0112 | The Farmhouse, part 2

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And I want to remind you that you don't have to talk to us. Do you understand that? Right. All right. And if you choose to talk to us, it must be limited to things that are unrelated to some ethical in you. Right. Okay. How are you feeling today? Yeah. Last time we talked about competency and you had some more questions about that, I just want to confirm that you have any doubts about your competency or ability to-- No. --to understand what I'm saying. No. I'm more sane than most Americans. All right. I just asked you that to make sure that you don't-- I got you. --that you don't feel that you're here today. Nobody twisted my arm on. That's fine. Volunteerily? Yes. All right. Are you under the influence of anything? Any drugs? Well, caffeine, now, fortunately. Other than the one cup of coffee you have in front of you, Israel. Doll, fine. OK. Thanks for covering that with me. All right. Let me give you a few updates, OK? OK. I'm responding to the couriers. I think we told you this, but I wanted to make sure, because I wasn't sure the federal car jacking is a federal crime. So if you take someone in their car, you car jack them. Right. It's a federal crime. It results in the death of another person that is a death penalty, eligible case, meaning the maximum penalty could be the death penalty. Right. All right. And that's the courier case. And in this case, of course, you told us that you took their car and you took them in their own car. Yeah. And then you took them to the pharmacy. You killed them there. So that would be federal jurisdiction. I want to confirm that with you and make sure you understood that. OK. OK. All right. They're still working in Vermont. The FBI is still working on that part of the search for the bodies. And they're doing what they need to do, OK? But they found them. Well, I don't have an update today on where they've been on that, but they're still looking for them. All right. [MUSIC PLAYING] This is True Crime Bullshit. I'm your host, Josh Hallmark. And this is a serialized story of Israel keys. Two years following Israel's Tupper Lake trip, he returned to the area to use his buried kill kit on the couriers. On June 2nd, 2011, he boarded a flight from Anchorage to Chicago. Upon his arrival in Chicago, he rented a car and drove approximately 1,000 miles to Essex, Vermont by way of his mother's home in Harlem, Indiana and his abandoned family home in Constable, New York. I'm not sure if I'm-- yeah, I don't want to talk about anything that happened before the couriers, before the date of the couriers. I won't talk about anything before that. This is something Israel would say multiple times throughout his many discussions with the FBI about this trip and the couriers. And at first, it didn't make much sense to me. He'd already and continued to discuss many events that occurred prior to the couriers, including the Tupper Lake robbery. It was the aftermath of the courier's deaths and Israel's ensuing travels, however, that would become the focal point of the FBI's investigations and negotiations with both keys and law enforcement agencies and DA's offices. The murder of the couriers would be far from the last indignity they'd suffer at the hands of keys. And I think I went out and got the drain on out of the trunk of the car and garbage bags. And took that stuff down to the basement. And by then, I'm pretty sure the guy was dead. But when I moved him, he was just air coming out of the lungs. But he was-- there was like a groan or a sound or something. So I was thinking that-- at first, I was thinking, well, how can he still be alive? But then I realized it, just because he made a noise. It didn't mean he was alive. I don't think he was alive. And yeah, he was heavy. He was probably over 200 pounds. He was kind of in the middle of the basement. There was a lot of blood on the floor. And I think I grabbed him by the legs and pulled him back. I think he was wearing sandals, too. I think I took his sandals off and threw him in the garbage bag I had down there and dragged him back to the corner of the basement and then bagged him up. And then she was quite a bit easier to move. She was over by the stairway to the down stairs, but I just dragged her over and bagged her up. They were right, like side by side when I left here. And after I had the bags on, I pulled the bags back. And dumped a gallon of that drain on each of the bodies, mostly on the hands and the chest and face areas, because he had been-- yeah, I'm not sure. The drain was overkill, but I was thinking I was going to stop and check on him on my way back through, but I guess I kind of-- it was daylight when I drove back through that area and I didn't want to stop at the house. I didn't want anybody to see me at the house in case they found the bodies or something. But I guess I was curious to see what the drain I was going to do, so that's what I was thinking of. I dumped it on him and then pulled the bags back over. But before I had it, before I did that, I took everything off of her. I had my side cutters and I cut the cable ties and handcuffs and duct tape and all that stuff off of her. And so I think the only thing that I can see is the little shorts on the toes in and bagged everything up and thought about trying to round up all the shell casings that were all over the basement, but it was too big of a mess. So I just gave up on that and just figured I'd throw the bolt of the gun away too, and I had him back in the corner and there was all kinds of trash over on the other side of the basement, like shelves, old shelves, and duct tape, mostly wood, debris, and stuff, and by then, it was too late in the morning. I didn't want to torch the house because there were too many people going by there. Fire department probably would have been there anyway. So I just decided just to pile all that stuff on top of them and hope that nobody found them right away. And that's what I did, and by the time I left it was-- yeah, I don't know what time it was. It was light out. As far as we know, simply abandoning two people where he'd killed them was entirely uncharacteristic of keys in his methodology. He's become known as a killer who makes people disappear. Leaving two dead bodies in a basement of a farmhouse on a busy road seemed. sloppy, but as he would go on with the details of the days following his murder of Lorraine and Bill, he'd shed even more light on his methodology. He was erratic, unplanned, reckless, and perhaps this was indicative of him losing control over time, or maybe it was something else entirely. Remember how I got, there was that bag of stuff, so I parked the car at home depot, somehow I got that big trash bag full of all their clothes and the drain of bottles and stuff, somehow I got that back over to the hotel, I may have driven their car back to the hotel and thrown that in the trunk of my car and then driven their car back over, I remember when I parked the car in the store parking lot, there was the only thing in it was stuff that had belonged to them, like the suitcase full of their, like just laying stuff like Lorraine, stuff like that, and then after I had all my stuff packed up the hotel, I checked out at the hotel, it was probably around 8 or so, and drove down the road, there was either a Walgreens or a CBS pharmacy right across from a bank and the only people there were their car was parked, and I left my rental car there in that pharmacy parking lot and walked across the street, and didn't really have a disguise on at that point, I think I, that's why they got that description of somebody that's along here driving the car because I think all I had was my gloves and some glasses drove that car, drove their car up north and only made it about halfway and then I started just like a whole, a whole bunch of things that I realized that the car had issues, and I think it was also almost out of gas, and I was still really, and I didn't really trust myself throughout the bank because I hadn't slept all night and I was kind of shaky, so I decided to scratch that, I was thinking I would just park the car, I was going to torch the car, there was an area down, back down where I buried the guns from before in Vermont, and I was going to drive their car down there and torch it after the bank robberies, but then for some reason I was thinking I could still use the car, I was going to go up to Maine and chill out for a few days and then come back through Vermont, and I was thinking if the car was still there then I would take the car and maybe still do some bank robberies with it and then torch it, but by the time I got back I was going to police very found it, so that was pretty much it, I went up to Maine, had their cell phones with me, there was people calling them and I had their card information and stuff, but you know there were people calling them, the phones were turned on, the phones were, their phones were on, it was their work calling them, I remember I looked through, so only one of the cell phones was working and at least if what they told me was true they said the other one was like emergency calls only or something in the plan was expired, but there was one cell phone they had that was working, it seems like it wasn't a very good one and it seems like it didn't have text messaging, and so when their work started calling I thought about answering the phone and telling the person what was going on and it was a kidnap even that they're giving the account information, but then I just decided I didn't want to talk to anybody on the phone, if their phone had text messaging I probably wouldn't have done that, but it seems like it didn't, so I drove, started heading up to Maine, I think I was on the interstate and I was at a rest area somewhere and then I realized I should probably turn the phones off, or yeah because the one phone I had in the front with me, I had forgot about the other phone I had in the back of the car in the suitcase, the one that wasn't supposedly working, but the one I had with me, it rang a few times on the drive and I finally just took the battery out of it, but the other one it didn't occur to me that it might still be able to track where it was picking up service or whatever, so I didn't think of that till I got to Maine, I drove straight through, I think I was up for about 30 hours on that one, because I sucked all the night before obviously, but I was, yeah I think I got to Maine, I was pretty tired and then it dawned on me that other phone was still on, so I parked alongside the road somewhere in Maine and I was digging through the suitcase and found it and took the battery out of that one too and then drove the rest of the way up to Maine, I think my brothers knew that, I think my brothers knew I had a rough night or something because I was pretty out of it by the time I got up there, I don't really even remember what I did when I got to Maine, I think I just hung out with my brother who lived in Bangor, maybe crashed on his couch for a while, and then we had a bunch of work to do on that I wanted to do on the farm up there, so we went up north to the farm and it's like 140 acres that my dad had bought in upstate Maine, it's like a maple farm type thing, and there used to be a house, there's a house burned down and there's still a barn, so whenever I would go to Maine, we would usually head up north and camp out in the barn, they had part of the barn converted into like a crash pad or something, and so we crashed there and there was a party that night, a bunch of my brother's friends came over, and I don't remember how it was seemed like I was only there for a few days, we were working on the place and then I was driving, as I was driving back down to Vermont, I had mellowed out and I was starting to decide like plan what I was going to do next and stopped at that park, the National Forest in New Hampshire, yeah for some reason I was still really amped up, there was this parking lot up in that place in Hampshire, there was a white dodgy knee on it, it had just married, written on the back window, and there was this young couple who were hanging out down by the river, and I was watching them for a while, I was after I'd gone up, I decided at that point that I wasn't going to do the ransom thing, I didn't think it would work that well anyway because I didn't have a picture, all I had was their cell phones, I didn't think it was going to be worth it, so I just decided to burn the suitcases and all that stuff, so I went up in the woods there in the Hampshire and on my way back down I saw this couple down the river, I remember what I was thinking I was thinking, the guy I had, the 22, I was like well I don't know, I'm going to have to throw the barrel on the bolt to a anyway, I should use it again, but there was fortunately for that couple, there was a park ranger, I didn't see him but I saw his truck so I figured he was out in the woods somewhere, I didn't want to take the risk that he came walking out of the woods or something, so yeah, I just hung out there and watched him for a while and then I went, started driving back to Vermont, here's what we know about Israel keys from his own conversations with the FBI, killing people or as he likes to say in a sad attempt to minimize his actions, taking people, really amped him up, and when he was amped up, he made mistakes, he lost control, things got sloppy, in his taking of the careers he lost control of them multiple times, each of them escaped at different times throughout the course of the attack, he barely cleaned up the crime scene, he was seen in their car in multiple places throughout the night, and his departure from Essex was nothing short of chaotic, even his retelling of these events is erratic, sometimes repetitive, sometimes contradictory, and it's one of the few times where he seems genuinely disappointed in himself, Dr. Ramzlin previously mentioned that she believes were it not for them appearing in his internet history, the Israel never would have admitted to the careers, because it was a botched job, there was a murder he wasn't proud of. And I had visions of me going way up North of Burlington, and bringing down with a car full of cash. So I decided maybe that that wasn't the best time to do it and just drove back towards Burlington, parked the car in some apartment complex. Yeah, why did you choose that place to park it? It was within walking distance of the hotel. I didn't see any cameras in the parking lot. I probably could have found a better place. I didn't really think that part through very well. I remember thinking after like a day or two after I'd left the car that I was thinking what the cops planned it, because I didn't want to stay in Burlington for another night. Originally I was planning on, like if I had robbed the banks, I would have planned on staying in Burlington in a different hotel that night. And then taking their car down to, there's a park by the river down by where I buried the guns. And I was going to take whatever car I stole down there and torch it. Not in New York, I mean down in Burlington by the river. Yeah, Burlington. There's a river, yeah, right there in Burlington, not far from the hotel I was in. And that's where the gun was buried. Yeah. But when I just, when the bank thing didn't happen, I decided I wasn't really going to worry about torching the car. But then when I was up in Maine, I started thinking about it. I was like, well why didn't I stay there and just torch the car just to be on the safe side? I started getting paranoid because I hadn't, I hadn't, I mean I wore gloves the whole time I was driving the car, but I wasn't wearing a hat and I had really long hair at the time and I was thinking they could easily find some of my hair and get a DNA and eventually tie it back to me. So I was thinking, well to be on the safe side, I really should have torched that car anyway. And so I decided to take the same route back for Maine and just drive by the complex and see if I figured if they hadn't found the car I would have stayed in Burlington that night and gone and picked it up and torched it that night. But when I drove by the complex, I saw that there was crime scene tape where the car had been so I was like, okay that answers that question, they found the car. And it wasn't his meticulous planning and ability to make people disappear that prevented the couriers from being found. It was dumb luck. Alright, since we last met, we've been following up on what you told us about the couriers. And I want to let you know that the farmhouse where you left the bodies of Bill and Lauren Courier, it has been demolished when the FBI went out that they've had been demolished. But starting today, they are going to be doing excavation on that farmhouse. So when they went there, as I understand it, I wasn't there but it was God. But they're going to be doing it. Yes, I spoke too soon on that one. Well no I think I don't think you spoke too soon. If you remember, you gave us that information because it was a way to move us forward. Right. So, well that and I figured they would have been found pretty soon but I didn't know it had been demolished so. Well, we didn't either. We didn't either. Where is real. Where is real. Okay. But at least you know we didn't know that, right? Yes. So, and I'm telling you that I'm not going to hide it from you. I could have come here today and said thanks and never mentioned that it was demolished. I want you to know that, okay? All right. All right. So, it's been demolished. Starting today, they're excavating the site. I don't know what they're going to find but we'll let you know, okay? They probably just filled it in. That's possible. It's going to be in the bodies unless they got moved around and they demolished it. They're going to be in the southeast corner of the basement. Okay. And I know there are plastic bags you described to us. So, how many plastic bags should they be looking for? Four. All right. The bodies were completely covered and they were underneath a lot of debris that I plied on top of them like wood and trash. Anything particular, any large item if they're excavating what would they look for? Along the back wall of the basement, there was a big built-in shelf unit made out of wood. I'm guessing if they demolished it the way they do most buildings back there, they probably just tore off the top part of the house and then filled in the bottom and called it good. So, the bodies, unless they, if they had bothered to pull everything out of the basement, they probably would have found them. So, I'm guessing they just buried everything where it was, which means the body should still be in that back. So, the corner facing the road, the east corner facing the road. And I don't know the details, but we're going to know more about them. I'm sure the foundation is still there, I mean, once the bodies were right on the slab, so once they get to the slab on the basement, they'll find them down there. Okay. Well, we'll let you know. We're just going to tell you whatever they find. Really dumb luck. And you were also in your last meeting talking about the house, the career house and maybe had some concerns about whether we had the right one and what was the status of that investigation. Right. Well, do you have the photo of the house? I've got. Free. Yeah, the short version is real, is that I know that we have the right house. I don't have the photos from the actual search when I went out and searched the area where the house had been demolished and stuff. The best I can do right now is pull up some photos off of the internet to show you the house that we searched, which I'm very confident is the right one. I'm going to explain to you why. The short version is, as you know, we don't have the careers bodies in hand yet. The house was demolished. We thought that they were probably in the basement when the house was demolished. They didn't wind up being the case. Among other things, we had Canaver dogs out there. They alerted on the same corner of the basement, the southeast corner of the basement that you told us about. So they alerted there. We talked to a number of folks on the demolition crew, I think it was about three or four folks on the demolition crew. And they all ironically said, "Yeah, we smelled this for a load or smelled it essentially like a dead body or dead animal, that type of thing, I don't know who you talked to." And yet none of them, most of our shock and awe decided it might be a good idea to go in and walk through the house. So apparently they didn't do that, otherwise the bodies would have been discovered. They just went ahead with their demolition. I don't know why they did that, it doesn't matter. But they did. We went, we did some additional research on how the house was demolished. It was very similar to what you described in one of the interviews a while back, by the way. And our best guess, frankly, is they were using a huge crane to basically excavate the site and stuff and go ahead and basically pick up the better part of half a dumb truckload of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, huge. And our bucket. Our best guess at this point in time is Murphy's Law. They scooped up the bags without basically splitting them open, that type of thing, and put them in the dumb truck. We tracked them down to the dump in Vermont. And we actually have folks there right now today searching it. And we've got it narrowed down to a pretty small area of the debris that debris was taken from that house. And up? Wow. They got their work cut out for them. Okay. And we were able to match those to have them slayer found at the scene. So we do have a connection to the scene and to the curators and stuff. And we've been able to corroborate the information that you're giving us on this. It's just not going as quickly or as smoothly as you would all like. And frankly, the way that it usually goes in most cases is just not going that well every time. Every once in a while there's a hiccup. And so now that the people out there in Vermont are in the dump and they're looking for your black bags, you know. So I think you told us four bags, are these separate bags or you put the bag on the bottom and the bag on the top? Yeah. That's how it was. Separate bags or bag on the top. I mean, would they? Two bags on each body. Okay. That's what I thought you'd said. How did you secure them? I mean, I don't think they were as secure. I may have not had them on top, like not of the two bags together. I mean, the main reason I had for putting the bag on was just so that people wouldn't, they would have to actually pull the bag off to see what it was in. And also to hold the drain on the bodies, I had some drain on that I brought with me. Okay. So when they're looking for these, if there's any, if it was, they're just, did you just remember them? No. So they're looking. So they're intact. So if we find partial, we need to keep looking to find them. Yeah, they're shit there. I'm guessing it sounds like they brought in a big excavator or something. I'm still so happy. It sounds like a really big one. Yeah. Yeah, it would have had to have been a really big one because, like I say, the bags weren't tied together. So it seems like it would have been the bodies, but although it's only, it's been less than a year. So the bodies probably weren't even, you know, they were probably only about halfway to skeletal. So they're probably even with all the moisture that the bags will trap and stuff. Well, it depends how busy the bugs got, but what you put the drain on there? That would be the drain? Yeah. What's that for? The drain was an idea. I had, in case they were found right away, I didn't want there to be any DNA on the outside of the bodies. Oh. Does that sound? I heard that the lie in the drain, it destroys like scrambles up all the DNA. I don't know. And also it was, I was thinking to keep it like, if you leave it on the sock, like if you leave the drain, I was using it, I'd used it before and I noticed that they got splashed on me and it'll actually burn through your skin if you leave it on there wrong enough. So that was the other thought I had that it would start the decomposition and they would break them down a little bit faster, keep them from bloating and stuff. And you didn't tape the bag shut at all or do anything. No, I know they weren't taped. They're possibly knotted. Would they be knotted with a zip tie or a zip tie? No. They may have been, seems like the bags might have been the kind with the flaps. Like extended portions of the bag on the top of the mouth of the bag to be used to tie together. So what I may have done is pulled them together at the waist, at the torso and then just done a knot on top. But I don't think I did. It was dark and I was in a hurry at that point. So it's more like early in the morning, how close was it to getting daylight? It was daylight. It was probably about six in the morning when I had everything wrapped up. Welcome to LoneStarCasino, a free to play winners, paradise, pack with pure excitement and all the biggest thrills right at your fingertips. Claim your welcome reward today. Visit LoneStarCasino.com for more details and download our app. LoneStarCasino is a free to play social casino board with prohibitiveism LoneStarCasino.com for more details and download the app. And as a team of more than a dozen people sifted through the Coventry landfill looking for the courier's remains, keys continued talking about his frenzied attempts to cover up his crime and flee the scene. And the more he talked, the more he revealed about himself and his other crimes. It had long been suspected that keys would cover up crimes and destroy bodies by setting fires. And here he was admitting to, at the very least, planning to do exactly that with the couriers and the farmhouse. Well, I'm asking because you mentioned with the couriers that you were going to go back this month or next month in the burn down that house. Yeah, I knew there was, when I picked that house in Vermont, I knew first of all that it wasn't salvageable and that whoever was looking at the property probably wasn't going to be looking at it, looking at it for the house. So I knew there was a good chance, even if I didn't have time or opportunity to burn it while I was there, then there was a good chance they wouldn't be found, at least not right away. And that's the way it worked out. It was getting light out and that's a really busy road and the house was right on the road. So I didn't want to set it on fire when everybody was going to work, plus it had been pouring rain the night before and the house had a big leak in there so there was water all over the floor and a couple of the rooms. So that's why I had the garbage bags with me and that was the backup plan just to hide them there and then I mean I knew I was going to be going back through that area again and figured that would be a better time to burn it like a year or so later. And I also had considered that there was a good chance that whoever bought the property or who was selling it would do me the favor of doing it for me, which is actually what happened. I didn't really expect, but something I did consider that they would either push the house down or the owner would torture themselves. So plus it's not, I mean if you go into an old farmhouse and smell something dead that's not really that unusual. He also confirmed another long held belief. He would return to the scenes of his crimes, sometimes days later and sometimes even years later. And when he did eventually return to Essex, he realized the cops were taking the couriers disappearance seriously. They'd already found and seized their car and the case was beginning to get media attention. So he fled the scene and returned to New York. I was reading the articles about their disappearance and sure enough, there was quite a bit in there about their disappearance. I think it was clear that the police already suspected the worst because they had the family do. They did a press conference and a family, I guess they didn't appeal to the public or appeal to the kidnappers or whatever and I didn't see that until later but I saw I read about it in the paper so I just decided to, it was better to get out of Vermont and go back to New York. So I went back to New York and hung out for their, hung out there for a day or two and that's when I found that little boat launch and I did some fishing there and decided that was a good spot to draw off the guns. And just north of Tupper Lake, keys found the Blake Falls Reservoir where he submerged the courier's gun and just yards away in the woods, he reburied his Vermont kill kit. This would be one of only two of his kill kits ever recovered. And actually, he didn't bury it at all. He wedged it between two boulders and then surrounded it with rocks and brush. Israel would then spend the next two nights in the Tupper Lake Constable area, obsessing over the media attention that the courier's disappearance was getting and for the first time ever, he was enjoying it. He even started thinking of ways to garner more publicity in future crimes. Well with the courier's or that time frame, I guess I was starting to want publicity maybe for some of the stuff I did. Maybe I kept telling myself that wasn't why I was doing that that way but I think that might have been part of it because I started to get hooked on it a little bit as far as checking up on the news. So when I first decided to do something in Vermont, that's why I was looking at churches because I had plans that whoever I was going to take was either going to end up in the church and leave them there for whoever went to the church that weekend to find or I was going to, you know, burn the church within a minute. You mentioned publicity but that's not the way it started, is that what you're saying to me? It changed the publicity. Yeah, I definitely got carried away with the publicity aspect of it. My entire goal up until the courier thing was to stay under the radar and not have there being, I mean, for a lot of the stuff that was before that, I couldn't even find stories on, there wasn't anything. Really? You couldn't find anything on it? Well, I mean, was there a time to go one day thing maybe but not certainly not somebody that went on for a year or months or whatever? And the couriers was big news from what it sounded like? Well, big news for that area. Yeah, I think that's when it started. Just kept checking back on the story and kind of getting a kick out of the different things that the investigators would say. Knowing if they're right or wrong. And then? Or knowing if they're wrong? Do you like that? Yeah. And seeing the difference, because obviously, I mean, I know what happened, seeing the difference from their perspective versus my perspective and then on top of that, when people would read the news story and then they're, you know, everybody wants to comment on it like there, theories of what happens. And so I got really hooked on that too, because it was entertaining to me, I guess. Did you join in any of those? Did you comment? Yeah. On the couriers? Yeah. This is one of Key's conversations that's creeped me out the most on this journey. The idea that he was following the media attention and conversations around his crimes so closely that he was reading people's opinions and chatting with people online about his murders. That in any given true crime Facebook group at any time, a murderer could be gawking chatting or trolling people is so entirely unnerving but it was something else he said that completely reshaped how I saw this trip. Something that gave me a new perspective on how sloppy he was on how seemingly uncharacteristic his actions were which guns did you have with you when you were going up to work at the banks I had I well when I went to look at the banks I had just the two that I was going to rob the bank with because I was in their car I didn't really have much of my stuff in their car there was their suitcase in the trunk of their car and it had a bunch of other stuff it had like some laundry I took from her house and jewelry it had like miscellaneous stuff I think maybe the gun that I took all that stuff was in the trunk of their car in a suitcase I think I had thrown in a couple of their suitcases and the gun you may be talking about the gun you threw in the gun I took from their house I threw that in the reservoir as well yeah that was the 38 right yeah where do you get where do you buy hair where do you get hair to put on your helmet like costume hair or real hair no it was actually real hair okay this is neither the first nor the last time keys would admit to keeping human hair as you may remember from episode two before dismembering Samantha Koneg Israel cut off and kept her braided ponytail he would later admit to using human hair as part of his disguise in another bank robbery but here's the thing the courier's body still to this day have never been found the FBI and local law enforcement searched the Coventry landfill for two and a half months and were only able to recover a rib and two bone fragments but they also found a clump of hair which couldn't be connected to the courier's or Israel and granted that clump of hair could have come from anywhere but when the FBI located and went through his Blake Falls reservoir kill kit they found a flashlight multiple boxes and loose rounds of ammunition drain oh a silencer zip ties multiple guns and gun parts and black cloth with human hair glue to it this hair could neither be connected to the courier's nor keys and you told me people in Vermont they're not gonna be looking for any other crimes in Vermont right no so when I talked to them I can tell them that yeah no it's just no I mean yeah I can say back to the couriers that's that's as far back as we're going so well that's a different I mean that's fine if you want to if that's what you want to do but I but I want to ask you last time the people in Vermont I said there aren't any more bodies in Vermont okay so so does that mean that the bodies aren't in Vermont but they might have been there I'm not gonna talk about anything before you try and though aren't you we're trying to put a context in what we're dealing with I think we ought enough to deal with right now and like you say in a couple of weeks you know there's a lot of other things we need to start talking about too right there enough so I went back to the timeline keys as always said that when committing crimes he liked to keep a tight schedule and that he generally committed murders in conjunction with family visits and on this trip with multiple family visits in different states there are three nights prior to his arrival in Essex that he can't be accounted for June 2nd and June 5th and 6th he arrived in Chicago on the evening of June 2nd and he showed up at his mother's house in Harlan Indiana just three hours away on the afternoon of June 3rd extensive searches can't place him in any area hotels on the night of the second he left his mother's house on June 5th and checked into the handy sweets and Essex on June 7th and all we really know about those three days is that he retrieved his Tupper Lake kill kit and based on interviews with his mother it's believed he drove from Harlan to Tupper Lake through Ohnida New York which is an 11 hour drive he told his mother that on his way he stopped at several abandoned houses and hotels and that eventually he made his way to their constable home where he planted trees a search of the constable home was conducted and we'll get into that in a future episode I started to wonder if maybe he was so sloppy in Vermont because he was already amped up from another murder from a murder perhaps where he took the hair from his victim to use in Vermont bank robberies so I did a search for unsolved missing persons cases in Illinois Wisconsin Indiana Michigan Ohio Pennsylvania New York Vermont Massachusetts Connecticut West Virginia and New Jersey a search for any cases where the person or people went missing between June 2nd and June 7th paying close attention to the second 5th and 6th and there are only four unsolved missing persons cases with five missing people and all but one of those cases were fairly easy to eliminate as keys victims Emma Jean Duncan a 70-year-old dementia patient walked away from a group outing with her caregiver while at the Northland Mall in Southfield Michigan on June 5th and while Southfield is only two and a half hours from Harlan and on the way to Tupper Lake well by key standards it's highly likely and generally assumed that Emma wandered off of her own volition and is living amongst Detroit's massive homeless population or died from the elements Mary Acosta a 17-year-old disappeared from Danberry Connecticut on June 6th she's believed to be a runaway and even with someone like keys it would be hard to place him in Danbury on the night of the 6th and then checking into the handy suites 300 miles away the next day especially when considering he also traveled to both Constable and Tupper Lake after departing from Harlan on the 5th Karen Young and Randall Childs vanished in Detroit under incredibly mysterious circumstances on June 7th the couple had gotten into an argument while hanging out with friends at Randall's apartment Karen decided to leave and Randall walked her out to say goodbye the two walked down the six flights of stairs from Randall's apartment to the street and were never heard from again but much like Mary Acosta there's just no way keys timeline could place him in Detroit abducting and murdering two people on the same day he checked into the handy suites and Essex so that leaves one disappearance in Indiana in the early hours of June 3rd in his interviews keys talked a lot about how on this specific trip he became more motivated by publicity he started to get a high off of media mentions an online chatter about his crimes and even the FBI was a bit skeptical of this because while the courier's garnered media attention locally there wasn't much if any discussion about them outside of Vermont but that June 3rd disappearance it got a lot of media attention and here's the thing I'm not saying I believe keys is responsible for this one this is a case with multiple suspects close to the victim who exhibited a lot of shady behavior the night of her disappearance and in the following weeks and months however the same could be and has been said in regards to Samantha Konig's disappearance her father her boyfriend and a casual acquaintance were all suspects at some point and they all exhibited extremely shady behavior in the weeks leading up to and following her disappearance so I'm not saying this was keys but I'm also not saying it wasn't Lauren Speer disappeared from Bloomington Indiana sometime between 251 a.m. and 4.30 a.m. on June 3rd 2011 this episode featured music by Sparkle Horse William Hellfire radical face wife Sergei Cheromisanov and Moves [Music] ♪ You grew up today ♪ ♪ But stay away ♪ ♪ But for when we're all ♪ ♪ And for when we're all ♪ ♪ You grew up today ♪ Winning never sounded so good. 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