#007 - Chris Griffin - The one trait we all lack but need

Chris Griffin, it is an unbelievable gift to have you on the show, mate. Thank you for making the time. It's a pleasure to be here, man. There are millions of men in particular in the world today that would die to sit where you're sat, not just on this show, but in the current reality that you've built for yourself. And maybe even beyond that, the sense of confidence that you have developed inside of you as a result. And I want to begin with that word. How would you define confidence? And secondly, how can a man who is watching this right now develop a sense of confidence in himself? Confidence gets confused with ego a lot, and they're very different. And so I truly believe that confidence is internal. It's an internal knowing, and ego is an external knowing. Confidence being like, you know who you are, and you're okay if people don't. And ego being, I need you to tell me how great I am so I can believe it too, right? And people want the Cedar Mist. But they don't want to do the work to get there. And that rings home because I've experienced it so much. People seem to admire what I have, but then when they look at what it takes to get there, they're not willing to walk that walk. I think if you were to look at my life and the journey that I've been on, it was fueled by naivety and delusion. And the naivety is the key piece, because if I knew what I was getting myself into, I wonder if I would have got into it in the first place. I always envisioned like this big goal and all the things I wanted, but equally, I didn't really have sight on how to get there. And so every step I could only see the next one, which was the biggest blessing, because I was clouded from the shit that I was about to embark on. I think when you look at someone that you admire to be or admire to have aspects of their life, I think it's important to recognize the whole path. Four years ago, I didn't have anything. Three years ago, I didn't have anything. I was heartbroken and had no idea what I was going to do. And so, in fact, it was actually almost exactly three years ago was when I was heartbroken and I took a one-way, took an eight-day trip to Thailand on a credit card trying to figure it out and had no job, I was heartbroken, I had no idea what I was doing. And I just think there's two pieces here. It's like, how do you gain the confidence and what's the advice for men that lack confidence? truly truly truly if you just try what will happen is you'll fail so if you tie yourself to the great outcomes that you want to achieve and then you just try and do it like give it a red hot crack the likelihood is is you're going to go through some failures and through the failures you will grow because look the reality is is if i was giving someone advice and i wanted to be brutally honest i'd be like go through as much shit as you humanly as humanly possible but if i tell them that they'll be like well that sounds like a shit life yeah right but if i just tell them to try a byproduct is is they're going to go through the shit and they're going to get the outcomes that they want the answer is go through more shit like it really is but figuring out what the motivation is is the important thing because if you just tell someone to go through shit for their life they're not really going to be very motivated to do so so tying them to a greater outcome and then kind of making them go through more shit is the important thing because if you just tell someone to go through more shit they're more naive to the shit that they're going to go through because they'll just naturally end up going through it why do you think so many people have an aversion to going through shit look let's just call it how it is what's being normalized for men is a life that they don't need to go through shit you don't need to you just need to express your emotions you're the same as the women you should do this rata rata rata anything you do that has any thing to do with male self-improvement is toxic masculinity so if they're getting drilled down their throat and every single time they step over that that that barrier of of trying to do something better for themselves they get shut down or they get left out of the pack it's pretty easy to just take the safe bet what the parents want you to do what your teachers want you to do what the surroundings want you to do and what society wants you to do and frankly i think it's just creating a and i think the weak link in the world is the weak men yeah and then also it's just like back in the day we had to fight to catch our food and to provide for our family but now things are quite easily accessible so you don't need a lot to live a normal life um and so i think just the desires have changed and people's work ethics have changed a couple things that come up for me there the first is the quote from jordan peterson where he says that the most dangerous man in the world is a weak man and the second thing is what i'm hearing you say is that the goal is not to then pursue confidence it's to build a healthier relationship to rejection and a man who builds a healthier relationship to rejection what's left over is natural innate sense of confidence because what i'm hearing you say as you describe your story is that the naivety allowed you to understand that you maybe didn't know you were going to fail but the way you approached failure and the expectation almost of it has allowed you to continue moving forward in the presence of rejection after rejection after rejection so i'm curious how you how you sit with that i didn't believe in failure i was like i'm gonna be a multi-millionaire at 20 things are gonna be easy life is great why doesn't everyone do this what do you mean and then you raise all this money at 18 years old for a software company that you thought was going to be valued at 100 million dollars and you're sleeping on a bed a mattress on the floor with your best mate with only a couple of whiteboards all around the walls and all you're doing is working working and you're sleeping on a mattress on the floor with your best mate working working working during covid in a lockdown raising money to putting on a suit in this little studio apartment and hopping in my old subaru and driving to a boardroom to pitch investors to raise money and then we raise the money then we lose all their money but before losing the money it's like oh my god we have made it 800 000 valuation four months of operation we are on right and failure wasn't even a concept until it was and so the naivety of not even believing in failure made us embark so much more because we just saw all the upside and none of the downside and that was exciting and i think when you embark on that journey which is why i encourage people to try is a byproduct is as you fail and not just try as in like let's just half ass it like go all in and like give it a red hot crack and like finish what you started and follow through on the things you said to and get up on the days you don't want to when you do that enough times confidence is just a byproduct the reason i can have confidence and the reason i can take more risks is because i've been through way worse and if i didn't try i never would have gone through any shit and so i just i just look at it and you know helping men is probably one of the things i'm most passionate about firstly i can try and help women all i like and most my audience is women but i'm not a woman i don't know what challenges they go through right but i'm i am a man and and so i know right and and to be honest like the external things a man needs to do i feel it's quite simple it's like get jacked make money and the person you become along the way is probably one that's quite calm stoic and is someone that's nice to be around doesn't get phased by terminal as easy he's a very grounded whole space which makes everyone else feel safe around him if you just try and get jacked and make a bunch of money like the thing you become on that way is is a pretty great man for women it's more complicated and i don't really know i don't know and so i i feel i i feel for i don't i don't know um but for men i just know that if you did those two things and you committed yourself to those two things and you took risks on those and you tried and you learned more and you're obsessed over it the likelihood is is you will become a better man right and so um and so yeah and so that's why i'm just i am really passionate about helping men level up because i've just seen how much it's changed for me as well it's a big down for me you just said get jacked and make a lot of money what wasn't included there was search for god focus on your mental and emotional well-being look for a phenomenal relationship all of those what i'm hearing you say are coming after get jacked and make money break that down for me yeah well when you get jacked the way you walk around the world all of a sudden shifts when i feel like i can take my shirt off wherever with whoever and in the skin that nothing's hiding it it's crazy how i just show up even when i have clothes on i wear clothes a lot but like but like it it makes you show up people respect you because when they look at you they go you've worked for that you've worked for that the money piece is frankly it's it's pretty fucking hard to try and make a lot of money and so uh especially when you're starting from ground zero you know and this is another key piece is because like i can i have a lot more leverage now in business where and and with the things that i've built where i can make a lot more money for a lot less output but i've spent the last seven years sprinting to get me to that point but if we just actually zoom out and not just go okay i can make a lot of money with little output now but if we just zoom out and go okay the last seven years i've actually been slanted on my face and it's really incredibly hard to make money i thought it was going to be easier than it was so much harder but now it's a lot easier but it still hard now the reason i think those two things are important especially when you have nothing Is because even if we tie into relationship with God, when I think about the development of my relationship with God, it's progressing so much from knowing who I am. Because I can say that I believe in God, but I don't actually feel that. I would say that I could like try and say, oh yeah, I'm a Christian. But do I really feel the relationship with Jesus? No, I don't. And so for me, I felt like when I put myself through enough challenge, both physically and entrepreneurially, what happens is I start to go through more challenge. I start to have more isolation. I start to have more time alone and I start to ponder more. And I think for me, then when I can create that space, then it allows me to invite more thoughts in, which is like learning more spiritually, understanding more spiritually. In order for it to come to an end. Because if you are fueling your physical appearance and your wealth creation with ego, you're constantly going to want the next thing. Because as I said earlier, it's ego is telling you, I want you to tell me how great I am so I can believe it too. So what that's saying is you don't actually believe that you're great right now. Which means you need more. So this is coming from a lacking. I think if you feel like you need more, it's very hard to have space in your life to invite all the other feelings in. And so I just feel like those are the very first steps, at least for me personally, that have really unlocked a lot of my life. That was going to be my next question was when you say get jacked and make a lot of money. And at the beginning of the conversation mentioned ego is the external, the self is the internal. My immediate question was what happens in the absence of that? Because what I think is, well, then you have to sustain the body in order to feel okay about yourself. But what happens in the absence of the body? Let's say you get injured, you tell your ACL, now nine months you can't work out. Who do you become in the absence of that thing? Well, I think there's a key distinguishing here around lifestyle and maybe diet. And so in the context of a body, right? If I tore my ACL, touch wood, I'm still going to stay in good shape. Because my lifestyle that I really genuinely love reflects one of a healthy person. I don't eat garbage, frankly, and I understand food. And so, and I genuinely love it. I would prefer to eat the steak and the sweet potatoes than the McDonald's burger. And so if I have developed that by in pursuit of getting jacked, I develop a lifestyle that reflects one that is healthy. And so if I genuinely prefer. That than the McDonald's, it's pretty easy to stay jacked. I have a keep a six pack all year round. I don't remember the last time I've tracked my food, but because I did it for quite a while. And because I know so much about health and my body, it just comes so much more naturally. I know how much food I'm eating on average. I know, I know the amount of protein I'm going. I'm making sure I'm drinking enough water. And also I know when I feel good and when I don't, and then I adjust my food based on that. And so I just. I just see this and I just go like the, we're not trying to do things that are in short term. I'm trying to develop habits. I'm trying to develop a life that aligns with one that, that puts me in the best position to thrive. That puts me in the best position to be open to God, puts me in the best position to treat the people around me and my relationships in the utmost respect and in the best way. And so that's kind of the frame that I'm meaning. So you have gotten jacked and you've made a lot of money. Mm-hmm. What found you once you had those things? What was the next conversation to, to handle? You know, I saw this great video. Uh, in fact, frankly, I see a lot of great videos from Andrew Tate. I love seeing this guy. I get, I get motivated by his stuff and people are going to literally comment. If you made a video of that thing right there of all this hate, and there's a lesson deeper beyond that around how people will just write off the message based on who says it. But. You can't help, but look at a video of him and his brother dancing in the most ridiculous thing, playing with like a random deck of cards or lighting a cigar or something, and they are bawling their eyes out joking. They're doing basically nothing. And they have like the utmost amount of joy. The only reason they can do that is because them as a pair were in a prison. They were in a prison cell together, and they came out of that together. And I truly believe that the quality of the relationship you have with someone comes down to the depth of experience you've had. So like how many highs and how high they are and how many lows and how low they are. Like when you're in the high, the only reason it's a high is because it's mirroring the low that you've been in. And, and for me, I just look at that and I just go. In the journey. In the journey of doing that, getting jacked and making money, I experienced so many lows. So now when I get to the highs, I can genuinely appreciate them because I look at it and I go, I deserve this. Like I actually genuinely feel like free because of the journey that it went, that I went on to, to, to, to obtain all of the things. And, and I think that's the thing that really matters. So what are your thoughts on someone who says that the, a sense of. Deservingness is innate. It's not something you earn. Well. Like you just said, I deserve this because I have evidence of everything I've created in the world that is giving me the understanding based on what I've created that I deserve this. So deserve, first off deserve what, what is it? What is it that you, what is it that you deserve? Yeah. So I guess deserving the, if I'm thinking about the term and as it was leaving my mouth, I was pondering on it as well. The, the feeling of, of deserving is definitely like intellect. It's like, it's your, you justifying the situation that you're in. Yeah. It's not heart. Yeah. It's like, no, like you don't own any of this stuff, man. None of this is yours. Um, and so, and so I think for me, if I'm thinking about it, right. And how, how I'm operating, I'm looking at everything in my, in my life and I'm just assessing the things that I have or the things that I'm presented with and the way I'm viewing the world. And the only. Way I'm kind of being able to explain the feeling and, and, and express a certain feeling is based on my past experiences that I've had. And so I guess probably the lens, what I'm saying, deserving it is like the, the thing itself actually has no value. And so if I didn't embark on a journey that was challenging to obtain it, I wouldn't even appreciate it because I wouldn't even see the value in it as much. Like when a kid gets his. First car bought by his dad and it's a Range Rover brand new. And when I jump in the car and I go, oh man, this car's awesome. And he goes, yeah, it's all right. Yeah. He doesn't have the comparison. So I think when I say I deserve it, it's probably the way I'm reflecting and showing up is more of a heightened level of appreciation and gratitude for life because of the polarity that I've been through. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. All heartedly. So what does that mean about people who have grown up in the context of wealth? And, uh, like you just said about intellect, their sense of gratitude is not a heart gratitude. It's an intellectual gratitude because they can't actually feel it because the life that they've grown up inside of has been surrounded by wealth far too early and it hasn't been quote unquote earned. Yeah. If I think about it, then when I say deserve it, you actually feel like you've earned it. Um, and if something just. Handed down to you and you haven't gone through a challenge to obtain it, it probably struggles to feel even deserving of it in a sense. Right. And so maybe there's a, a feeling like you get inherited all this money. Oh, I'm rich. Well, in what, like in some shekels in some, in some dollar signs and some zeros in your bank account, like, is that really rich? And this is why I probably, I don't really resonate with the. Uh, quick fixes, look, maxes, all of these kinds of people, because they want the outcome without the journey to getting it. And I just wonder if the outcome even holds any value internally, like what's the point of the, of the outcome. If internally you haven't even changed in the pursuit of getting the outcome and, uh, and that's when it ties into the thing at the start, like make it harder, like go and maybe if I tell you to make it harder, that's not going to be a motivation, but try. Give it everything you got. Why not be the best. If you can just be the best at what you're trying to do. And I love this when, when I had Robin Sharma on the pod, he's like, he goes, he goes, if you're going to be a street sweeper, be the best damn street sweeper. And he was talking about the Johannesburg airport for me and the story he was explaining about the Johannesburg airport. And he walked in and there was a guy in the, in the airport of Johannesburg airport. And he walked. and he's like, "Hello, my friend." And he was sitting next to toilets and urinals in an airport. And he was the most bubbly guy energetic ever. And Robin's just experiencing this guy literally being like a janitor in the airport cleaning toilets. And he was so stoked. And the lesson here is whatever you are doing, at the very least, try and be the best at it. Because if you're trying to be the best at it, it's going to be challenging. You're going to have to show up on the days you don't want to. You're going to have to probably work a little bit later. You're going to have to troubleshoot something that you're banging your head against the wall at. Whatever you are doing, if you're trying to be the best, it's going to be hard. And so I think the realization is the pursuit needs to be hard in order for the outcome to be worthy. Even just worthy. For the outcome to have any value, the pursuit needs to be hard. And this is honestly why I feel there's so much value. In developing a relationship with God. It's so hard, man. If you don't grow up with any religion or any faith, it is so hard. Dude, I have been banging my head against the wall. I was raging. I was getting so mad. I still don't have the relationship, but I'm getting there a whole lot closer, right? And I was like raging at it. I'm like, I'm trying to show me this. And nothing. And I would rage. I would read stuff in the scripture and it would be so annoying. And I would speak to someone and then I would read another book that someone's written. And I would just, it was just raging me. To the point where I said to the people that I was trying to lean into it to learn more about with, I was like, I just need a break. And then that there, when it clicked, when I had this break, it clicked to me. I went, this is why it matters. This thing's fucking hard. This is so hard. Probably one of the hardest things I've ever done. So then perhaps if it's the hardest thing I've ever done, if I could eventually try and get to the other side of this tunnel, my guess would be, it'd be pretty valuable. I'd probably cherish it. It'd probably change my life, which is a reason to keep exploring it. And, um, and, and yeah, so I think the pursuit does need to be hard, at least from my understanding right now. And that's definitely subject to change. I don't really know what's going on. I'm trying to figure it all out. But I, but I believe that the harder it is, it always seems to be more valuable on the other side. cut fantastic that's a beautiful beautiful response and there's this there's so many directions that i could take this the first is the ego and the self and i want to dive into that and i also want to dive into the god the concept of god because just to empathize with you mate i grew up in a world of incredibly high performance my dad was a professional soccer player played for manchester united my mom was a professional dancer and i felt like i could perform my way into every arena it's like if i want something i can just i can just make it happen and the god concept seems like it's the literal antithesis of that it's like you can't for me at least my experience has been you can't i can't pursue or push or get better at whatever this fucking relationship is with god and a mentor of mine said to me something not too long ago that really touched me deeply he said you'll realize that god is not something you pursue god is not something you pursue you'll realize that god is not something you pursue god is what is there in the absence of your belief that it's all up to you and that really touched me deeply because he said to me you live in a world billy in which it's all up to you and so you take quite literal responsibility for everything in your life which has served you up until this point but at the moment in which there's this thing this this spirit this entity that is much greater than you you need support you can't let support in because you live in a world in which it's all up to you and until you dissolve that belief you're not a belief god can't come in he said god is not something you arrive to god is what's available to you in the absence of the belief that it's all up to you and then perhaps that is why the more i feel like i know nothing the easier it is to see god because yeah i and that's probably a pursuit of removing the ego as well i genuinely am starting to believe i know nothing and perhaps that's why i'm being able to explore god because if i feel like i know it all oh my god you have to know it all in order to be something that is that's the interruption yeah if i feel like i need to know something or i have to be the one that has all the answers my guess would be is i'm shutting my mind off to inviting anything else in so if i shut my mind off to inviting anything else in and i don't currently believe in something guess what i'm not going to ever be able to believe it until i let go of that belief you know yeah this is a bit of an unlock because the the the the feeling of knowing something is like a bit of a boost to your ego yeah one up your mate oh aren't i so great right but then you stay stuck you you actually can't invite new stuff in when you feel like you know everything and so the opposite of that has to be the most productive lens feeling like you know nothing because then even if something doesn't serve you you can the very least hear it when you're so caught up in feeling like you know everything your ears are shutting and just like when i'm doing this i can't hear you right now that's like everyone walking through life feeling like they know everything but they actually don't and then when you open it up you start to realize holy shit there's actually a lot more other opinions that are serving people in ways that live lives far better than i do perhaps i should just invite that in perhaps i should explore it and then when you do that you realize you know nothing because the more you learn the less you feel like you know isn't that a wild concept the more you know the less you realize you know yeah but then on top of this right and i've got this message in this book because if we tie this into religion faith christianity i wrote this on easter sunday after going to an easter service at a church i said i'm realizing the importance of dancing between your intellect and your heart you know some things you believe and some things you know but there is a difference because the thing that i'm wrestling with with with christianity as a whole right like believing something and knowing something's completely different like when when someone genuinely says like that they believe that a woman was made from a from a rib of a man have you heard that story in the bible so just visualize this for a second and this is why it's for someone that doesn't believe this feels like a supernatural superman movie or something and avengers right shut your eyes and you imagine this you go some a man was sleeping and someone came to him and ripped out his rib and then when he woke up there was a woman and then the man it wasn't fair for the man to be alone so they created a woman to support the man i don't know the exact story but something along those lines right like when i imagine that i genuinely really struggle to know that that happened right and so like i think it's okay to believe it but you don't actually know what happened you don't know what happened you weren't there no one was there no to watch that no just like how mary didn't sleep with the neighbor she just was birthed by by god right and so like i think there's there's a piece where i'm wrestling here where there is a difference between knowing and believing you can believe something but you don't actually know it like when i'm walking i know that i'm walking right and so like i think it's okay to believe it but you don't actually know it but there's a lot of beliefs that we have in our life that we don't actually know we can't justify it's just fully faith-based which isn't a bad thing i think it's just important to recognize totally right and so the question then begs beyond just christianity religion what are all the beliefs that you have in your life that you think are boxing you in what are all the things that you are currently believing and they're dictating the way that you act now is the action that you're taking because of that belief one that serves you and the greater good or not because so many of us are walking through life with beliefs that are making us a worse person frankly they're making us not fun to be around they're making us not progress towards the life we truly want to live but we feel like we need to believe it for what why and so yeah being being aware of the beliefs that we have i think are really important it's a great step towards looking within and and checking in and checking in and checking in and checking in and checking in and doing constant self-assessments to make sure that you're actually progressing towards the life that you truly want. really want so answer that for me when you say for what why why do they hold on to beliefs that are outdated and are simply not serving them well they are serving them in some way which is why they're doing it pleasing someone else abiding some sort of obeying some sort of rules so let's break that one down they are they're pleasing someone else what in what way is that serving them what is it lack of judgment staying in the pack beautiful so lack of judgment and staying in the pack what does that reveal about what they must believe about themselves if someone's listening to this right now and they can they're a people pleaser and they are recognizing from hearing you share which i'm totally in alignment with that they're holding on to certain beliefs because in some way it is serving them people pleasing is serving you because you don't have to get judged and the absence of judgment you can feel like you are belong you belong okay and then if someone feels like they belong and they have to people please in order to belong what must they believe about themselves that they're not enough maybe that they're not wanted that they're not lovable and so in my world to break this down quite simply is you people please right because it's serving you in some way it's serving the part of you that thinks you have to change yourself in order to belong but what the the underlying constraint that's fueling the people pleasing is the belief that i'm unlovable as i am and so i have to manipulate distort and change myself to be what i think they need to be so that i can quote unquote belong but i'm not really getting belonging what i'm getting is fitting in and that's why most people are exhausted it's like bernie brown says she says true belonging is not to truly belong you don't change who you are you have to be who you are but living in a world in which you're unlovable and not safe and not wanted and not cared for and people don't people don't think you're good enough inside that environment requires that you have to change yourself in order to pursue this sense of belonging and this is why i think this is such an important conversation because this this and the entirety of this ecosystem this podcast is centered around helping people discover a true sense of belonging and i think a lot of people think they've got it but what they've actually got is fitting in and i'm just curious how you how you sit with that you're welcome that's great yeah belonging has to be internal i feel because the more i feel okay with who i am the less i feel i need to please anyone and then the more i feel i don't have to please anyone the more i feel like i can be myself and then when i'm myself people are actually attracted to me for me which means i attract people that actually like me not who they think i am which is the way that i'm showing up so it's all internal so how do you obtain that being alone but most people can't sit alone that's their biggest fear so how do you obtain the comfortability of being alone being alone is that hard yes there's your answer probably means something yeah probably does let's keep going down this road because that's really powerful well if we think about it right the my life truly changed when i started feeling peace when i'm alone and i think the only way i could access that is equally being able to feel peace in a low and i think if you haven't been able to feel peace in a low you're not alone you're not alone you're not alone you're not alone you're not alone you're not alone you're not alone you're not alone you're not alone it just means you haven't been through enough lows because for me dude like like there's a when you feel a peace in a low you don't really fear going through lows and so then you're more willing to go through more risks right and when you go through more risks you go through more challenge which then makes you feel more full within yourself and so for me i just feel like the i think i yeah i think when you're if you're in a low and you feel stressed on edge fearful and scarce you need to go through more shit i think when you are in a low and you feel calm collected and more importantly amused you're in a good place because you start to feel unstoppable like feeling amused like genuinely being able to laugh in the chaos is one of the biggest superpowers i feel i have because then you don't fear the chaos so like when we talk about chaos when we talk about these stoic approaches right and being calm in the chaos people start to feel safe and feel like they're not like if you're stressed and on edge and you're the leader you can imagine everyone below you is probably going to start to feel stressed and on edge as well and yeah perhaps just perhaps being able to develop that is the thing that will really level up things in your life it'll make everyone else feel better around you as well and be able to show up in them's life and be able to show up in their lives and be able to show up in themselves uh your family will feel more more safe and uh your actions will reflect one that's more in abundance as opposed to scarce being alone and being in silence yeah my life my life's changed from being able to be okay with that and it's taken a long journey yeah to do that but um yeah i i just think that all it all ties into the stuff we've been talking about this whole conversation around actually like developing a way to be a better person and to be a better person and to be that confidence true confidence yeah because yeah you know you can conquer and achieve and do all of the things you want but you also feel okay with who you are right now because if you're if you have the ability to conquer but you're not okay with who you are right now yeah that's ego driven your ego's in the way there and the only way to be okay with who you are right now is to spend enough time with yourself to be with the part of you that isn't okay and you know what happened when you go on the pursuit of making a boatload of money people don't really support it no one believes in you as much as you do when you are on the pursuit of excellence in the sense of money because oftentimes to create a lot of the wealth especially starting from ground zero you need to take a lot of risk and people don't get your delusion like you do so when you do that you don't have as many supporters so then what happens is you don't have as many supporters what happens is you have to do a lot of things alone and then you get comfortable being alone and then that's the superpower get jacked to make a lot of money maybe you'll find god along the way maybe i hope so i hope so i mean that's really fucking powerful there's a quote that i love just in that vein as it pertains to silence that says most people don't want to be with silence because the silence speaks so loudly yeah the truth comes which is yeah and until you arrive at the place in which you can genuinely hear what the silence has to say you can't transcend it and until you can transcend it you can't arrive at what we're referring to as confidence and it's my perspective that most people aren't genuinely confident because they haven't as you were saying sat in or been with enough of their own shit and that can only happen in the presence of building a relationship with you and you i wonder where people drop off i wonder why why they don't because i'm fascinated to unpack this all the time you know one of the one of the things that i had been realizing as well more recently is is that like you truly you truly could only help people that are willing to be helped as well and if someone hasn't sat in them in silence enough and with their own thoughts they're too ego-driven to even hear your lessons and i don't even think it's about drilling it down their throat as well because that can make them not even hear it as well but if you can if you can act in a true sense of leadership where you're acting in the way that you're doing it you're acting in the way that people are inspired to be like i'm not interested in the christians that scream christianity down my throat i'm interested in the ones that light up and they're so bubbly and so positive all the time and i go why and they answer god yes right so if you can do that in every area of your life it unlocks this it unlocks this like freeing nature where you want to help people that really want to be helped but you also have zero time for people that don't if someone if someone wants to be around me and they're inadequate at the thing they're trying to do and i've achieved something in that area that they want want, and I'm not telling them what to do and drilling it down their throat, but they want the thing I have and I'm showing up in the way of a person that has it. And then they don't look at it and go, fuck, I need to be like that if I want that. Then I'm sorry, I'm probably not going to keep you around. A lot of the stuff we do is selfish, I think. There is a bit of a give and take in a lot of things. And I think when you get to a point of excellence in a certain field, you actually opt to giving and you opt to altruism, which is why you see all the billionaires start giving, right? It's the same with mentoring and all of the thing, right? You want to help other people because you've already helped yourself. But if someone's not willing to be helped, I don't really have the time for them because that one even drains me. And so maybe that's something I need to work on myself to not be affected by that as well. To not be able to be affected by someone that isn't willing to. Level up their own life in any way, shape or form. Why do you think you are affected by it? Maybe it's just a caring of a specific person. Like if I really care about them and I see potential, but I also just don't try and force things. I really don't. And so, yeah, I would say that I, to be honest, I'm getting a lot better at that. Like I don't really get affected at the people. I guess probably there's an element of. Like distance from them if I'm not getting a good energy. Like if I'm not feeling energized from the presence and the energy of them, I probably won't stick around them and keep them around. And that's just something I just try and be really protective of my energy because I think the way that I thrive is if I have enough time in my own space to invite more thoughts and creativity in to show up at the best version of myself when I do things like this, which is my line of work. Yeah. And so being. Very protective of that energy is key. Yeah. Reminds me of a mentor, mind you, Von Langford. He's been a godsend in my life. And when I was first, when I first hired him, he. I had a lot of toxic people around me. And I don't mean toxic. The interesting thing about toxic people is that they're often the ones that we love the most. And they're often the ones closest to us. And it's the narratives that they hold inevitably about themselves in the world that if you're not careful, they will impose onto you. And I was so afraid to leave those people behind because I didn't want them to think that I thought I was better than them. And he said to me something that changed my life. He said, when you leave people, you're not leaving them because you're better. You're leaving them because you're beyond where they are. And where they are is simply where you can no longer afford to be. And he had me put my hand on my shoulder. He said, put your hand on your shoulder and point there. And he said, look, at your finger and say, I'm not there anymore. And he had me do it 10 times and say, I'm not there anymore. I'm not there anymore. Those people, that place, the conversations that they operate within, the vibration that they show up inside of, I'm not there anymore. And I think that too many people in the world are unhappy simply because they're spending too much time with not their people. And what I'm most, one of the things that I'm most inspired by by you is that you've traversed the world. You've left your people, quite literally, a country who has a label. What's the label in Australia? What's the label? Tall poppy syndrome. You've left a country behind that in so many ways would demonize the manner in which you're choosing to show up, to be bigger, to be more fully expressed, to be more expansive in how you want to show up in the context of the world and the impact and the income and the things that you want to have. And that is so fucking normal. But I can't imagine what it's like for you and been like for you to have to come all the way across the world and leave behind a culture that quite literally demonizes everything that you've become. And so I really want to understand what has that journey and process been like? Everything just feels like the next logical step. And one of my favorite quotes, that Steve Jobs quote, you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards. I can't look three years ago and be like, oh, I'm going to be in America. I'm going to be building one of the biggest podcasts in the world. I didn't know, but now when I get here, I can look back and connect all of the dots. And it's important to recognize that I feel because again, I don't want someone starting out on their journey to look at my life and go like, he just had it all figured. Like he left his country. Yeah. Good on him. All the stuff like this. Like I don't want him, I don't want them to think about having figured out. I still don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I'm still figuring it out, but the decisions I'm making, I feel very aligned with me. And because I've done so much work internally, there's like a deeper knowing when it comes to the decisions that I'm making and they're operated in a very abundant field, not a, a scarce mind. And it's probably been the biggest transformation from say my upbringing and my family and everything is just the opposite. Like my, well, my brother gets here and he's freaking out about like how I, I haven't looked at a price once in the whole time he'd been here. Whatever food, whatever, I just, I just buy it. Um, and like, he's here, he's like freaking out, like going like, whoa, like eggs are that much? This much, this much, this much. And he won't even, I won't even respond to him once. I won't even recognize his thought. I just tap the card. And that's just one lens of like, is that irresponsible or is it freeing? I don't have to worry about all of those problems that you guys spend all your days and energy worrying about. But I had to break free from that. It took so long. I had to reprogram my mind and my life from the inside out. I had to do it time and time again. I had to build up confidence that made me be able to even live in a state of abundance. You know, I had to build true confidence to know that I am capable. I am competent and I can do this so that when I do that, I just follow through. It's like having that mindset and making no money is a silly thing. You'll just forever be broke. But if you have such an abundant mindset where you just go, no, it's a skill issue. Just make more money. And you genuinely operate in that state. It's not a problem buying the peanut butter that's more expensive than the one that's on sale because you want that one. It doesn't matter. Right? It's so minuscule in the scheme of things. So for me, I went on this quest of how do I not have to worry about all the things that people spend their times worrying about? All of the dramas that I've seen in my family's relationships, where did they stem from? Let's eliminate that from my life. All of the things people complain on and keep talking about, where do they stem from? And the money one was interesting. I wanted this. I said, imagine a world where you could make your decisions on the premise of the decision itself, not how much it cost. That would be a cool life. So I went and built it. And I just thought, well, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. It's so freeing to eliminate so many of the worries that we have in our life so that you can actually have free space. Because the worries hold so much weight, dude. They hold so much weight. It's like you have this massive backpack on and it's just holding you down. And the moment you let it off, drop it on the ground and keep moving forward, you literally feel like 10x speed. You feel like you're watching the podcast when you're editing it back on 2x speed. That's how life feels. And it's quite freeing. Quite powerful. You feel like you can conquer. What I'm hearing you say is that you've just used your imagination better. Reminds me of that quote. I think it was Walt Disney. He says, worry is a misuse of imagination. And you just said, you started the sentence with imagine a world in which I don't have to look at my account or I don't have to worry or I don't have to feel anything when I tap my car. And what I'm hearing you say about its antithesis, family, friends, most people in the world, is they're just using their imagination against them. It's like you just created a future for yourself that was more desirable than the present that you're in now so that you could step into that future. The challenge is that most people's future that they've created for themselves inside their own head is one they don't want to step into. And that's why most people have become resigned to life. It's not because the future is bleak, but because of the future that they've made up inside of their head is bleak. And why would any of us want to step into that world? And correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing you say is you just created a better future inside your head. Yeah. Well, you were being the person that you wanted to become and doing the things that that person does. And then a byproduct of that is you just had the life, right? Tie this into manifesting. Have you heard about the lottery ticket exercise? No, tell me. Let's do it. Let's do this exercise, right? So I want us to close our eyes. I just want you to grocery store and you're going to your car and as you're walking Walking to the car, you see this corner store and in the corner store, it's advertising lottery tickets. And, you know, you don't really buy these lottery tickets much, but you thought, I may as well before I go to the car, I'll grab it. And as you grab the lottery, you buy the lottery ticket. And as you're walking home, you go back to the car, you go back home and you're just getting on with your day. Now, a couple of days later, you hear an announcement that someone in your city has won the lottery. And you look at it, you look into the details and you realize your name gets read out and you've just won $200 million. And you've won that $200 million. And what they tell you is it's going to hit your bank account in 30 days. The money's not in yet. It's hitting your bank account in 30 days. Now, I want you to imagine, you know, that $200 million is coming into your bank in 30 days time. How would you show up? How would you treat people? What would be the things that you would do? What would you be showing up for? Your family, how would you treat them? What would you look after them with? Would you be present in the moment when you're speaking with them? Would you be concerned about fuel prices? Would you be concerned about all of the people that are talking shit about you? Would you hang out with people that are draining you? Would you let people into your life that are taking all of your energy, not fueling you up, not making you want to run on a treadmill? I guess not. I guess what this would be is that you wouldn't. And if you open your eyes, right, you can start to imagine that if you showed up in the way that $200 million is going to enter your bank account in 30 days time, and you showed up in that way right now, it would be different than how you're acting right now. That's manifesting. It's believing it's going to happen before it's happened. And what happens is your actions start reflecting one of one that's way more abundant, that has the life that you truly want. You truly want to live. You know, and you can elaborate that so much deeper. What car are you driving? Where is the house? Who are you waking up with? Be the person that lives in that life now before you have it. And it's crazy how much you show up. When you look at that person driving the Ferrari and smiling, has a wife that looks at him in a state of awe. Don't just admire that. Reflect. How are they acting? Are they treating people with care? Do they smile? Do they have a spring in their step? Do they love their life? Right? That for me is something that will absolutely alter the way that you think, the way you show up, the way people will respect you, the person that you'll be. And it's funny what happens when you do that for a long enough time. You end up just having that life. When you can be the person you want to become, and do the things that that person does, a byproduct is the life just comes. And that's been powerful for me. That's incredibly potent. I can see it on your face. I could feel it in mine just hearing you describe it. I think I have heard that. Mr. 408, I think I heard that video. Blake, Blake Roker. Yeah. Phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal. It reminds me of just doing my research for you in this conversation. There's a video or a podcast that you have shared transformed your life that you used to listen to every day on the way to the gym. Can you share the story of what was that podcast, Be, Do, Have? What was the podcast? Yeah. So Jim Fortin. When I was 17 years old and I would drive to the gym at 3.30 a.m. in the morning, I would play this podcast by this guy called Jim Fortin, and he completely transformed my life. I grew up in a family that was quite scarce. My dad would literally buy milk that was about to go off, and he would freeze it. And he completely transformed my life. And when I was driving to the gym, I was playing the podcast, and he taught me this concept called Be, Do, Have, which is basically what I was just explaining, right? He's talking about how most people live in the have, do, be. They say, when I have these things, I'm going to be able to do these things. So then I can be this person. But the problem there is you're constantly waiting. You don't have those things right now, so you can't start doing the things to be that person. It's like, when I have that job, I can do this. When I meet this person, I can do this. When I move in here, I can do this. When I get the body of my dreams, I can start showing up in this way. Whereas he says to flip it. You need to be the person that you want to become and do the things that that person does. And then a byproduct is, you'll have that life. It was a completely switching mindset for me. And when I changed that, and I started embodying that, and I started practicing that, my external world just started to reflect one of everything I'd ever dreamed. And far more. Because I had expanded my consciousness and my awareness of what actually mattered and what I actually wanted. And then I kept showing up in that way, and things just transformed for me. And. And yeah, and I just think that it all starts with that look within of reprogramming the subconscious. Because when you reprogram the subconscious, the stories you start telling yourself is different. And then when your stories that you're telling yourself are different, what happens is it starts changing the actions that you're taking. And then when you change the actions that you're taking, a byproduct is your environment reflects that. So I wanted to ask because you just said, and by the very nature, of you being someone new, you also had to stop being a lot of what you were. What did you have to stop? You still figure it out. It still refines. Like every leg of the journey, there's a new thing you need to overcome. Like when you're out of shape, and I don't like looking in the mirror, but I also just like genuinely love. eating burgers. Like you just look at that and go, okay, my identity is one of a fat person. Because what I'm craving all the time is what fat people eat. And so, like, quite frankly, I just go, all right, well, how do I develop a life and an identity of one that's healthy? Okay. I look up to this person. Yeah. He has a life that I want from what I see or aspects of his life. He's in a body that I know that, that probably if I like felt that, and I went through the challenge of doing it, I'd probably be more proud of myself. When I look in the mirror, I'll be proud of who looks back. So what does that guy do? Okay. He, at the time was Gregor Gallagher. He intermittent fasted. He focused on a specific. Style of training that got him in that good shape. So then I went, okay, I'm going to copy what he does. And I did it and I tested it and my life got better. So then when my life got better, all of a sudden I went, wow, this guy has something, right? I've just copied him. And fundamentally speaking, my life has gotten better. So then when I felt that in an extreme sense. Trying to go. Back to the old life, I couldn't even comprehend it. I preferred to eat the food that he ate over the burgers. And so I still might eat a burger here and there, but my identity isn't one that just crazed burgers every day. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so I just think it's like every step of the journey, there's new things and I'm still, you know, and then you start getting all this public fame and all of a sudden, like you get stopped on the street, everywhere you walk and when that happens for the first time, you start getting. Getting these feelings of, oh, maybe I need to think about what I wear now. Yeah. Well, someone stops me. Like I used to live on the beach and, and before I had all the audience, I would go down and in my underwear with messy bed hair. And then I started gaining these eyeballs and millions of views. And all of a sudden, like I needed to shower and put clothes on before I went down to the beach. And I was just observing that. Yeah. Cause if I got stopped, I didn't want to like them. I wanted them to get a photo of me and I was having bed hair and then they posted on their Instagram and then I looked bad. Okay. What about me doesn't feel full that makes me feel like I need to show up in a way when they post me online or with them seeing me in bed hair, if anything, make them feel like they know me more and relate to me more because I'm not trying to show up all polished. Or might they think you're lazy or what they think. Yeah. And so I guess there's, there's new drag. That's a slayer on every, every step of the way. And I think you just face new ones at different times. What's been the biggest one you've had this night. overextending myself to be seen and to be locked. Yeah. There's a big part of me that doesn't want to be alone. so I would overextend myself. and be extra loud in rooms to get recognition center of attention all of the thing and it stems from my dad being alone it stems from my dad you know being stuck in a relationship that is toxic and not having many friends to call on and so yeah uh that was the biggest one because i just kept losing friends i couldn't keep friends people wouldn't stay around and stop responding to my texts and you know outside externally like i'd meet people early days and they would love me and then i couldn't keep them around and so yeah i ended up being a person that was just drained all the time and it was draining people and yeah it it was rough and so that was probably the biggest one i had to do what does that mean when you say you watching your dad be alone you know i think when you see someone that you care about so much have aspects of their life that you you don't want it motivates you to not have that and so perhaps when you see that and you're not as developed in yourself yeah you don't really know how to handle it so you overextend so like you you compensate for your lacking of understanding with ego so your ego is being used as a tool to protect you because you don't have the resources and you're not equipped to be able to deal with it any other way so if you haven't resolved the things that have affected you and you're not able to deal with as a kid in your adult life uh it's going to show up in ego i feel yeah and i'm just exploring it i don't really know but if i'm beautiful if i'm thinking about it the kids get affected by things more than i think people realize you know i watched my on easter sunday that same day and it's just like it was just like heartbreaking to see i watched my uh niece my sister's daughter who's 18 months old like i watched something happen in the family that was just messed up and i watched her go from this bubbly joyful little girl who was just positive energetic the whole day to literally weeping bawling her eyes out and no words were exchanged it was all an energy and she knew something was up and she's gonna have to feel that and it was a context of her sister's leaving because they're her sisters little girls sisters were leaving to their dad because they're different dads and like she was crying because her sisters were leaving her right and watching that and you just go like that girl's gonna have to resolve that like she's gonna feel like she's probably gonna have more of an anxious attachment style and me just putting two together it only makes sense imagine every week feeling like your sisters are abandoning you and leaving you and you don't have the resources the intellect to understand why that's happening so you just cry so you can start to understand right when that happens enough and all these different things in your family are fighting or you see people acting a different way or complaining about money or or arguing or screaming when they're in traffic when you start to see all of these different things before you understand and have the intellect to be able to process it and the resources to be able to process it it's just gonna show up in different ways as a safety mechanism for you because you don't actually understand you know something's wrong but you don't know what it is so then you just overextend with ego you overextend with emotion whatever it is right and so i just think that when i look at stuff about happening in my childhood and and even just in my later teens and growing up i had to look really deep within to realize like it takes a lot of agency to go why do my friends keep leaving me why do people not want to be around why am i getting so much praise online millions of views people saying i'm the most amazing person ever but i have no one to call do you think it's everyone else leaving me or do you think it's something about me if i keep having friends leave me that must tell me that there's something going on and yeah when i was in bondi living there a couple years ago it was the first time where it really got awakened to me because i went i've changed like five friend groups in two years and we went like this and then like this why and it forced me to look within and one of the things i realized was well i'm just overextending being extra loud to try and like show my worth it's all ego driven and so that's probably one of the biggest ones that i've been yeah trying to resolve and and shed certainly not fully gone i don't know if it'll ever be fully gone but just i think the first step is awareness and i'm well aware of it and it's just about um improving it well mate it's not lost on me what it takes to have that level of sort of self-awareness and vulnerability to be able to share and so thank you i'm sure there's so many people listening that will find themselves in that story and i can certainly in in similar but different ways you know and i want to dissect that part when you say it's all ego because i love the quote that says the only thing trying to get rid of the ego is the ego itself mm-hmm and in some ways there's a real healing happens when we bring to the compassion to the part of ourself that doesn't fully feel accepted like the part of us that feels like it has to be loud or the part of us that feels like we have to overextend there's a video in fact that i really want to show you as i was doing my research and i was doing a lot of research and i was doing a lot of research for this podcast and it's a video of you and i just want to are you cool if i play it for you of course and it's a video of you from a while ago um and i just watched the video and i just really want to know where where were you in in your headspace at this season of your life play it out this one's for all the high achievers out there take a big breath in and a big breath out and just sit back and reflect how much you've done in the past six months 12 months 18 two years think about how far you've come i think it's so easy to always chase the next thing and and always want more what's important to remember is it's not the destination that we're going to remember and it's not the destination that we're going to remember and it's not the destination that it's the journey that got us there it's the journey that we're going to cherish it's the journey that we're going to tell our kids about so sit back take a big deep breath and look at how far you've come because i guarantee you it'll really make you feel grateful and it'll make you motivated to achieve have a good day guys oh it's not the destination you will cherish it's the journey this one's down yeah uh geez you've saved some good ones in here wow yeah um yeah i was i was battling i was in a job that i didn't like and i only was in the job because the software company that i had failed and i just couldn't seem to get it to crack like i couldn't seem to get anything to work out you know i was three years into my journey of real entrepreneurship i moved to i graduated 2019 and i i was doing a lot of business and stuff and i stopped really going to school in that year and and uh and then the next year i moved to sydney which was the 2020 and then that was 2022 and i just think i people seem to see my transformation from say the last two three years and how much it's like really transformed but i just connect all the dots from all the stuff before that that was off camera all of the lonely walks around golf course all of the girls that stopped talking to me all the businesses that would fail all the people that misunderstood what i was doing all the people that talk shit and um and it's just this constant feeling of like fuck i'm just trying dude i'm trying and and i always used to say and i still do that i'm trying and and i always used to say and i still do that i'm trying and and i'm trying and and i'm trying and and i always used to say and i still do that i'm trying and and i always used to say and i still do that i'm trying and and i always used to say and i still do still to this day, like just trying to have a crack, I'm just trying to have a crack. Hey, and whenever you're near me and my best friend, Sam, it's like, we're best friends beyond anyone, any, any close. Like I would, I would rather like sleep in the same bed. with him than like be in a different city like it's like you know it's just like nothing like it you know and um and we always just have these things where we're the only people that actually get us um we can finish each other's sentences we can like it's a bond i've never ever seen the only bond that feels similar to it is andrew and tristan pate like i literally don't know anyone else ever seen online in person anywhere that has anything close to what sam and i have like we've like we've had situations where we've been in business together and they're failing and we've butted heads we've shared a bed but it was a mattress on the floor because the bed got moldy we like did everything we merged our bank accounts just to pay rent at times and buy food and whatever we could we had lost everything we had you know gotten blackout drunk we've had moments where i'm probably lucky to be alive like we've had so many highs so many lows and and it's built us to this point where like nothing can get in between us it's like it's like a bond like like nothing else matters no like no one else matters respectfully um and and yeah and and it's just like there's a there's a level of comfort that comes with that like like literally we i could be having the worst day yeah and i can just text him and be like hey man and we say this thing like hey man and he'll be like hey man and i'll feel everything will know every time will go away let's you just a hey man and um and uh and i just like i go back to those times and i don't think i had same in my life at that time um actually uh there was a bit of a falling out and and i was just alone yeah and i was just like i had nothing and and um and i had no idea what i was going to do and and i was really trying like i i haven't stopped sprinting since i was 17 years old and i just haven't and i've been like i've been doing everything taking the most copious amounts of risks like finally like i'll have a little bit of freedom and i'll be like fuck yeah i can risk it all again and like double down and double down and go go go and um and and yeah it's cool seeing those ones because you know that was september 2022 so yeah a bit under four years ago like three and a half years and and it's crazy how much life's changed yeah mate i admire you so much for what you've created in the world but even bigger than that maybe unbeknownst to you watching that video i can tell you're lonely and i've have people go back on my tiktok and find when i first started posting in 2020 you can see it on my face that everything i'm sharing is for me before it's for everybody else and what i admire most in you is that in many ways your journey has been public and you haven't allowed the absence of of Having it all figured out to interrupt, to use your words, you just having a crack. And to bring this conversation full circle, I asked you what is confidence and how do you develop it? And you just said, like, just try. And I think that video is the epitome of it. You know, you were going through it and you just were having a crack. And if you can pass me your phone, I'm going to find a video on there of when I feel like I first started to get a little lick of the ice cream. So click on the middle one. I'm running on the beach in Santa Monica. Watch this. Spaz, I'm running here in Santa Monica, California. I'm fucking proud of myself because I made it on the other side of a dark place. I made it to a place that I never could have imagined. I kept going when everyone. Straight from the heart. It's fine. I took a bet on me and I followed through on that. And I'm nowhere near where I want to be yet. But I'm sure a whole lot further than I ever thought I could be. And for that, I'm proud. Now, there's one thing I want to thank the most. I want to thank the hard times. I want to thank all the shit that I went through. Because those very moments are the things that make me feel so good right now. I have comparison. I can compare the good to something. So that good becomes great. Keep fucking going. Because you may not see the light at the end of the tunnel. But I didn't either. But what I did know was that if I didn't quit, I was going to make it eventually. And then when I look back on my life now, I'm so glad I took a part of myself, baby. And you should be too. Because if you're in the hard time right now, you're one of the rare breed. They're actually willing to give something a red or a crack. As opposed to sit on the sidelines. So keep going. And when no one believes in you, make sure that you believe in you. Because it will pay off, baby. And I promise. That is a promise that I'm going to make to you. Woo! Life is crazy, man. Let's go! This is quite an emotion. What date was that? Click on the date. September 18th. September 18th, 2024. So exactly. Exactly two years after that first video. The one that I just showed you. Yeah. And so, so like exactly two years from that point to there was like full life transformation. Like I'd moved over to, not moved to, first time in America, I'd flown me and my videographer over and we traveled around the U.S. for six weeks, exploring the U.S. and interviewing people and, and on a podcast tour around the U.S. And like two years ago, I was just like, I was like, I'm going to do this. Just like working a job that I hated just as like a guy that was completely lost partying every weekend. I just think you asked about like the moments and like that was one where like it felt so real. And the reason I said like, oh, the one thing I want to thank the most is the hard times is because for me, I felt like that's what made it all worthwhile. Like all of those were those comparison points that made the good great and it's what made nothing. Feel like everything, because all of the shit made me feel okay with like, at least I'm not in pain right now. Like I might not be like striving so much, but like, at least I'm not in like crippling anxiety, like having that comparison point just makes everything so much greater. And that was a very emotional run because I, I got all this like rush of stuff hit me out of the blue, um, on that run in Santa Monica. But yeah, two years. What version of you were you speaking to when you were saying, I'm so proud? Every one of them, because that one that you saw two years ago was a, was a evolved version. People didn't see the one before that when I was working in the bar, shaking cocktails and filling up a flask with the gray goose swallows out the back of the shift. So then I could finish up. And when I was flirting with all the girls on my shift and giving them free cocktails, I could then. And then like clock off early and sit down at their, at their table at the bar and drink the gray goose because I couldn't afford to buy the drinks. Like that version was before that. And then before that was when I'd raised all this money for the software company. And when the business was failing, I was walking around this golf course alone and I couldn't even sit alone. So I'd go down my contacts and I would just go down and call everyone that I think would pick up so I could at least just not sit in my own thoughts. And then the time before that was when I moved to. Sydney and all of my family were calling me like raging, like saying, don't do it. You got like, what are you going to do? Rather, rather, rather. But one before that was when I stopped going to school because I was learning entrepreneurship and getting into business. And then I'd come back and all my kids, friends at the state school were saying, oh, hey, Mr. Businessman, I stopped answering all of my calls. It's like every single one of them. In but it results in embarking on more loneliness. And in the moment, it just sucks. And you start questioning everything and then you get out the other side. And when you connect the dots, looking back, you're like, oh, I'm not going to do this. You just see that all of them has made you who you are and what you're proud of. And, um, and, and I wouldn't change a thing because that's all the thing that led me to where I am. And yeah, that's the, that's the key piece that why I like look at those and any other variation of a video like that, that I've made. It's like I speak it like I genuinely mean it because I feel every single part of it. Me watching that video. I can find myself in every moment where I felt like I was left out or left behind or laughed at or ridiculed or made to feel as though I didn't belong. And I could feel a mixture of pride, but also anger at all the people who ever maybe betrayed you or doubted you or left you out, or I'm just, did you ever see? That piece, how did you ever, how did you relate to that piece of the journey? The feeling that you were being, you know, said to me before i had like five friend groups in two years how did you make sense of that well you don't make sense of it in the moment i don't think but as i said in that video it's like if you're in one of those times good on you because you're in a rare breed of people that are actually willing to give something a red hot crack like you i'm trying to achieve great things i've always been and to achieve them i've needed to have this delusional confidence and this delusional optimism that like i'm not even thinking about the failure like even i brought my brother over here he now works for me and and like i've not had security and certainty ever since when i was 17 i've not i've not had like every pursuit has been in business where like aside from a few different jobs where i had a paycheck coming in everything has not been guaranteed yeah right so you develop this thing where like you're so okay with it but when you're in a state where nothing's guaranteed you need to believe it's going to work or what's the point of doing it imagine having no guarantee and thinking it's not going to work and then still pursuing it the only way you're going to win is by having that like undeniable belief that it's going to happen and it's going to work and most of the time it doesn't in which case everyone's right when they say it's not going to work but the times that it does work is the one that matters because then you've you've succeeded and so even i'm telling with my brother now like his work ethic will drop because the outcome's not guaranteed yeah so he might go oh if i do a hundred outreach messages cold like people might not even respond and then we might not even be able to sell the thing and then we're not even going to make any money it's like i'm not even thinking about it i'm not even thinking about it i'm not even thinking about not making money i'm tying myself to the fact that i know that my close has got a 50 close rate if we send a hundred messages out then we might get because we have a big following we might get 40 responses we might get 20 calls booked in or 10 calls booked in and then we might get five sales and the five sales might result in fifty thousand dollars extra a month so then like if i'm if i'm thinking in that way of course i'm going to do the outreach right and of course we don't have any certainty but i think that all of them are going to be going to be going to be going to be moments it's all been uncertain and it's developed a muscle where you're okay in the uncertainty and more importantly you have the confidence in the uncertainty that it will work and then equally when it doesn't work out you're not phased so you just move on to the next thing yeah there's a passage in the bhagavad-gita that says and i'm going to butcher it but it says in essence you're entitled to the work but not the outcome and the peace is found in just following through on the pursuit of the work letting go of the outcome altogether and for me what has allowed me particularly as it pertains to this podcast or anything beautiful that has ever happened in my life has been to let go of the outcome in its entirety for example the podcast is i can't imagine i can't i can't even believe how well it's doing two weeks in 12 million people have seen it we've only released three episodes and there were so many moments in the creation of the podcast but it's so much more than that it's so much more than that i mean you talked about it the it took us if people would have seen what it took us to get just to posting a piece of content online if i would have known what it would have taken just to get to one piece of content being posted online i would have given up before we even began there's no way you would have done it no no not a fucking prayer would i have done it but that statement has freed me in so many ways because i am entitled to the work i'm entitled to the work and i'm not entitled to the outcome and i think that's what has allowed the outcome to be as fruitful as it is whereas you know i look at i've gotten so many messages fortunately i'm really grateful for them for people asking how some of them are your clients asking how this has blown up and how it's done so well and i really believe in the deepest place inside of me it's because i let go and we have let go in its entirety of the outcome yes the clips have done well but when i'm here in this conversation i'm with you and i'm focused on if we move these mics and shut off these cameras how can i have the most fucking powerful conversation with you and i just think that so many people get lost in the focus on how this is going to reach the people that it needs to reach so that they can go viral so that it can expand their career and that's where it loses substance and depth and as i look at you and the content i mean you've built one of the biggest podcasts in australia you're on the verge of building one of the biggest ones in the podcast in the world and i think where has that come from and what have i studied in you that exists beyond anything you could have created in this course or anything you could have said to me and it's the heart it's the heart and i just don't think you can replace heart i just don't think you can replace heart and so as we begin to close this out i want to say thank you to you for the manner in which you've shown up with heart not only today but over the course of the past five years even when you've had no idea how it's going to unfold so thank you the final thing that i feel really called to know from you chris and it's because i've done a few podcast episodes but nowhere near as many as you is of all the episodes you've done and all the interviews you've had what has someone said that you knew when they said it you would never forget no one gives a fuck about you and if you think they do stop being so self-centered and humble yourself no one cares and you're being so arrogant to think that they do you are getting in your own way and stop being so self-centered and get out of your own way chris griffin this has been an unbelievable pleasure mate thank you for taking the time thank you for making the space thank you for showing up with heart and power and purpose thank you for contributing to this podcast and the conversation in a magical way thank you for your vulnerability and also the wisdom that has emerged from it it um it's not lost on me what it takes and the places you have to go to discover the sense of awareness that you've developed inside of yourself so thank you it's been an honor thank you so much billy you're crushing it and i'm excited to play a role and keep helping you grow it's exciting times cheers mate thank you