have these little, these calcium deposits, you know, I got this, this stuff that's all bound up, even though I hurt myself a long time ago, all the protective mechanisms that my body did to protect from that injury, the scar tissue that it created to, to prevent it from getting worse. Hmm. Now I got to work through those. Hmm. And I think trauma is, is like that. Hmm. There are emotional deposits, residue, buildup of scar tissue, emotional scar tissue. Yeah. That we can massage out. Hmm. We have to give it permission to, to let the, the whole shoulder work in the way it wants. Hmm. You don't have to let that protective mechanism of the, the residue, the emotional bondage of all the supporting components. Yeah. Of the characters in our emotional state of. Yeah. And we can massage those out. Yeah. Can trauma come out merely as a result of changing the inputs and the environment that you choose to surround yourself with? And what I mean by that is you ever seen the, the, like the glass analogy where if you put mud in a glass, right, you either, you dump out, you either dump out the mud. Hmm. But the other way to get the mud out is to pour clear water in it. And eventually the mud comes out. Yeah. Is that true for trauma too? That's how I wash all my dishes at home, by the way. I have. Me too. That hates it. Like it takes me way longer, but I don't want to touch it. I was like, can I get it all out of the bowl just by, just through the water? Well, I got, I turned my, I turned my, uh, water heater to like the max. So my, my water is like near boiling. Like it will burn the crap out of your hand. So I just like let the hot water. Do it the same way. I might do a little scrubby scrub. I'm the same. Uh, that's so funny. Um, squirrel, but, um, yeah, I, I, I, I have seen, you know, people and it comes back to what you mentioned earlier. Can I, can I be safe enough? Can I feel safe enough to express, to, to let go, to emote? Can I feel safe enough to do something that's scary? And yes. And yes, environment set and setting can be an invitation, um, can, can help, uh, soften those barriers, those, those boundaries. Um, but I also believe a big part of what people carry is identification, right? It's the story is identifying with my, my, it's mine. Is it, is it yours or is it just. Is it just trauma or is it my trauma, my fear, my, my, my depression. It's my depression. How many, how you ever going to let it go? If it's yours, you know, what if it's not yours? What if it's just depression? And what if we can start to untangle that attachment to it just by saying, just, just by calling it depression. Instead of my depression. Hmm. Well, I just have same thing, right? Need to work on my, we, we talked about it earlier. I need to work on my depression. So there's a lot of ownership there. There's a lot of re connecting subconsciously to the experience. There's a lot of inking that into the journal deeper. So no matter how many pages you turn, it's still there. You're trying to write a new story and it's just, yeah, that's normal. That's okay. That, that happens in the tangible world and it happens in the intangible world. Yeah, we have w w it's, it's okay. But what if I could just start to not call it my trauma and just an experience, you know, and did you enjoy that experience? No. It sounds like in that space now, the invitation is responsibility and the challenge for people to stop identifying with the trauma and the reason they keep doing it. Calling it my traumas, because by calling it my trauma, I don't have to take responsibility for a new outcome. Absolutely. By calling it my depression. I don't have to take responsibility. Because it's happening to me. It's happening. It's not happening through me. It's one of my golden keys. Nothing is happening to me. Everything happens through me. Now. I did not believe that when I started saying it. I didn't believe it. I mean, on paper, it makes sense, but my visceral experience now far different now, but I didn't, I wasn't enjoying that and that hadn't really helped me or it had gotten me so far and I wanted to go further. I wanted to go beyond that. So I just started telling myself that nothing is happening to me. Everything is happening through me. And I started believing it because thoughts become feelings, you know, you start to notice. Yeah. Oh, that, that the traffic, you know, we'll just blow hanging fruit. I, I feel like this traffic is preventing me from getting where I'm supposed to go on time. And the traffic is out of place in the world. It's happening to me. Right. This is like essentially megalomania. If you want to be honest. Yeah. Right. That the forces of nature, that things are against you. Yeah. the center of the universe. And so anyway, nothing's happening to me. Everything's happening through me. Provides an opportunity. Oh, if it's not happening to me, holy shit, I have that really important three or four really important phone calls I need to make. And I have this extra six minutes to do those. I forgot. Oh man, there's that podcast I wanted to finish. There's all these beautiful opportunities that happen when the world stops happening to you and things start happening through you. You start to have choices. And once you experience choice, you like it, you love more. So then that starts to become now this feeling. You're like, oh, I feel. I feel when things aren't happening to me, they're happening through me. I feel it. And then when you feel it, if you can, feel it a few times, it becomes a belief system. The message is in the mess means you touch, you stopped touching hot stoves because you experienced that pain enough times that you don't do it. When the student's ready, the master appears. You're always ready, by the way. You're always ready. But when you decide to allow, that pain, when I decide to allow that frustration, that anxiety to really show me don't touch the stove. And until you're ready to not grab rose bushes by the, by the stem, you have yet to learn the lesson and you'll continue to be poked. And that's okay because it's a necessary, beautiful lesson. Yeah. This has been an unbelievable gift. My final question for you is the following. We had an amazing conversation last time. The fear from both of us in different moments was that we wouldn't touch this, that space and we wouldn't be able to replicate it. My perspective is that we've gone 10 times deeper and that we've touched into a space that even we didn't go last time. That was the warmer. My question for you though, is, um, last time you drove up to LA, this time you drove down to San Diego, we lost the footage last time and you didn't have to come back and do this again. And you did, and I love you for it. Why did you come back? Many reasons. Um, number one, I feel your heart. I feel your heart and I deeply respect your mission and you haven't even told it to me, right? I feel it. You don't need to tell me. I feel it. And, um, I also see, uh, gifts that you carry and I want to be, a part of fanning that ember. I want to be, I want to bathe in that, that blaze of yours. And you've also brought incredible things out of me. And I feel that it's, it's a symbiotic relationship. And anytime you can sit down with somebody who brings the best out of you, challenges you, adds depth to that's, that's the spice. That's the spice. And, um, yeah, I'm sick of settling for just the protein, man. I want, I want the juice and, and we get the juice together. Thank you. It's an occurrence that I haven't had too often in my life in which I do feel that symbiosis and someone who simultaneously brings the best out of me. And so I hope many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many others get to experience that medicine that you give up bringing the best out of them. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Because especially in a world inundated with clips and, you know, bullshit and let's talk about the dirt just to get the views. Your, your authenticity is, is needed, but also very, very cherished. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Jeremy, honestly, the, your level of vulnerability and obviously the topic that we seem to have covered in every part of the conversation today, authenticity, um, and the willingness for, you know, that's that magnitude of expression was an aspect of vulnerability to express yourself in that way. And if I feel as though that almost allowed for such beautiful threads, you know, they were there before, but I could feel a shift in that moment. And I want to just thank you for not showing up here ever. And in the context of our relationship within and beyond the camera with anything to hide, you know, it's a really magical thing. And I think is the reason that I feel so comfortable. And as a result, so much gold can come through the both of us, um, in this conversation. So thank you so much. I love you, brother. I love you too. Thank you. Cheers.