Welcome to Red N Yello, the podcast about all things to do with referring at grassroots level, looking at the laws of football, speaking to guests and trying to help you become a better referee with Adam Humphries and me Ed Connell. Well hello Ed and welcome to episode three, listen up to what's this called Red or Yellow podcast. How are you Adam? You well? Yeah I'm not too bad thanks, I'm a bit sleepy, had a bit of a stressful week but all right what about yourself? Well I've been better, I'd work my collarbone on Saturday and came off my bike. Of course, I'm in a world of pain if I'm being brutally high. Oh and now we're going through law three. And now is light relief for me. And for the listener. And just to get people excited is I'm sure everyone know law three is entitled The Players. And what did I say at the end of last week's episode 22 on each team didn't I? We did exactly. We read the laws, you'll be better off this week than you were last week. You know it would have been wise to have rewrote the law wouldn't it? It would have been yeah. So yeah so right, well should we crack on because like always kind of under strict times. So this week or in between the last episode and this episode we actually have a listener question to go through. How is that? I mean we had more than one listener question we actually have the opportunity of selecting a listener question. It was one that you got. I don't know whether they were from the UK or from Australia, it didn't really matter. I don't suppose they really want to be identified but you should probably sort of set the scenes to who the author was and their age and what they were doing and then we got a lot of chat about it. Well I think the first thing to note because everybody's listening in on tender hooks. Is that a beer I see Edward? It's pain relief. So the first thing to say is that this question came in via our email which I was just certainly also, which is also email red or yellow pod at gmail.com isn't it? If you think in how did these people get these questions through to out to wonderful minds, that's how to email us red or yellow pod at gmail.com quite straightforward. And yeah and this this young lad from I think it's quite for cheer somewhere in the UK. Helen she filled in Helen she filled in a halem show account here. He worked for he was doing a Sunday league games. She filled in Helen. And where did you say it was hunt for cheer? I thought it was hunt for cheer from another. Yeah I know the difference in the places. So yeah and he's a young dish lad. But he was doing his second game of the season and he said that in the 30th minute. And he was running down the wing with the ball. A foul was committed and he went over to the linesman to ask what he saw. And then he missed this might have been where he made his first mistake because it was a club linesman. And the referee who emailed us he said he had seen the opposition player go flying in. Sorry. So the referee who emailed us said that the club linesman said he had seen the opposition player go flying in stud showing straight into the ankle. I sort of believed him because the player was bleeding from the ankle and had to be sucked off and carried off. I showed a straight red card to the player who made the tackle to the display of the coaches as he was the best winger. What I want to know is should I listen to the club linesman or and should I have shown a red card. So I sent it over to you tonight. We kind of had a bit of a back and forth about it. And I went back to him with some questions. So I questioned I said. Did you see the tackle with excessive force with your own lines? If you did, why did you go to the linesman? And if you didn't see a tackle with excessive force, what did you see? And he replied with I saw the tackle but wasn't certain if it was excessive force. I went to the linesman just to confirm, but it was probably a silly thing to do with a club linesman. I had a lot of different things going through my mind, which is totally understandable. And it was yeah, it was men. It was his first red card. I think he's ever given. And that's kind of the context of the situation. I think it's a really great question. It's a great question, particularly for those people who referee at grassroots because this sort of thing happens. For me, I don't know about you. I don't know the last time you refereed with club linesman, but I mean. Well managed it's been a while. Well, most of my refereeing involves either club linesman or no linesman tool. And that does create real problems. I, if I've got club linesman, I always have a chat with them beforehand. I want to make sure I know their level of understanding of things up the laws. And I usually say I'm principally interested in offside decisions. That really would be what I'd really like to help you with. But for me to actually give it, you have got to have credibility. So if you're not level with the last man when you flag it, the likelihood is I'm going to over all you. So, you know, if you're going to keep up with the line of play, then that'll help me. And I'll go with your decisions. I then say to them, make sure they understand the offside rule because you'd be surprised not everybody does. And I then will say to them, look, if you see. Throw in or you see corners, either ones that are close to you, we have a good view of them. Then by all means flag them. But if you don't see them, don't guess because I'll do that. I'll be able to make the decision myself. And finally, I always say to them, I'm not interested in, in free kicks or fouls. I don't think that's sort because. You know, they're not properly traded and understand the laws. And I think it's just a dangerous game. If you start inviting your assistants to start giving those sorts decisions. And I then can tell the captains exactly that. And I'll say to them, you need to understand we've got club lines, I told them I'll give the decisions. If I think they're the right place, otherwise I'll over all them and I'll orderly tell you. That I'm over all them. I told them about off, you know, about throwing some corners, but I told them no fouls. And so everybody kind of knows where you are from the outset. Yeah. I mean, I completely agree with what you're saying. I think, I think, but I think also what I would say is the only reason in which we know this is because we've also been that person on that field at that time. Right. So we've all made this mistake to start with. And we've all had to learn to be able to tell club lines, man. You ain't giving me fouls. And I would literally say that I've literally given my flag. I'd go corners, throwins, if it's near, that's all I need you for today. I'm in charge of this game. I don't need you getting involved in the discussion. And I'll say that in front of the captains on the pitch as well. And you might think that's a bit rude and a little bit, I know a little bit up a tea, but I just think it sets the stall out clear. It's like, there is clear. I don't want to get into a discussion with them about if they understand offside. Sorry. That's a lie. I do also ask for them for offside. I also go, look, you know, like it is what it is. Like you played to the whistle of offside. That's it. Just because that flag goes up doesn't mean it's offside because I'm going to make that call based on their information. They're more advising me rather than telling me. The good thing about communicating to that, to everybody at the start is that if the flag goes up, it free, green, does from offside decision where they're miles away from the sort of the last man. And I immediately shout very audibly play on not offside. And most people to be fair to most players when they look across and see where the position of the, you know, your assistant is and see their miles away. They fully understand as to why you've made that decision. But I think the biggest problem here is that I was always told that you only give what you see. And, you know, here he was, he didn't see a red card. That's the bottom line. Yeah. I wasn't sure it was a red card. And so the bottom line for me is, he shouldn't have given it. Now, the question then is as to how you manage that situation. And so, also things that flow from that. I think the first thing that I would do. And I was, I think, alertness from you and from other referees is that if you're honest with the players and explain what your position is that they will understand it. So, you know, I've been in positions before where, you know, people are shouted for a foul or throw in. And I've simply had to explain to them that I'm really, I didn't see it. If I'd seen it, I'd have obviously given it. But my view is, or structured or didn't have a great view of it. I'm not going to give things that I don't see. And I think people kind of respect that if they, you know, because you're just really telling them I've got my limitations. Yeah. And I think the thing we then discussed about was. If he was going to go and speak to the assistant, I personally wouldn't have done. But I can see why some people might do that. I think I thought about how I might have sold out a bit better. So I think I might have said to. You know, the captain in my view, that was a red card. I think it was a dangerous tackle. But I appreciate the assistant was very close to it. I just want to make sure there's nothing he's going to say. There's going to suggest I've got it wrong. Yeah. So like, I think, I think with this, I think firstly, fundamentally, it seems like to me, if there's blood on the ankle when the guy had to be stretched off. Chances are, it probably was a tackle of excessive force. I'd probably say as well in the context of. Probably what happened in that moment when that tackle went in. And then I think I was going to say, I think that's what happened in the moment. I think that was a very serious problem. If I would call the guy over who committed the tackle and I would go look, I'd be so stunned and it's easy for me to say as a 35 year old six foot four big-aid, lanky loud, very authoritative person on the football field. But you know if you're not that kind of person this is a hard conversation to have. I'd call the player over who committed the foul and I would say look I can't guarantee that I can't give you a red card for this because I didn't see it. That doesn't mean I don't think it happened and you are one very lucky, very lucky person. And if you do anything else in this pitch today, you're going to, you know, I'm going to book you like you are under my careful watch because you've got so lucky today is unbelievable. So on another day, if I was a step closer, if I just looked at the right time, at the right moment, you'd be walking and he'd understand that as well and at that point, he might even own up to it because he knows like, okay, that's fair, you're being honest, you're being open. You can even do that and just admit you didn't see it. And then obviously with the team who have had the foul against them, you just have to go look guys, I'm only human, I can't help it, I'm sorry, it was one of those moments, so I appreciate he's hurt himself, I'll give you the free kick, I can't send him off if I haven't seen it. But you just have to, you just have to flesh out the whole situation rather than expect, oh, they need a decision, I need to give a decision, I need to give a footballing decision. In some ways, you need to give a more human decision. Do you think from a game management perspective, though, I mean, I think in those situations, I haven't seen absolutely whether there's a red card or not. I think I would give me yellow. Yeah, and that's why I was about to say, I would say, yeah, sorry, I wasn't, but you're right. And then the other thing is, a lot of people will be happy as long as you take action. So in that chat with him, I would be like, you're so lucky you're only getting a yellow card. I'd stuff it right off this face. I'd hold it for a long time, I would make sure he looks at it and like, I'm right on top of him as I do it. So he feels very, very small at that point in time. Just so that he knows that I wouldn't accept tackles like that, whether I've got, whether I've seen it or whether I haven't, that I'm not accepting behaviour like that on this football pitch. And so, yeah, you definitely need to be seen to do something in the situations like that, players and managers and everyone, they seem to get less, they seem to get more annoyed when you don't do something as opposed to if you do do something. So was it a red or is it yellow? It probably was a red. I reckon you probably got the right decision, but if you didn't see it as hard for him to actually give it. So therefore, give it yellow. You've given something you said on not accepting this, you've put up your tolerance level and that's that job done. The only other option you had was to just lie about it was to go, yeah, that's fine. Like without seeing the club lines or the club lines were probably going, oh, the goodest bad tackles, bad tackles, just run over, judge a situation and go I reckon on balance it, probably as a red and just give the red and go. And so that's a much harder cell and you have to be very confident in that and I wouldn't advise doing that very often. Personally, I'd advise going route one rather than the second route there because I don't think we're in a good place when referee start lying about decisions. No, I agree that. But I think though, if you are going to go down route two and you're pretty short as a red, but your view wasn't brilliant. A great tip I've given by senior referees that I've refereed before and been assistant to before is they also don't rush into decisions. Because sometimes for example, you can walk over there, you can see by the reaction of everybody that was close to it that it was an outrageous tackle. And you can judge from the player's reactions that it was a definite red. I know you didn't see it, but I think sometimes it just, you know, sometimes you're very keen to start taking action straight away. And I think sometimes you just have to sort of take a moment, take in the situation and then make a decision. And as I say, sometimes the reaction of the players and other people on the side lines you saw it will help you come to the right decision, whether I'm going to be sorry. And also players, players, players, what I'm going to say, completely lost my train of thought. I've had a brain fart there. Oh, so players really often tell you decisions. So when it comes to when it comes to goal kicks, corners, stuff like that, I'm always saying to my assistants that we don't need to give the decision. Like we'll just let the players tell us and then we'll just follow suit. And that way we've got no worries at all about anything. Obviously the lower down the leagues you go, the less honest players are, the less obvious these things are, the more contested these little decisions are. But you're right, the more time you give to give a decision, the easier those decisions become because slowly but surely more facts become aware. And the only time you need to get in quick is when you feel like a mask confrontation is happening. And that's when you need to step in and really kind of get to the situation quickly. But no, you're right. Take your time, think things through. If you're going to go to the line, just on the only other thing I'd say here as well, and I do this with my actual line, I don't ask them, like I had one last season at runner-up, where you bay and player went down, there was a collision. I didn't see it. So I went up to my line, and I went, what did you see? And he went, I said, Red card. I went, no, no, that's not why I asked. I said, what did you see? And he went, guy came in, he made contact with him, sent him in the air and he landed on the floor. I was like, right, that's what you saw. He was like, yeah, I'm like, then that's not Red card. And because I found out what he actually saw, I knew it wasn't Red card. I managed to get him to think it through a little bit more. And then we came to the right decision. It was a yellow card and away we went. And the gauging, the reaction thing is so helpful, you know, and circumstances like where is it a corner or not, right? You kind of walk slowly towards the corner. And you know, you'll find the goal you've started setting the defenders out to defend the corner, you know, or the players often tell you, as you say, by their actions as to what, you know, is going to happen next without you have to make the decision. So it's quite helpful just to have that moment of pause. But I thought it was a great question though, tough, tough situation to find yourself in sort of a young person, you know, referee. Absolutely. Absolutely. And like, and also like fair play, fair play to the lab because one, you know, he's clearly thinking about it, whether he's made the right decision or not. He's got a conscience, which is a great position to be in his referee. And also he's reached out for help. And he's like, I'm not sure. I need more clarity on this and everything. And that's why it's such a great question. And that's why I'm so proud of him. And so, so happy and glad that he felt he could reach out to us as well. So like, even though, you know, we're giving you advice for the future, it still seems to me like it probably was the right decision. So feel confident in that. I just think sometimes the key thing we need to do in refereeing is working on what's called the process, is work on the process of how we get to that decision. And that process changes based on the different football field that you're on. And you know, you just have to work through that. And that's basically the kind of advice we're giving you there, buddy. So, look, you keep going. And if you have any more issues throughout the season, you've clearly got a wee amount of trust. So always well, we spent quite a bit of time on that as a question, but it was a great question. I think it was probably track on with one three. Yeah, move on to the law number three. Super duper, what's it called? The players. The players. I looked on the iFab app again just to see what changes the word for the season was a bit confused because they have a little section where they tell you what the new parts have changed each year. And for law three, the big change they said for this year was the five substitutions that you're going to have in the Premier League. Yeah. Which I thought was in force. Yeah, I've probably been forced for a couple of years, but that was what they put into their new section. But we'll come onto that in a moment because that's obviously one of the fundamental important bits of the law. But yeah, what do you want to start with on this? Well, I'm supposed to first thing to know about all three is it's broken down into nine different sections. There's like nine chapters of law three, isn't that? And the first one is the number of players. So really like on that, we all know we have 11 players, two teams, each with the maximum 11 players. One must be the goalkeeper. So despite what we used to do at school when school playgrounds, you can't play Russia or you can't play, you can't play no goalies. And a match may not start or continue if either team has fewer than several players. Yeah, that's the most important. I mean, I hope you're never going to find yourself in a position where you've kind of doubted some less than seven players, but that's the only one you can remember. I hate that phrasing. I wish it would just say a match may not start or continue if a team has six players rather fewer than seven. It really confuses me. And when I first started, I used to really worry about this situation coming up. Now 10 years into a career, I've never had a team of less than seven players. So it really doesn't matter. I've come close to it a few times where teams can't feel the team than that. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Let's come up for me, with self without 10 players on a side or whatever, but yeah, that's only if it's a constant change in the game. So if a team starts with seven players and then one of them goes off for a little bit and comes back on, play continues. Because it says if a team has fewer than seven players because one or more players has deliberately left the field of play, the referee is not obliged to stop play and the advantage may be played, but the match was not resumed off that the board has gone out of play. Yeah, so that's why it goes outplayed and then he down to six and it does. Have to wait. Yeah, that's cool. And if the competition will stay to all players and substitutes must be named before kickoff and the team starts a match with fewer than 11 players, only the players and substitutes named on the team on the team list may take part in the match upon their arrival. So that's kind of irrelevant at my level, but it's probably not relevant.
on the on kind of, you know, the fields of London kind of level because you don't get team sheets. No, an important thing is you need to know about players named in numbers for the purposes of giving back the match report to the league at the end of all, to deal with any sanctions. Substitution wise, I think, so that's section two, number of substitutions, yeah. So this is, so most people now be familiar with those people who watch the sort of Premier League or international football will realize now that you can have up to five substitutes. And the thing that's foxtaphew people and even a Premier League manager at the beginning of the season, I think got it wrong is that you can only do those five substitutions. That's three opportunities. Opportunities. Yeah. And half time is excluded from that. So you can make a substitution at half time that uses that one of your five, but doesn't use that one of your three opportunities. Equally, if you're playing in competition, where you go from full time to extra time, if you do a substitution at that stage, again, that uses that one of your five substitutions, but doesn't use that one of your three breaks. But that's what people think of a bit of a bit baffled by this season and trying to work out. Well, I think that's makes substitution. Me too. So in Australia or here in Queensland, that's a law in any competition that's not got role and role of socks. Yeah. And I thought it was a competition role. I thought it was something just Australia did weird. But I didn't realize it was a law until obviously I read the law in preparation for this podcast. So that was, that was, it was to me and it's a nightmare. God, because, and you know what, it's a nightmare because my referee pad, when I have to track it and on like the senior lineman, my referee pad doesn't have its all split up as opportunities. To end up writing so many numbers next to all the names and stuff. And you constantly get like dog outs asking, how many of you have got left? How many opportunities have we got left? Oh, wait, I've got five. Oh, wait, I did one half times as I can't. And you're trying to give off sides while they're trying to figure out if they can bring a player or not. I mean, that's why it's really helpful. You've got proper assistants or or for fish. If you have some no fishes worrying about all that for you and you don't worry about it. One thing I couldn't quite follow was that it said six substitutions maximum for non-international, non sort of, you know, premier league type games. Because it's the elite leagues of FIFA countries that have adopted this for their senior league and for international footballers, I understand it. And it said, apart from that though, six substitutions max can we move both teams agree beforehand as what it says? It says, well, substitutes may be named. So you can have 12 substitutes. Yeah. But you can only use six of them. Yeah, I think that's right. But you can use more if both teams agree in advance and it's not banned by the rules, particularly competition you're referring in. Yeah. If the referee is not informed or if no agreement is reached before the match, each team is allowed a maximum of, oh, so if the referee is not informed or if no agreement is reached before the match. Yeah. So that would mean if it's not in your competition rules. Yeah. It's not in your competition rules, or if you're friendly in both teams, you're allowed a maximum of six substitutes. Yeah. I was not interested. Cool. And you're not bound, it seems, by the the opportunities substitute. So unlike the sort of the premier league where that has to be done in three occasions, I think for everything apart from the top leagues of most countries, it's as and when you want them is my understanding. And I think the thing that I think is always worth remembering. And I'm sure almost every referee does know this, but all name players and substitutions are subject to the referee whether they're on the field or play or not. I think that you know, there's any only confusion. You have your thoughts over anybody who's named on that team sheet, including the substitution managers. That means yellow carding. Yeah. Managers, people on the bench, etc, etc. So, and worth reminding yourself of that. It does sometimes happen that you have to be able to call somebody at the yellow card manager not long ago, referring to children's football. Absolutely. I'll tell you some stories about that. I'm sorry, sorry to the listeners, I just need to interlude here and we're going to have to stop the podcast recording because it is wearing a Scotland shirt. Well, there aren't many tops. I can actually get my arm into that. Oh bless you. Excrishating pain. Okay. I'll let you off. Four tops are quite good and I'm a very proud Scotland supporter. I'll let you off just because just because you're breaking collarbone and and and and we are now in the UEFA nation's league league one. Thank you. We're in the way. It's not often that I can sit up on the highlands looking down on the fellow nations. Who's going to the World Cup? Oh, I don't know. No, right. Okay. So now the substitution procedure is chapter three. We've got six different. I think if we got into, oh, yeah, substitution procedure, is that include about changing the goalkeeper? I think so. I'm not sure. Should we go through it and then we'll figure that out. Yeah. Because the names of the substitutes must be given to referee at the start of the match. Any substitute not named may not take part. That's very important. If the sub hasn't been made aware to you at the start of the game, they can't take part in the match. The referee must be informed before any sub is made. So people can't just run and off the pitch. The player in the substitute receives the referee's permission to leave the field of play and less already off the field like are you an interior or something like that? Must leave by the nearest point on the boundary line. So that means you can't leave on a goal line as to be on the touch line. Yeah, there's the slow walk. Does boundary line not include goal line? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it's a sin. It's in Premier League players walking off back beside the go. I think boundary just means the boundary. I also wouldn't overthink that if the guys get off the pitch then get off the pitch. Yeah. This is just to prevent the usual tactic of let's do a bit of time wasting. I'll go down with cramp in the corner flag for the bench and I'm going to slowly hobble my off. Yeah, that's a very sensible law change that came in not long ago. Yeah. And must go immediately to the technical area or dressing room and takes no further part in the match except where substitutions, where return subs are permitted. If a player who is to be substituted refuses to leave play continues. So if you got like that striker who doesn't want to come off like a palo de canio then you just carry on the matter. When Kepa refused to go off in the end of the cup final. Yeah, that's a more up to date. Well, if I come to your sorry, I can't remember. I can't remember. We've had so many managers in the last few years. So and this is the other important thing. The substitute only enters during the stoppage in playing at the halfway line which even at my level substitute still don't seem to remember that and it's really annoying. After the player being replaced as left and after receiving a signal from the referee. Now that halfway line one on the fields on the grassroots level is very difficult to enforce. Yeah, I wouldn't waste time trying to. No. But yeah, anything higher than that has got to happen in the halfway line. Not two yards from the halfway line, not from the technical area on the halfway line. I'm very pedantic about that much to many substitutes and I was. Four is change the goalkeeper and that's really just to say anybody on the field of play can change places with the goalkeeper. But the referee must be informed before the change is made and the change must be made during a stoppage in play. So it can't happen whilst you know kind of your defender swapping shirts the goalkeeper whilst the team are attacking. So none of that nonsense. And that's be on notice to you. Is that part four part five? If that's the same sentence part. If a named substitute starts a match instead of a name player and the referee is not informed of this change, the referee allows the name substitute to continue playing. No disciplinary action may be taken against the name substitute. The name player can become a named substitute. The number of substitutions is not reduced. The referee reports the incident to the appropriate authorities. So I thought that was quite helpful to know because that sort of thing does happen and the bottom line is no action taken by you apart from reporting it to the appropriate legal authority to know that's what did it occur. That's a really long way of going just play football, isn't it? What's really long I'm saying that anybody who starts the game doesn't get guarded because they weren't on the team. It's like, look, if you've got 11 players at the start of the game and everyone's happy they're part of the team. Yeah, do you know what I mean? See things like that, I read that and it just trips you up and then I look at it, I go, it just basically means get on with playing football, doesn't it? Really? Every substitution is made during a half time interval or for a short time. The procedure must be completed before the match starts. So that means like get the guy on the halfway line before the game starts and then just let him come on. Don't just let him start in the line up of the team just before kick off. And again, it's the same thing again if it does happen and you're not told about it, then there's no sanction other than you telling the appropriate authorities. And then the gut situation about player changing with the goalkeeper without telling you, well both players get cautioned and the ball next goes out to play. Well, that could cause major issues, isn't it? Because like, say the substitute hasn't officially occurred. What happened there? We're getting massive static. Hello. Your microphone turned into a little guy good can't tell. Oh, we're okay now. Perhaps it's a little bit more aware of. So that could cause massive problems, I couldn't say two players in one of a game, will have changed substitute and they haven't informed you and like a centre back then becomes a goalkeeper but it's not officially been done and a shot goes in and then the centre back decides to save the
ball because he's now not officially hit people then you've got a red card. Let's just pray that doesn't happen. Also, why would say there, why would say there is if you end up in that situation then really that's the fault of the referee because if you see two players changing as like goalkeeper, send it back whatever just blow your whistle, stop play no matter what and get it done properly and then card them for not letting you know and for interrupting the game but just control that situation a lot better. Yeah, I mean I've had people try and do that before it's going to course again but it's rare it's very rare. Yeah, yeah it's very rare but I just think in situations like that because they much prefer a yellow card to a red card and so you just have to control that situation better and they should know better than to just just mock around like that really. Yeah, yeah, players and substitutes sent off a player who was sent off before submission of the team list cannot be named on the team list in any capacity. Yeah, that's fine. After being named on the team list and before kickoff may be replaced by a named substitute who cannot be replaced, the number of substitutions the team can make is not reduced. So that just basically means say you started with five substitutes or sorry say you started with seven named substitutes, you sent one off you know only got six named substitutes to work with and after the kickoff cannot be replaced which makes sense because it's a send off a named substitute who was sent off before or after the kickoff may not be replaced. That's pretty straightforward isn't it? Pretty straightforward. Extra persons on the third of plays part seven. The anything that always gives me sort of nightmares about this is this horror scenario of a goal being scored by somebody else coming on the pitch or deflecting off another player or somebody who comes on the pitch. Do you remember the balloon the beach ball? Yes, it's those sorts of scenarios that record you nightmares because you don't refresh your memory. I said don't refresh memory of this sort of part of the law every time I don't remember it. Are you telling me you don't go to sleep just reciting the laws? These sort of things would give me nightmares but I mean let's try and do this fairly quickly because the reality is you probably want to have a read to some point yourself part seven but yeah I mean it simply says here that the coach and other officials named on the team list with the exception of players substitutes are team officials. Anyone not named on the team list is the player substitute team officials and outside agent. The team official. That's what James Bond does that. It does sound very dramatic. If a team official substitute substitute or central player or outside agent enter the field of play the referee must only stop play if there's interference with play. Have the person move and play stops take a private dismounting action and if player stops the interference was by team officials substitute substitute or center player player starts the direct free kick or pentakek and it was by an outside agent player who starts the drop ball. So this is the bit that gives me nightmares then last paragraph. If a ball is going into the goal and the interference does not prevent the defending player playing the ball the goal is rewarded if the ball enters the goal even if context was made with the ball unless the interference was by the attacking team. You know I just I'm just I don't understand that so here I'm looking to read a few times today. Here I'm looking at this go in like it says if a team official substitute substitute or center of player outside agent enters the field of play the referee must only stop play if there's an interference with play. I would argue that if there is somebody on the pitch that shouldn't be on the pitch that is causing trouble you stop playing. I agree. So you never get to that later stage of the situation. I agree. Just stop playing and tell them to bugger on. That's my approach is if somebody's on the pitch it shouldn't be on the pitch. Let's not wait and see if they end up in difficult. That was so we had to interpret that nightmare last paragraph. Just stop playing. Basically means if it goes in and it's not somebody connected with the attacking team it's still a goal is that is how I interpret the last one. Well it's basically yeah because say it's like a defender trying to stop and the ball still goes in then you shouldn't penalise the attacking team for like say a substitute should come on in the middle of a cup final to try and stop a goal. The goal the goal would mean more than then you send in that player off to the team who's forward the goal. They'd want the goal so give the goal. But I also just just just stop the game. So you can see someone on that pitch this moment be there. And also like you can see intention of someone right so you can see where it's a physio just cut in the corner of a corner like you probably don't need to like as he's coming around to take a player you probably don't need to stop play that but you can see if there's a streak on the pitch or you can see if you know you've got a random fan on the pitch and it just think it's going to cause trouble so therefore just stop play. Yeah. Oh number eight. And then how do you restart play? Just drop more to the team. I just thought it would drop all the team around possession. I'll do. Part eight I think we do pretty quickly. I mean it just simply says if you reenter the field of play without getting permission of the referee then the person gets cautioned for entering the field of play without permission. Have you ever given a yellow card for that? I don't think I have because I don't I mean I don't think I have. No. It's technically it's if a guy enters and exits. So yeah, but technically a player could get a yellow card for leaving a yellow card for coming on and then it's a red card and it's a bit of I mean I wouldn't be giving red cards for that no matter who you are and you shouldn't really be booking you don't have to book a player for that really. Normally you might just be management but it's there if you really need it. If you've got a persistent infringer, if you've got a coach who's coming on to cause trouble stuff like that that's why it's therefore but again like all these things if you're preventative enough you shouldn't really be in those situations. And then part nine is about where goals are scored where there's an extra person for the player. This should never happen because you know everybody always counts players whenever there's a sort of break or substitution I don't you but I'm meticulous about checking I've got 11 players on each team but I can see how this could easily happen and really I think what this is saying is the if a goal is scored and you just cover that the an extra person on the pitch. But you have to realise that before you start playing. Before we restart play so it's got to be before you have to go back to the kickoff so if you discover they've got an extra player if it's the team that had the extra player that you've scored the goal is disallowed but it's not if it's an extra player on the team that conceded the goal which kind of makes sense but the really important thing is you said there it's all about when you make that discovery because if they've heard kickoff or it was you can play and then you discover it's too late you can you stop the game now the person removed but and report the instant but it's not a goal disallowed situation so that's the really important distinction need to remember yes oh part number 10 simply says that captains have no special status or privileges but have a degree of responsibility for the behaviour of the team and that's why you me and I think most referees will have a discussion with captains at the start the game explains them that you know you're going to come and speak to them if there's problems and you expect them to come and speak to you if there are problems and have an open dialogue and to spare your assistance abuse. Since I started the referee here I've had so many questions about what do I say to what do I say to captains at the start of play yeah they're nearly always laughing and then they're all they we start laughing and then we get really serious and they're all like what do you what do you say to them I'm like oh you know it's a secret you have to be one of my assistants to find out but generally I just I'm just like look you can say what you want to me this close and personal but if you're going to be at distance I'm going to shut you down and you're going to win this battle so you might as well shut up and crack on and then like at finals as well I was like how I was like how many I asked the captains how many finals have you played them and they're like oh no like two or three and I'll be like okay well we've done two or three this team have done two or three between them this weekend so you're in good hands we're very experienced so don't you worry and just let us do our job and we'll let you do yours and another thing I like to say to them as well is you you are the reason I have to blow my whistle I want to get through I want one of you to win 10-0 today because it means I don't have to do anything it means I've got an easy day you want to make my life difficult it's going to make your life difficult the more I blow my whistle it's because you're making me blow my whistle so if you don't want me to blow my whistle just don't do anything and we'll have a great game and they're like oh yeah that makes sense I'm like great let's go some big big school teacher vibes coming across there oh yeah I do get a bit of school teacher I'm a bit policeman like I suppose but it's true like it's true like you just you just have to say to them guys I'm only blowing my whistle because I have to because you're making me do it so don't look at me when I'm having to stop playing stuff it's because of you guys and that's and the more they realize that the better the other thing I'd say as well is if you can humanize yourself with captains it will an off-going long way of your match control um yeah you know asking what they do for work talk to them about a family make them realize that you're a human being as well you've had a tough day that you've been up since four o'clock in the morning whatever it might
be, just have conversations with them with like their people first. And I always like to make a note. I always make a note of the captain's name to the start, but as the game goes on, I try to listen out for people's names, because I always think it's much better if you haven't had a word with the players, to repeat infringements, so it's much more personal, if you can go to them and say, James, that's the last time. It just makes it a bit easier, and shows you're paying attention as well. So there we go, let's law number three. It's slightly more practical, really than laws one and two, although I wanted to quickly mention before I give you and we finish my facts and figures, there's some great facts and figures for you. I think people are no. I tend to look for your facts and figures. Of course they are. It's becoming a postbag. Absolutely. It's becoming a sports after feature. I wanted to, I meant to say it, yeah, I had some sort of new stories. I just wanted to flag up. And I'm not going to speak about them in any detail, because I've tweeted some from our Red or Yellow pod today. But just a few things. And firstly, I tweeted today the story about the Arsenal versus IACs, women's Champions League game. When I heard this, we did see about that. No. Having said that, you know, you turn up and provide there are goals there and pitch ups, okay? You could play. Well, the Arsenal women, Marseille warming up, thought, this goal doesn't quite feel right. And it was 10 centimeters too short. How is that possible? Well, because they can play with that size goals in the touch league. Right. But for UEFA had to abide by the IFAB laws. So they had to change the goalposts. Absolutely. And the Arsenal coach says it's never been all his years. They've come across situations like that. But he said it was obvious to him as there was sort of, not bad, it was obvious to the goalkeeper he suddenly felt he was able to touch the crossbow without much difficulty. That's first story. And I tweeted that, so he can go and find that. Yeah, I was just saying it. The second one I tweeted is somebody I follow on Twitter, it's a chat called Craig Braatt. And his Twitter name is Craig Braatt, B-I-A-A-D-W-T. And he posted some footage from his brother, his brother placed football in the States. And it looks like it's a amateur level league. And the referee gave a handball and gave a penalty. But what the referee had failed to spot, or if he hadn't failed to spot it, didn't I sound like a loser for a second? It was an attack. It was the attack. [LAUGHTER] And so Craig, who is, if I remember correctly, the media officer for Crawley Town Football Club here in the UK, he was tweeted's outrage at the refereeing standards. And finally, the third thing I was going to mention, Jackie Oatley, who-- Yeah. A lot of people will follow. But she tweeted this week a couple of things. One is a quote from the Man City Women's Manager, who was asked his opinion about a blatant handball in the box, when they were defending. And his response was, well, yeah, hit his hand. Hit her hand. But the ball was going over the goal. That's only to say-- Does the handball was Canadian people? Yeah. The worrying thing about that as well is Steph Houghton, who the ex-ingling captain is clearly complaining about the referee about the decision as well. And it's like, no, it's definitely a handball. If everybody wants to the laws of football, not just the referees, it would be so helpful because the problem goes on. If the manager then goes back and says, what a ridiculous decision. The referee gave that handball. The ball was going over the crossbar, and fans go away thinking, oh, God, the referee's terrible. And if every just understood the laws a bit better, would be a lot happier. I used to-- I used to listen to 606 quite a lot on my way home from games and stuff. And it used to drive me insane listening to-- what's his name? Robbie Savage trying to interpret what referees would do in a while. Oh, I know. Simply because-- And I think anyone who talks about football in the media, IA Punder, if their job is a Punder, they should go and do a bloody referees course. Well, it's obviously the length of the laws, because often when things arise and things are not matched the day, they will quote the law. And you often see the sort of look of surprise in people's faces when they suddenly realize what the law is. Alan Shurrow's something dumbstruck. Right, so we've got about, I think, probably a few minutes to be to bombard you with my fun facts. About plans. Law number three. And it's really-- That's right. --substitutions. Oh, sorry. So substitutions have only been a thing in football for only 170 years. And the first ever mention of them was from a matching 1863 between Charter House and old confusions, where the match report said afterwards, the number of parents of some old confusions made it necessary to provide three substitutes. And that's the first actual reference there is at all in football. What is absolutely fascinating? When do you think it was that the professional game started using substitutions? I am so good during these time lines. I know. You're always at least out by several decades. I'm going to go 1961. Well, that's not what that's happening. Yes. No, they started being used in the professional game. Can you believe it? In the qualifiers for the 1954 World Cup? I was going to say, I know they were in place in the 1966 World Cup. That's the first professional substitution. And interestingly, although most countries around the world started introducing substitutions and professional game in the 1950s as a consequence of that, the FA resisted into all mid-60s, once it was season of 65, 66s, at the FA selling to using substitutes. How did you know I found even more baffling? Even more baffling. Did you know that substitutions were only allowed for injuries? Oh, really? So it was only an hour for injuries. And so there's some absolutely amazing stories, such as the 1956 FA Cup Final. The man, Siddi Golki, broke his neck and couldn't really play into the end of the game. Yeah. I could believe that. 1959 Cup Final. I had broke his leg. He went off. Obviously no substitutions allowed. The team were 2-0 down, 2-0 up at that point, and managed to win actually with 10 players, 1, 2, 1. And fascinating facts, extra fact there. The player who broke their leg was Elf and John's cousin. Oh, what do you know? That is a facelift. I've almost finished my Final Fantasy. Um, what was I going to say? Oh, yes. So any injuries initially, but that changed in 1966, the '67s and '68s, and in the UK, and the first time that you allowed to make tactical substitutions in World Cup was Mexico in 1970. Wow. That is interesting. And Final-- But no, it's mad, isn't it? I just assumed substitutions for substitutions. And also there must be a lot of feigning of injuries. How did you make the determination about-- Especially back then. Why is injured? I mean, sometimes the sort of leg hanging off is obvious. But I'd hate to be-- I'd hate to be the team who played the week off that that man's city goalkeeper. He's like, oh, I've really hurt my ankle. Well, excuse me. You ain't broke your neck, so you've got to carry on playing. But some Final Facts. So some famous examples of substitutions changed in the game. I think the most famous one is one of Olig and Assault Shots. Olig and Assault Shots. Manu won or down the European Cup Final. I think it was against Bayern Munich. They brought on two substitutions, sharing him, who scored. And Solschar, who scored in the 93rd minute, so the two sub came on. And with two Final Fount Facts about Olig and Assault Shots, are-- Firstly, he was the first Premiership referee to do five substitutions at one go. So that was the first Premiership manager, not referee. Sorry, first membership manager. Five sub-subs in one go. Quintuple and substitution. And finally, he holds a record for being the only substitution. Perhaps he would come on and scored four goals in a top-right game of football. Yeah, that was a good game. He's also one of the nicest guys in football. You know, of all that, as fascinating as those facts were, I think we need to-- We need to compress how many there were. We need to come up with jingle, don't we? Ed's fascinating facts. That's what it's all put on to turn off. All the kept going through my head was-- So in like 1916 or, you know, one on Christmas day, they played that game without substitutes. Yeah, it doesn't sound that way shorter players though, but-- Yeah, I don't have that. It also wasn't a sposo for the edge game football, though. All right, I guess that's a bad idea. It's probably just a kick about in the moment. But I was very relieved to have an article online about some fun facts about substitution. So interesting, yeah. Otherwise, we would have been struck. Oh, I like this fascinating facts. I'm glad to enjoy this. Awesome. So I suppose we just need to round it off. We need to say thank you for listening and for getting this far into it. So thank you for those people who've texted in and messages through the Twitter account. There were other questions that came in. And we'll try and answer those individuals. We can't sort of do with them all on the podcast unfortunately. But thank you very much for the guy that emailed in. That was a really, really good question to ask. Get in touch with us questions or just observations or comments or anything else. I just want to talk about that email me. Redo Yellow
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on our Instagrams or Twitter's or Facebook or whatever. - Absolutely. - We're happy to hear from you. Oh, and the other thing I was gonna say is thank you to everybody who shared the podcast. So far, I reached out to a few people, the referee forum and people like that. And they all shared it for us, which meant an awful lot. And it's actually growing quite considerably, which is pretty awesome. - Yeah. - And we were to appreciate that. - Yeah. So our plays are really high and stuff. It's doing really well. So look, if you know a friend who you think might value the podcast, please share it with them. Please share it with your referee associations or whatever. And yeah, hopefully we're helping to some degree to help you do better on this football pitches. - And finally, just a bit of a tease for people next week. Next week is the thrilling subject of the player's equipment. - Oh, Shimpads. I love Shimpads. - Shimpads. Exactly. So that's looking forward to next time. - Right. - Enjoy the best of your day. - I will see. - Have a lovely sleep. I hope the arm gets better. No more white riding for you. - And we'll get another one of the recording podcasts. And yeah, I hope you have a lovely week as well, my friend. And thank you for listening. - Bye. Ciao. - Thank you for making it to the end of another episode of Red or Yellow. You're clearly a very fit listener. May I gently remind you to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Tell all your friends. And don't forget to please share it with any referee and groups that you may have. Good luck on the fields out there this week. And if you have any questions, please make sure you send them into us on social media. Voice notes, or written questions would be brilliant. And we will of course include them in the podcast. Have the most wonderful day. Ciao, ciao. (upbeat music)
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