The LinkedIn Algorithm Just Changed Everything: Richard van der Blom on 360 Brew, Credibility Scores & Why 0.1% of Users Are Destroying Your Reach

Welcome everybody to the Power Brand Podcast. This is where we amplify the voices shaping the feature of leadership, technology, and human influence. I am your host, Grant McGar, and today, we are joined by someone whose work has transformed the way millions of professionals show up on LinkedIn and in the digital world. My guest is the global authority on social selling, digital trust, and LinkedIn strategy, a man whose annual algorithm insights reporting has been downloaded over six million times. He's a trainer of over 300,000 professionals and a keynote speaker trusted by organizations across five continents. He's also the founder of Just Connecting Hub, the visionary behind the tribe community, and one of the most influential voices shaping how we understand trust and visibility online. So please welcome Richard Vanderblom to the Power Brand Podcast. >> Well, Grant, first of all, thanks for having me and that was an epic introduction. I mean, I've had many, but this was really epic and it also made me think that indeed, I have been quite busy over the past years, especially on LinkedIn, yes. So amazing numbers and again, thank you for having me looking forward to this conversation. >> Absolutely. We're going to dive right in. I mean, you just dropped the 2025 algorithm insights report. People wait every year to read these things. I mean, your latest blog that I saw as your post, you're talking about the arc of LinkedIn over time, in seven worlds that you show that they're golden age and where they're at now. You've seen how this has changed the way thousands of professionals think about visibility on LinkedIn. Here's my first question for you. What's the biggest shift in trust signals this year that most people still don't fully understand? >> Well, I think that's directly one of the maybe key questions and also key challenges of LinkedIn at the moment. I think whenever I'm on stage, Grant, I always have one particular slide I like to use, and it's a question for the audience where I say, "What's the keyword in all successful human interactions?" Not necessarily in business. I mean, even in your private relationships, what's the keyword and obviously, that keyword is trust because with that trust, you don't sell your products, you don't find your next job and for sure, you will never find your next partner in life because if there's no trust, there's no commitment. You just mentioned my post from today where I explained the seven eras, and personally, I think that if I look back to say eight, nine, maybe 10 years ago, LinkedIn, trust was key. I mean, there was no AI. The algorithm was not as complex as now, meaning simply, if LinkedIn told you you have 10,000 views, it actually meant that 10,000 people had seen your content, not bots, no AI tools, people. I think that we're on a crossroad. It's another article I wrote in my newsletter last week saying LinkedIn is on crossroads because I've seen in the last months a few, for me, valuable creators, leave the platform or at least become less active on the platform. Because of a few things that are happening, the algorithm is being tweaked by LinkedIn in a way we've never seen before, leading to less results, less visibility, people getting frustrated, but that's not the main reason. The main reason why they are leaving is that they are feeling that their words are going into the void because of all the AI tools, AI commenting tools, AI reading tools. I think that's a really important signal that LinkedIn should really take into account in a very serious way because if we lose trust in the platform, if I send you a message on LinkedIn and I lose trust that you personally will read it, you personally will respond to it, then I think it's the end of the platform as we know it today. Do a little return away. I mean, nobody is there to speak or listen to robots or to get automated messages where you simply know instantly feel this is not coming from the person I knew. What you said there, and I want the audience to really lean in on this, this is very, very important. I call it in the word responsible use of AI. I've been in information technology 25, 30 plus years. I understand about technology adoption and there's different levels to this. Some people adopted early, some people really lagged on adoption. It takes time to really tweak and get to that sweet spot on the use of different tool sets. I think we're still in that infancy of AI like, "Hey, it's cool. I'm trying and I'm doing this and doing that." Understanding that human-to-human interaction is still king, it really is. People like talking to other human beings and if you think you're talking to a bot, remember a bot is not a conscious thing. It's a string of mathematical principles. So all of a sudden, to your point, you feel like you're talking to the void. I think that's a problem that we need to address, right? Yeah, I fully agree. Also, we need to be aware that if we talk about the LinkedIn user, it's not existing. There is no LinkedIn user. There are different groups with different behavior that have a different influence on our audience in general. To give you an example, there are less than 0.1% of LinkedIn members that are using LinkedIn and AI and automation tools in such a way that they impact almost 30% of all conversations and postal LinkedIn. So imagine that 0.1% is so active, call them the frontrunners, early adopters of AI, whatever you like to call them. But they're so active in testing this new, often automated outreach, automated messages through AI posting. But they're so influential because they are so active that they impact 30% of all conversations and postal LinkedIn, which means the big audience, which you just mentioned, which are still in the early stage of, "Hey, actually, that's pretty cool, you know? ChatGPT can really help me become a better writer or can create a better hook." They don't have, we don't give them the time to adopt and to feel safe with the technology because the frontrunners are already targeting them with all kind of, yeah, I'm just going to call it like this, sleazy tactics, automated tactics, eroding the trust that our audience has on LinkedIn. I recently spoke to a CEO of a very big software company when we discussed our LinkedIn partnership. And one of the things he said, "Richard, I know this is important for a sales team, but I myself have stopped checking LinkedIn on a daily base. I do it once a week and the first thing I need to do is delete 40 in-mails from salespeople who I've never spoken to, who lack relevance, they haven't built any trust and they're trying to pitch me something." And that's exactly the reason why I don't check LinkedIn daily anymore because it's simply not fun, it doesn't add value. And that's a place where we all should not want to go with this still very important and potentially very successful network. What you're saying is so important. That's where responsibility has to come in and governance has to come in. LinkedIn has to look at that like, "Hey, are we diluting the platform? Are we taking away for the purpose of what the platform was there?" It was for business people to truly network amongst themselves, to showcase leadership, to actually bring value to other people that are interested in these topics, these subjects, to learn more, to get more information. But if we turn it into an automated bot-driven, ad-centric platform, people will turn away. I know I do the same thing. I turn on my LinkedIn, I see my DM, I get five or six completely useless sales messages, no understanding. And that part, I want to say this directly to the people that are doing this. If you're, let's just say, you're at a networking event and you come up, and I come up to Richard, right? And Richard immediately starts pitching me on his product and service. I don't know him for a matter. What's going to be my opinion of him? Now, he might have a great product and a great service. But that is so out of line for a true conversation to take place, to then get intimacy of trust as you just stated. And then begin to say, hey, opening the door and like, I do want to know more about you. And then then at that point, you've been invited to give me your elevator pitch. And then we can discuss, like, that sounds interesting. Let's take this to another level. I think that's a misstep for salespeople. It's a misstep. And if you automate the whole process, remember, algorithms have no context. They deal with their program. You're going to push people away and not pull people in. That's my opinion. Yeah, I agree. Although it's fascinating. You know, sometimes I have, I find myself having too much time. And then I take up the challenge and I'm going to actually respond to the bad outreach. So I get, you know, and I get like, like you, I get many, like even this morning, I was called, hey, Robert. I mean, my name is Richard. If you can't even get my name right, I mean, where do you start in building trust? Anyway, so every now and then I respond to them and I try to challenge them to rethink their outreach approach. Okay. And I'm saying things like, hey, you've sent me a message. I do not know you. You haven't mentioned anything about my content. And like you did in the beginning of this conversation, there was so much hoax you can find by going to my profile. I mean, I don't need a compliment, but show that you have done your homework. Know who I am. You know, it's, it's so easy to connect with me on a, on a human level. Anyway, so I respond and then eight out of 10 cases, I don't hear anything. Okay. Because I'm just being a pain in the ass because, you know, normal people like you, for example, they just delete the conversation. Like I'm not going to respond. So if they get a response and it's this, you know, crazy Dutch guy saying like, Hey, you should maybe rethink your outreach strategy. I think they feel annoyed or they go like, nah, you know, delete last week. No, I'm lying. Two weeks ago, I got a clearly automated message from someone. I really know a Dutch guy. He's an entrepreneur. I value his entrepreneurship. I mean, he's built a seven figure company from scratch, but he knows me. I mean, we have had several meetings. I visit his office like five, six years ago and he sent me a clearly automated message. So I reach out to him and I say like, how come being connected with our history that we know each other, we've discussed business that you sent me an automated message. I mean, it's putting me off. I feel like I'm targeted and that you're not honoring the relationship we already built. You know, and it works opposite. I get a bad feeling about it. Like, you see me just like any regular contact you have on LinkedIn and his response, you know, it was bizarre. He literally said, Richard, I'm sorry to have annoyed you, but I've sent out 3000 messages in the last week and we have landed 28 meetings. Wow. Okay. And then I went like, okay. Okay, cool. So you have sent out 3000 messages to connections like me with whom you already build a relationship. You just said that your conversion rate is below 1%, below 1%, 28 meetings, 3000 messages. You have 2992 people who either have not responded, deleted the message and some of them might even have deleted the connection or even worse. They're never going to do business with you again because you just, like I felt, you just pretended like they're a sitting duck to be sold something instead of a valuable relationship. He disagreed. You know, he said, you know, I don't think people will disconnect with me or see me differently and it works. And then he mentioned obviously time. He said, I simply don't have the time to reach out to 3000 people on a, you know, tailor-made, hyper-personalized way. So, you know, then again, I said, why would you reach out to 3000? Why not start with 30, build relationships? And if you get a, you know, a conversion rate of 10%, which is, you know, I often reach 20%. So that means I only need to reach out to 60. And I have the same conversion than you with 3000 automated messages. Just to give you an example that a lot of these people, they are well aware that what they are doing brings a lot of negativity. But they're just playing a big numbers game. And then look at their agenda and they go like, hey, my tool just sent out 3000 messages. I didn't do scratch from it and I got 28 meetings booked on my calendar. So who am I to discuss with them that they should hyper-personalize every message, follow up manually? I mean, we're living in a different, in a different era where time is most precious asset. And a lot of the sales people, they have so ridiculously high KPIs that they just are on a so much fresher that the only thing they can do is use LinkedIn as a spam machine. So I get where they're coming from. The only thing is you do so much damage to your reputation and trust that in the long end you're losing the game. I'm 100% sure about that. Just do a real case study on that. What you just said. How did Grant Magal get in touch with you, Richard Vanderbilt, how did that happen? To your point, I was following you on LinkedIn. I saw the information that you had put out. I began to engage with your post. You then began to engage with my replies. There was some, some trust and authenticity taking place. We then took it to the DM like, hey, I would be interested in talking potentially of coming to the North America and St. Croix to talk about your LinkedIn expertise, how we can then get to a higher level. Then we took it to an email level. We had conversations. And now here we are now. This is our third, fourth interaction. We kind of know each other. If I had sent you a bunch of spam messages, I don't think we would have this conversation right now. No, no, no, and it's a perfect example. And the funny thing is, I receive, and I'm not being arrogant here, it's just like, I receive so many comments. I receive so many DMs, but I still remember the first comment you left on my post because it was authentic. It was about me. It was a compliment on my content with an invitation to discuss further in a one-on-one goal. And it was done in such, again, a hyper-personalized way that it instantly built trust and I instantly got triggered to respond, which I did. So I remember we had a few conversations on LinkedIn, then took it to email, and yeah, like you said, we are now in our third or fourth conversation. The thing is that you can, it takes you several moments. It takes you several messages, several meetings to build trust at a level that people will actually start maybe not even buying but becoming interested to buy from you or to request some services, but you can lose that instantly with one bad message in one single second. And that's also something that's very important. Everything you do nowadays on LinkedIn, we discuss the algorithm, like every comment you make that can be seen by your audience, your peers, your future clients, every post you make, everything you put out there, it can harm your credibility so much faster than it will build because building trust is a long game in the end. It's important to do, but it takes several meetings and counters or whatever new conversations. So that's also something I always say to the people we coach, don't go for the quick win. It's not existing on LinkedIn, you might have a lucky shot, but in the end, especially if you're in B2B sales or every B2B sales person that has an average deal size, let's say, above 50,000 grand or say 50,000 dollars, you don't get those deals instantly on LinkedIn. I mean, you can have a lucky shot, but it's always, you need to make an effort to build a relation, to be present for a longer time until you get your first one-on-one meeting. And that's something a lot of people forget, they're still sitting there as this B2B sales spam machine where you can send out a lot of messages and a few lucky shots, fill your agenda and hope you close the deal. It's not working like that. It never did, by the way. The only thing is, previously, we never had the tools to scale that fast. We didn't have automation, we didn't have AI. And now, with those tools, we think that we can bypass all these elements and ingredients for trust. It's not true. Now you're getting into a lane that I think a lot of people want to hear about, and that's these vanity metrics, lights, ears, comments, just because you look like, "Wow, I've got this enormous reach, I've got all these followers, I've got all these connections," and they fail because you're bigger in certain aspects of vanity metrics, but are you actually effective in the goal that you've set out, business development, career development? Is that actually happening? What's the true measurement? And I'm asking you this question, what is the true measurement of success do you feel with social selling on LinkedIn? Yeah, that's a very interesting question because a lot of people talk about vanity metrics, and they mention likes, comments, views, impressions of vanity metrics. I partly agree because, for me, visibility, which is measured in impressions of views, is a value metric. It's not even a vanity metric. Why? Because without views, there is no engagement. Without engagement, there's no conversation. Without conversation, there's no conversion. It all starts with becoming visible. So if we would say right from the start, "I'm posting on LinkedIn, but I don't care if I get 50,000 views or 500 views," that's BS. That's simply not true because you will not get the same visibility amongst your potential clients if you are having limited views. The thing is, I don't think that you should have any KPIs on those things. No KPIs on how many average views do I want to have, how many average likes, because in the end, we're talking about conversion. So yes, views is important. So you should have an eye on how many views are my posts getting. Can I improve that number? The real metrics, the real KPIs for me are, for example, incoming direct messages from your target audience based on your post, incoming invites from your target audience. A lot of people who we work with, a lot of leaders who I work with, they find that after tweaking their profile, their content strategy, even their engagement strategy, they are getting invited by much more people that they notice are directly relevant for their business. Peers, influencers, potential clients, people from the industry. Because the more relevant you are, obviously, the more pool you will have to the right people. So incoming direct messages, incoming invites from your target audience, you can measure conversion if you work with things what we call low commitment offers on your profile. So if you have, for example, a newsletter where people can sign up. If you have, I don't know, some people have like a free consultancy call of 15 minutes. If the right people are signing up for your newsletter, if the right people are booking these calls, it means that you are attracting the attention from the right audience. And those are the real metrics. Marketing also wants to measure how much traffic do we get on our website coming from LinkedIn. For me, and this is where I have a lot of discussion, sometimes even verbal fights with the marketing department, because it's old school thinking that you want to drive people away from the place where they feel safe, where they want to be, they link the network to your website, where they know they're going to be targeted. They know you're going to position yourself that you want to sell them something. So why not have that conversation and why not build that trust first on LinkedIn before directing them to your website, make them ready to buy or convert before they go to your website. Anyway, back to the metrics. So no to likes, comments, reposts, it's all nice, but yes to incoming invites, incoming direct messages, conversion and low commitment offers that you can see are coming directly from LinkedIn. Those are the most important metrics. I like that. I just saw this happen for me personally. When I do a LinkedIn live, I'm on a live podcast or webinar, I get a carry of people then wanting to connect with me or send me messages and I know that came directly from that content. So there's direct correlation there to what is happening that and you know that hey, they must really like that. There was meaningful engagement and that from there, now you've got trust like ability, no like and trust is very, very good. And they see one thing I love about that is that you're live. They know you're not a bot. So there's some things within the LinkedIn platform that's still a very relevant. LinkedIn Live is a great one because they see like, hey, it's very difficult to simulate an AI avatar for 30 minutes talking to other people about sensitive information. This is very, very important. That's in general why video content, so LinkedIn Live is also video, but video content performs much better when it comes to trust building and in the end conversion than written content. I mean, you can write your post, you can have the amazing document post, infographic, share everything, but if people see you, hear you, it builds instant trust, at least if you say to write things obviously, but video is should be a very important pillar in your content strategy, especially for leaders, special. And you recently highlighted the importance of second and third degree engagement. My question is, why do you think strangers to your platform, who you are now carry more algorithmic weight than our inner circle? And how should executives adjust their strategy based on this information? I think it's obviously a tweak that LinkedIn made in their algorithm. I think it has something to do with if people who haven't heard of you before your last post are not only willing to read your post, but are also willing to leave a like, a comment or a repost. It means that somebody with whom you didn't have any trust is now drawn to your post in a way that it adds relevance, its value for them. And a lot of people on LinkedIn, they have what I call their inner engagement circle. I myself have it every, every time I always post in the morning, every time I post, I can give you on a paper the 30 names that are amongst the first 50 people to comment. I know that, you know, those are my ambassadors. I really love what they are doing for my brand. I mean, they, they elevate my, my visibility as well, but LinkedIn knows that they know that each one of us has an inner circle and maybe it doesn't even matter what I post. They will simply like or comment because it comes from Richard. But now, if somebody in their network who just seen my post because of their engagement sees me for the first time, spends time reading or watching my post and then engages, it means that there must be something in that post that is so relevant, that adds value for that person that he's willing to engage. And that's why that engagement has a higher impact on the acceleration of, of views, the growth of impressions than your inner circle. And I don't know if you have seen my latest post on a new element in the LinkedIn algorithm, which is called 360 Brood. It comes from a meta and that explicitly says that LinkedIn is working now for individuals. It doesn't exist for company pages with what they call interest clusters, which means if your profile and your content is aligned around your main topic of expertise, they can now position yourself in an interest cluster. Okay. So for example, if all my posts have a link with social selling, if all my posts share valuable information for salespeople on how to use LinkedIn in a better way, then my interest cluster will be salespeopleB2B. Which means now LinkedIn is going to show my post to more people outside my first degree, second and third, coming from the interest cluster B2B sales. So you get less reach, we all get less reach, but you get more relevance reach because of your interest cluster. Now, if I'm getting nervous about my numbers, if I'm seeing that my reach is going down and I just see an infographic being published on LinkedIn by someone in, let's say, I don't know, leadership, and it's about the 10 leadership tips for good leaders. And I see that this post is getting mass extraction. What a lot of people did in the last years, they would literally take that infographic because they know it goes viral, publish it themselves and say, "Hey, I just found this great infographic about 10 leadership and you got a huge amount of reach." However, all the people that engage with that post are probably not your clients because they're not salespeople, in my case. Secondly, now you are confusing LinkedIn because they thought you were all about social selling, in my case. Now I'm sharing this leadership post. And this is very important for people to be successful in 2026. If you confuse LinkedIn and they cannot position yourself in an interest cluster, you will see less and less performance of your content because LinkedIn is not going to help you anymore. So one of the key strategies for 2026 should be stay in lane, okay? 80% of your post should be around your main topic of expertise. That's golden nugget. That was really good information to understand and know, stay in your lane, know your area, expertise, thought leadership, very, very important. And we're starting to also see this little blue button that's going in at the top of your post now. This is B-O-O-S-T Boost. What do you think about Boost? Is it boosting within that target cluster? Is it a money grab for LinkedIn? Is it good, bad, or indifferent? What do you think? Well, it was a long-awaited feature to come. LinkedIn is always late to the party with everything. They were late with hashtags, they were late with LinkedIn stories, and now they have given us the opportunity to boost our post. First of all, a lot of people and a lot of LinkedIn specialists think that LinkedIn over the past 18 months have deliberately reduced organic reach to now launch the boost feature as a solution. So they're taking away reach that is so free, and they're giving it back to you if you pay. Okay, so a lot of people say now we know why they are like, you know, suppressing reach because they come with this feature where I can pay, and LinkedIn is going to help me to get more views. It might be true, it might be true, it would be a wise idea in terms of mechanisms and how it works, but for me, it's simply an evolution of the platform. We had boost posts on your company page. We have a lot of people, self-entrepreneurs, solo entrepreneurs that don't have a company page, and they wanted also to boost their voice on LinkedIn, so LinkedIn just gave us that opportunity. I have mixed feelings, I've tried it now two times with some posts. The fun thing is, is that you can actually help LinkedIn with the interest clusters, so you can actually tell them, this is my target audience, this is my preferred region, and this is my budget, obviously, and I saw a sharp increase in reach. I mean, I went from, I think it was 18,000 organic to about 45,000 after boosting for, I think it was 150 US dollars. The thing is that I got two and a half times more reach. I only got 1.3 times more engagement and conversion, so it looks mainly aimed at increasing visibility, but since they push it towards people who have never heard of you, you don't get the same, we're back on the word trust again, Grant, because now they are pushing it outside your bubble, which is good in terms of visibility, but people will never buy from you or request a proposal or whatever if it's their first post that they see, and they also see that this post is boosted, by the way, so they know they're being targeted, so I've tried it twice. It's fun to get more numbers, to get more visibility. I'm not sure yet if this is going to be the answer for people that are looking for more conversions. That's important knowledge, important knowledge, and I see that to your point, like when he's LinkedIn Navigator and that you can then push a message, a DM to someone like even outside of your circle, and the person knows that he came to that platform. Every time I see that, I usually delete those because I know it's just a sales call more or less that someone's just trying to pitch me on something or other. Definitely. And it's a signal. I don't think they say it, so that's why you want to be a number one connection because you don't get that kind of thing. So you have said that LinkedIn is no longer just a content platform. It's an executive positioning ecosystem. I want to know from you, what does that mean for organizations that want to elevate their brand and their leadership? So the good news is that I still see LinkedIn as the number one platform for executives to show their leadership and to position themselves as thought leaders, but also to lead their companies in getting more visibility on LinkedIn. I mean, we've seen and it's obvious that companies where board members C level are above average active on LinkedIn, we see that also the employees are doing more things on LinkedIn. They're doing the right things. They're having a very good vibe and they're getting more results. Basically, that's it. So what is very important for leaders nowadays is that they understand a bit how the ecosystem works, but also how people are looking for content, are giving value to content, because a lot of them in the past are referring to the marketing department saying, we have this great company page and they're responsible and nobody gives anything about your company page. I'm preventing myself to swear on your podcast, but nobody goes to your company page. Nobody's interested in corporate communication on LinkedIn. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I'm just wanting them to make a statement. This has to do exactly, but if I can follow this thought leader, which could be the CEO or the CEO or whoever is a thought leader in the company, I can follow this person. This person is creating this authentic LinkedIn post. On average, they get 12 times more engagement, eight times more views, six times more followers than a company page. Now imagine that it's not only the CEO, but they have a second layer of thought leaders in the company as well, having an organic, authentic content strategy. So instead of one main channel that nobody cares about, that nobody wants to follow your company page, now you have seven, eight, maybe 10 additional channels by having several thought leaders, having an authentic content strategy on LinkedIn, engaging with their audience, growing the networks with peers, people from the industry, future clients, current clients. That's a huge, huge social value you have there. It's huge in terms of visibility and in terms of relevance, basically that. What you said there is so important. In my new book, as you see behind me over there, First Flight, I talk about rising above the algorithms by building a presence that's so rooted in your vision, your values, and your undeniable thought leadership. I want to hear from you because they're always tweaking these algorithms. This is an allegory book, it's not just a textbook, it's a narrative, but I talk about how you overcome these algorithmic platforms through being authentic because you can't outspend somebody, you just talked about that. There's paid ads out there, there's people that are gaming the system, how can you maintain your authentic voice, your authentic reputation, you're trying to build your personal brand that even the algorithms can't suppress. What would you say in your opinion? I think the most important part is to have a diversity within your content strategy, to make sure you have the time to drop your content yourself, so not to turn to AI with one line and say write me a post on modern leadership and then copy-paste it directly. Usually with the release of 360 brew in the LinkedIn algorithm, it detects AI patterns. Whenever AI patterns are detected in comments or in post, they are suppressed in reach because they're less authentic. LinkedIn is also working on what they call internally a credibility score for each member. The higher your credibility score, the higher your reaches because the more authentic you are. What I always advise to leaders is to stay away from playing safe because, and I do understand that in some industries, companies have guidelines on what people can say or not say on LinkedIn. I know that, for example, a CEO of a financial institution, a bank or insurance company, cannot or pharma company, for example, cannot say the same things as this really cool CEO of this marketing PR company. I do understand that, but stay away from content that looks like it's written by a marketing department, I'm talking about the white papers, the very high quality articles, but mix it. You can share them, but mix it up with personal storytelling. Whenever I tell C-level people personal storytelling, they look at me like, "Oh, no, he's asking me to share what I had for dinner last night," and I said, "That's not what I mean with personal storytelling." But hey, you have been 20, 25 years in the business, you have been a leader of this company for 10 years. You must have had so many terrific stories of how the business evolved, your role, your learnings, your pitfalls. If you share those, those are so authentic. Human stories are still the most red post on LinkedIn. We all like to read stories, so that's one thing. A second pillar for leaders is leadership content. Lead me the way. Show me the way. Show me why I need to follow you because you exactly tell me what is happening in our industry, how should I respond. Sometimes people refer to it as educational content, but that might give away a certain relationship that I'm the teacher and you need to learn from me, but it's how to lead the way content. And then a very important pillar is co-creation, interaction. Whenever we see leaders co-create content with other leaders, and this could be, for example, an event, if they go, if you speak on a stage like we are going to do in Saint Croix on the US Virgin Islands, if those people connect and create a joint post, talk about their impressions together, maybe I quote you or maybe I quote the other speaker, it blows up because it's dynamic. It's not just my opinion, it's the opinion of a lot of like, not as real people. So co-creation is a very important pillar for leaders. And then the last one is also, we refer to it as industry-related content. So now it's not about your business, it's not about your company, but what is happening in your industry and how do you as a leader respond to that? So now, you know, if things are going to happen in my industry, I might not have the answers, I might not have the direction, but hey, if I follow you, if I read your post, at least you give me your thoughts on what is wise to do. And it gives me the opportunity to either follow your way or choose my own path. But industry-related content coming from leaders, again, is so much more valuable than just publish an industry report on a company page. 100%. In general, or in short, Grant, it's the dynamic, it's the diversity in your content mix that makes it more attractive for different types of audience to start following you. I think you're absolutely right. Everybody consumes information differently. Yes. They do. Some people like to read, some people like video, some people like audio. I came up with my book, it was available in the audio part. I'm a podcaster, it should be available in audio, right? People like to listen to other way to work and that type of thing. What modalities of giving your message, but the authentic message, I think we undervalue the power of story and narrative. So it's just not sending information out. What we have learned in our now AI-centric world is that AI is very good at data and information. What is not very good at is context, when it comes to applied knowledge and wisdom. We supply that. And that is what is attractive. Emotional intelligence, situational awareness is so important, but then you can have a, I use AI as a platform to elevate, to amplify that context, that wisdom that's so important. You just mentioned, as right now, we're preparing for a tech and leadership summit in Vancouver, US Virgin Islands next spring. And why? Because we're shaping conversations around trust. So big right now, influence, human-centered AI, I call H-A-I, and leadership vision. We want to invite the world in to talk to how do we utilize these platforms to work with us and not against us. I want to first, this is my last question, maybe, I have one more after that, but I'm going to definitely ask this question, based on your global experience. What conversations do you believe leaders must have right now to prepare for this next era of digital influence and let us know how often does LinkedIn change these algorithms in your experience on a yearly basis? Yeah, so just start to answer with your last question. Nobody knows, exactly. Nobody knows. And also, if you talk with, I have a lot of contact with people working at LinkedIn offices, over the world, San Francisco, Singapore, and Europe, a lot of people who sell LinkedIn products, they don't even have a clue, you know, because it's a product development department. Is there an engineer team that is working on the algorithm? It's also a myth that there is one single LinkedIn algorithm. This is something that we mentioned in our latest report. There's no single algorithm. There are multiple mechanisms. Some of them are working on your feet. Some of them are working on your rank. How do your profile rank? Some of them are working on your network. What we are witnessing at the moment, which started already at the end of '24, the serious downfall in reach is one of the biggest algorithm tweaks we have seen in the last five years, especially now also with the introduction of 360 Brew, which was introduced in January, but we've started to notice the impact since May, June this year. In general, I always say to people, that's why we do a bi-annual report. There are two moments in the year that LinkedIn analyzes what's happening, because they're also responding with algorithm tweaks to our human behavior. The more people that find ways to gamify the algorithm, the next thing LinkedIn will probably do is make it impossible to gamify the algorithm in that specific way. A lot of tweaks are also meant to keep it almost like a fair platform, a fair game, where you really need to add value to get visibility instead of you need to exactly how to pose, you need to be an engagement pod, and you need to have all these manipulative tactics to stay alive on LinkedIn. We don't know, I would say really big shifts are not done on a yearly base, but little tweaks are almost done continuously. It's impossible to, I never advise people to chase the algorithm or to exactly want to know 100% what is going on. If you have basic knowledge and if you have the sources to stay up to date on the latest changes, that's enough, because you should always write for your human audience and never for your algorithm. Okay, so that's important to say. And your first question was about, what was your first question? I'm getting so enthusiastic about the algorithm grander, I forgot your first one. And what we're talking about there is just based on your experience, your global experience, the conversations that you believe leaders right now should prepare for this next era of digital influence. Yeah, that's it. It's an excellent question. I don't know if I have the right answer and the reason why is because you mention global as we have clients in Asia, we have clients in the Middle East, Europe, the Americas and some things are also cultural related. There are some countries where AI even posting on LinkedIn is not as obvious as for example it is in the US or in the Netherlands. And if we work, for example, with German based companies, they are much more prudent to publish on LinkedIn. They have more guidelines. They still have social media policies of 100 pages, whereas companies in the US are much more open like, okay, it's your profile. We understand that you have a common sense, do your thing and if something goes wrong, we will let you know. It's the other way around. Like we will facilitate you, we will empower you if you do something wrong, hey, we will let you know. Instead of we do not want you to publish this before marketing, legal, have a proof which is not the way you want to go. AI is not going to, it's not a hype, okay. I remember that one of my first discussions back two years ago, this is a hype. No, it's not a hype, it's here. It's not only changing the way how we communicate, it's changing the way how we work, it's changing the way how we receive news, it's also changing the way how we act based on new insights. So AI is here to stay in all, all over our life literally. I'm not talking just about LinkedIn, I think we don't even realize how much AI is already part of our lives, but it's important to understand how can we make use of AI in a way that it doesn't harm, again, the trust and credibility we have from a company to our clients or even to our stakeholders. So how can we remain authentic and how can we use AI as a tool to do things simply in a more professional, more efficient way, adding a human layer, that's even more important, but also doing it in a way that it skills our business because I really believe that AI can be an accelerator for every business when it's used in a very efficient way, but it needs the human layer, it needs the human approach, and I think that should be the discussion that leaders should have within the company with the legal apparel, with marketing, even with a sales team like, okay, every sales, every hiring of a new employee, like we said in the beginning of the discussion is based on trust. So how can we use these AI tools without eroding the trust and credibility we have for the clients? What are the sections in our company? Is it sales? Is it marketing? Is it the recruitment process where we can use smart AI tools to scale faster? Because I'm positive that when we understand how we can use AI and see better results that you get more people on board. And the more people you have on board, the better the discussion becomes within the company as well on how do we keep the human element in everything we do with AI. So yeah, if I need to explain it to maybe kindergarten kids, I would say, how can we become friends with AI without losing ourselves? That's it. I love it. I love it. Now this has been a great discussion. I only have one question to ask you. You've been on a lot of shows, you've been on a lot of stages. This is your first stage being on the follow brand podcast with me, Grant McGaw. How did you like your experience? It was wonderful. It was wonderful. You know, like I said in the beginning, I think we weren't recording. I like to do things off-grid. I like to do the things that are not scripted. And you know, sometimes you have silences, sometimes you say things that later on you might think, "Ah, I should have said it a different way, but it's pure. It's human. It builds trust." You said it. You said it best. I can't wait to see you, my friend, on the sandy beaches of St. Croix. Be on the lookout for that this coming spring. We're inviting the world. We've got to get on top of this. What you said right there is what I've been saying, AI and its maturity cycle. We're all on this new age of intelligent technology. In the use case for it, all of us are a part of it. And no one's using it absolutely correctly. No one's using it absolutely incorrectly. We've got to get to a point where we can scale with it and then we keep the human element. We amplify the human voice. I want to thank you so much. And before we let go, because you've got to try it out there, it's probably listening to us. That's your tribe. Let us know how to contact you and how we can engage with you further in the future. You want me to do it now, Grant? Sure. Before we go to my LinkedIn profile, my name is Richard van de Blom. You see in my featured section, there was a link to my community. It's called The Tribe. It's an exclusive community where we all share the same goal and that's basically grow our business in a human way by having smart LinkedIn strategies, tactics, supported by updates, data from, for example, the algorithm research. Also, we have a lot of cultural studies, like if you work international, we have three master classes a month and the price, it's a thousand euros a year. So I think it's about, I don't know, 11, maybe $1,200 a year. I mean, you have 35 live master classes. You have early access to all the reports and research we do. Even for me, it would be a no-brainer, but feel free to join. In my featured section, there's a link. If you have any questions, just drop me a message on LinkedIn. You are so valuable, my friend. You are helping us all to utilize these platforms at scale for business development, career development. I am all about that. I love when you're talking about the clusters that are being, I think LinkedIn is getting smarter. I'm starting to see the people that are engaging, people that say, "Hey, these suggestions that grant you should engage with or become friends with or follow such and such." And it's like, you know what? That was actually a good recommendation. I think they're getting it. It's not just so random, exactly becoming more specific, more precise in this interaction. I invite your entire audience to visit 5StarVenom. That's the number five. That is star. Be for brand, be for development, and for masters.com. See all the different episodes on all the different experts that we have in this field. I am so happy to have had you on the show, my friend. Thank you very much, Shayek Grant. The pleasure was all mine. Thank you. Bye-bye.